Z Cam's Super 35mm 6K camera for under $3K: the "Z Cam S6"

[superporpoise]

2 hours ago, androidlad said:

240fps is not the only thing that's coming ?

Where is this news at? In-camera LUT preview would be amazing as would setting shutter angle. Braw or similar would be literally the best thing ever, but I don't expect that.

[Mattias Burling]

7 hours ago, Jimmy G said:

If not "being only h.265", what would you have preferred? (i.e. RAW, H.264, ProRes, etc., etc.?)

 

16 hours ago, Anaconda_ said:

I thought they already had ProRes, but not at the high speeds in 4k.

 

Table comes from http://www.z-cam.com/e2/ in the Max Variable Frame Rate section. the PDF is Appendix 1.

 

[zerocool22]

8 hours ago, Jimmy G said:

If not "being only h.265", what would you have preferred? (i.e. RAW, H.264, ProRes, etc., etc.?)

def BRAW and then prores. But Zcam is not even thinking about implementing braw, they are going their own RAW route. Which at this point would involve using their own software to open the RAW files and convert them, which is a major flaw/pity. 

[IronFilm]

21 hours ago, Anaconda_ said:

On CVP, this camera is just over £3k, and the full frame version (f6) is only £100 more.

https://cvp.com/catalogue/category/cine+cameras/subcategory/z+cam+cine+cameras 

Interesting, I thought their FF cameras were going to be a minimum of $5K??

At the opposite end of the price spectrum, I'm curious about their cheapie E2C. 

Hasn't shipped yet has it?

Vs the more expensive E2, the E2C is meant to not just lack the higher FPS options, but I think the image is worse as well? Wonder what sensor they're using in the E2C?? Maybe it is the old GH4 sensor, but they're able to do the 10bit internal instead of external like the GH4 was. 

 

[IronFilm]

18 hours ago, zerocool22 said:

Im not hyped on the 6K let alone 8K, 1080p is even good enough for me. But its also the most affordable full frame RAW camera atm.   

Once the Nikon Z6 gets the raw video firmware update then it will be more affordable than the Z Cams. 

But for now, the most "affordable" option is a Kinefinity Mavo LF. 

 

10 hours ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

Fuji announced the XT3 will be getting 240fps this summer, which is a huge plus. 

WHOA!

I missed that news somehow. 

 

[zerocool22]

2 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Once the Nikon Z6 gets the raw video firmware update then it will be more affordable than the Z Cams. 
 

Have not been following the nikon Z6 news much, prolly on external recorder then or is it internal? If its internal it would be amazing, if we could use the 14 stops of DR. Then we might have a new winner, but lets wait and see. I dont have any nikon lenses though, looks like a adapter exists but no electrical contacts for EF. 

[IronFilm]

2 hours ago, zerocool22 said:

Have not been following the nikon Z6 news much, prolly on external recorder then or is it internal?

You'd use an Atomos Ninja V

[colepat]

Super interesting the option for micro 4/3 mount on it. Ala LS300 I'm assuming?

[DBounce]

3 hours ago, colepat said:

Super interesting the option for micro 4/3 mount on it. Ala LS300 I'm assuming?

It's an intriguing idea, but will it vignette?

[AlexTrinder96]

Unfortunately it looks like they have cancelled plans to release the S6 in MFT mount. The MFT mount would allow a speedbooster to be used -  also certain mirrorless only lenses (meike cine, fujinon zooms, slr magic primes) would have been mountable. 

Quote

 

[Update] I think I delivered wrong information. The correct information is, we are heading to exchangeable lens mount design now. We think it possible to do EF/PL mount exchangeable but M43 is of too short flange and it will be more sensitive. Considering the limitations of the issues below we won't spend time working on it. But it doesn't mean it's impossible for 3rd party.

Even with the exchangeable lens mount design, if it can't meet our requirements finally we will not encourage user to do this.

We made efforts to try to bring M43 to S35 version. It seems that M43 didn't consider active lock since beginning. If we revise the mount to active there is a lot of slim area. I don't think it's robust enough.

Since it can't do active lock and eND, we decided not continuously spending efforts on it.

 

A damn shame!

[KnightsFan]

On 6/7/2019 at 3:31 AM, IronFilm said:

Once the Nikon Z6 gets the raw video firmware update then it will be more affordable than the Z Cams.

Not if you include the cost of the recorder. But they are pretty close, depending on which media you use or if you find used prices.

 

53 minutes ago, AlexTrinder96 said:

Unfortunately it looks like they have cancelled plans to release the S6 in MFT mount

I am heartbroken! But they said they are looking into an interchangeable mount and that its possible a 3rd party could make a MFT option so there is still hope! When i saw the price drop i was so excited, but if you can't speed boost to FF it makes more financial sense to me to get the original E2 and speed boost that.

 

[andrgl]

On 6/6/2019 at 8:18 AM, Mattias Burling said:

I came very close to ordering the E2 this week. Was interested in the slowmotion.

But after some research there where a few things that was annoying, design wise. But the big deal breaker was the h265. God I would hate having to use that. If the slowmotion had been available in Prores I could have looked the other way on the, imo, weird connection placements.

Also the 240fps uses lineskipping. Lots of aliasing. Basically useless for deep focus.

Their cameras are not without their issues but offer great value for money.

 

I'm glad they are embracing positive lock lens mounts. If they add SDI next generation, their cameras will end up on a lot of productions.

[thebrothersthre3]

49 minutes ago, andrgl said:

Also the 240fps uses lineskipping. Lots of aliasing. Basically useless for deep focus.

Their cameras are not without their issues but offer great value for money.

 

I'm glad they are embracing positive lock lens mounts. If they add SDI next generation, their cameras will end up on a lot of productions.

The cool thing about them is that they are making full use of the sensor. Where as other companies gimp their cameras for no good reason. At least we can use the 240fps lineskipping crap recording if we so choose. ?

[zerocool22]

So the nikon z6 is now around 12 stops. but with the raw update beeing raw and all, and photo's are 14 stops of DR. We will get 14 stops of DR out of the nikon Z6 right?  Which would make this a 2,5K $ FF raw camera(with the atamos recorder included). Which is even only half the price of the zcam F6. This could be the next best thing and blows everything in the near range out of the water, or am I missing something here. What are the downsides of the Z6, as I never used it or saw it really? (I have a shitton EF glass, are there decent adapters out there?)

[thebrothersthre3]

35 minutes ago, zerocool22 said:

So the nikon z6 is now around 12 stops. but with the raw update beeing raw and all, and photo's are 14 stops of DR. We will get 14 stops of DR out of the nikon Z6 right?  Which would make this a 2,5K $ FF raw camera(with the atamos recorder included). Which is even only half the price of the zcam F6. This could be the next best thing and blows everything in the near range out of the water, or am I missing something here. What are the downsides of the Z6, as I never used it or saw it really? (I have a shitton EF glass, are there decent adapters out there?)

From what I have seen of prores RAW it gives a bit more dynamic range but not a lot. Maybe a half stop more. The bigger advantage is the 12 bit color data. You'll probably be seeing a realistic 12.5 maybe 13 stops of dynamic range. Which is still very good.

Regardless its a full frame camera that can record 12 bit RAW 4k externally. With the recorder it can be had for about $2000, that is crazy. 

I personally hate the idea of using an external recorder though which is why I am excited for the Z cam, as well as it having 4k 100fps of course. 

[zerocool22]

2 minutes ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

From what I have seen of prores RAW it gives a bit more dynamic range but not a lot. Maybe a half stop more. The bigger advantage is the 12 bit color data. You'll probably be seeing a realistic 12.5 maybe 13 stops of dynamic range. Which is still very good.

Regardless its a full frame camera that can record 12 bit RAW 4k externally. With the recorder it can be had for about $2000, that is crazy. 

I personally hate the idea of using an external recorder though which is why I am excited for the Z cam, as well as it having 4k 100fps of course. 

Well with the zcam you would need to use an external monitor. So thats the same(maybe a little more weight)

[thebrothersthre3]

1 minute ago, zerocool22 said:

Well with the zcam you would need to use an external monitor. So thats the same(maybe a little more weight)

Still those external recorders are battery hogs. My little 5 inch monitor doesn't use much power, could possibly just power it from the camera body. I really like the Z-cam form factor. 

[androidlad]

50 minutes ago, zerocool22 said:

So the nikon z6 is now around 12 stops. but with the raw update beeing raw and all, and photo's are 14 stops of DR. We will get 14 stops of DR out of the nikon Z6 right?  Which would make this a 2,5K $ FF raw camera(with the atamos recorder included). Which is even only half the price of the zcam F6. This could be the next best thing and blows everything in the near range out of the water, or am I missing something here. What are the downsides of the Z6, as I never used it or saw it really? (I have a shitton EF glass, are there decent adapters out there?)

In stills mode the camera uses 14bit ADC readout and has a DR of 13.45EV at base gain.

Video mode switches to 12bit ADC readout so DR can't be over 12EV unless there's some additional on-chip NR.

[zerocool22]

35 minutes ago, androidlad said:

In stills mode the camera uses 14bit ADC readout and has a DR of 13.45EV at base gain.

Video mode switches to 12bit ADC readout so DR can't be over 12EV unless there's some additional on-chip NR.

ok thats a letdown. Zcam F6 is it again. Hope they can finetune the camera soon and show us some decent footage, as all footage as of yet looks quite terrible(weird noise, moire, shaky,...). I would love to see a side by side with a bunch of camera's. Zcam better give the camera to some decent camera guys and let them showcase the camera footage. 

[IronFilm]

18 hours ago, AlexTrinder96 said:

Unfortunately it looks like they have cancelled plans to release the S6 in MFT mount. The MFT mount would allow a speedbooster to be used -  also certain mirrorless only lenses (meike cine, fujinon zooms, slr magic primes) would have been mountable. 

A damn shame!

noooooooooooooooooo :(

17 hours ago, KnightsFan said:

Not if you include the cost of the recorder. But they are pretty close, depending on which media you use or if you find used prices.

We're talking about the FF cameras.

The Nikon Z6 with a Ninja V is definitely a lot cheaper than the Z Cams from the pricing indications they've given us. 

 

15 hours ago, andrgl said:

I'm glad they are embracing positive lock lens mounts. If they add SDI next generation, their cameras will end up on a lot of productions.

And a BNC connection for timecode.