zerocool22 Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 So the nikon z6 is now around 12 stops. but with the raw update beeing raw and all, and photo's are 14 stops of DR. We will get 14 stops of DR out of the nikon Z6 right? Which would make this a 2,5K $ FF raw camera(with the atamos recorder included). Which is even only half the price of the zcam F6. This could be the next best thing and blows everything in the near range out of the water, or am I missing something here. What are the downsides of the Z6, as I never used it or saw it really? (I have a shitton EF glass, are there decent adapters out there?) I went on to check some quick footage online. If its looks this good crippled, I can only imagine how good the RAW will look like. Castorp, Emanuel, Geoff CB and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebrothersthre3 Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 Its definitely on my watch list. Especially at that price. From what I've seen of Prores RAW it only yields slightly more dynamic range than native. So probably like 12.5 maybe 13 stops if the camera is doing 12 in H264. Still thats 12 bit 4K full frame. zerocool22 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightsFan Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 Do we know yet whether it is FF or a 4k crop? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick B. Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 I think it’d have to be crop since raw is 1:1. Unless they can pull off 5k or 6k resolution. Jeromy of Atomos did say they were recording at 4k “and higher” in their testing. But the dynamic range is what I’ve been really curious about. We all know stills DR doesn’t translate to video DR for multiple reasons. But in this case will it translate? I think each sensor also has degraded bit depth as you move into faster frame rates from stills to video. So there is that factor. But if this is 12-bit and it’s raw you’d think you might see DR that is comparable to stills. I suppose the raw codec compression is another limiting factor. Although HQ is supposed to be a negligible loss. I picked a Z6 and Ninja V up used for a good price so I’m eager to see if the workflow will be worth the hassle. Would be nice if Resolve adds support in the future too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff CB Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 1 hour ago, KnightsFan said: Do we know yet whether it is FF or a 4k crop? Full frame. I'm also tempted by the Z6, my great dislike for external recorders ( unless it's SDI) has prevented me from pulling the trigger. Kisaha 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kisaha Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 30 minutes ago, Geoff CB said: Full frame. I'm also tempted by the Z6, my great dislike for external recorders ( unless it's SDI) has prevented me from pulling the trigger. Same here. It could be a clear upgrade to my photography as well. I still use my NX system for photos but I wouldn't mind some kind of upgrade in 2020. Sorry if I sound too ignorant, but is there an option to adapt EF to Nikon Z? What is the photo AF consensus? Canon - Sony and Nikon 3rd? Because 3rd is not good enough in 2020.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
androidlad Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 If it's true RAW then it's impossible to do 4K from 6K sensor without crop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightsFan Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 1 hour ago, Geoff CB said: Full frame. I'm also tempted by the Z6, my great dislike for external recorders ( unless it's SDI) has prevented me from pulling the trigger. 56 minutes ago, androidlad said: If it's true RAW then it's impossible to do 4K from 6K sensor without crop. So if it is FF is it 6k or does it line skip? I assumed it must crop for 4k. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff CB Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 3 hours ago, Kisaha said: Same here. It could be a clear upgrade to my photography as well. I still use my NX system for photos but I wouldn't mind some kind of upgrade in 2020. Sorry if I sound too ignorant, but is there an option to adapt EF to Nikon Z? What is the photo AF consensus? Canon - Sony and Nikon 3rd? Because 3rd is not good enough in 2020.. For mirrorless AF Sony is way ahead in first, Nikon is second, Canon Third. The AF between Nikon and Canon is pretty damn close though. Canon is kicking ass in primes but Nikon is making incredible zooms. I'm trying to hold out until generation 2 of Canon/Nikon and generation 4 from Sony, hoping for 10-bit 4:2:2 internal from all of them. Kisaha 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webrunner5 Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 I would guess 12 bit Raw, which is damn good don't get me wrong, is the best they are going to do with the Z6. You are not going to match Photo DR, just like @androidlad said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The ghost of squig Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 6 hours ago, webrunner5 said: I would guess 12 bit Raw, which is damn good don't get me wrong, is the best they are going to do with the Z6. You are not going to match Photo DR, just like @androidlad said. Why not? Magic Lantern raw matches photo raw dynamic range. The visual difference between 14bit raw and 12bit raw on the 5D Mk3 is imperceptible. Emanuel 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webrunner5 Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 We are talking Raw over HDMI. Now SDI sure. I am really not sure they are actually getting true 14bit video on ML. I doubt back then Canon converters were really that good, especially on the cheaper models. "14bit raw and 12bit raw on the 5D Mk3 is imperceptible" That statement sort of highlights my assumption. There should be a noticeable difference, especially in video.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ND64 Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 13 hours ago, androidlad said: If it's true RAW then it's impossible to do 4K from 6K sensor without crop. It's not impossible. Nikon and especially Canon are doing similar task for their sRAW for years, though the result is softer than native lower resolution image. The problem is it needs significant and constant CPU processing which Z6 is not designed for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
androidlad Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 9 minutes ago, Eric Calabros said: It's not impossible. Nikon and especially Canon are doing similar task for their sRAW for years, though the result is softer than native lower resolution image. The problem is it needs significant and constant CPU processing which Z6 is not designed for. sRAW is not true RAW, it’s debayered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The ghost of squig Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 1 hour ago, webrunner5 said: We are talking Raw over HDMI. Now SDI sure. I am really not sure they are actually getting true 14bit video on ML. I doubt back then Canon converters were really that good, especially on the cheaper models. "14bit raw and 12bit raw on the 5D Mk3 is imperceptible" That statement sort of highlights my assumption. There should be a noticeable difference, especially in video.. This debate was settled a long time ago, but just to recap: ML raw is true 14bit raw, you can open a ML CDNG file in ACR and manipulate it just like a Canon CR2 raw photo file, the DR is identical, and there's no noticeable loss of DR in 12bit. More bit depth is good, but there are other factors that determine available dynamic range: https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=11097.0 I haven't worked with ProRes raw, how well FCPX recovers highlights and shadows on ProRes raw files will be a bigger determining factor than whether the Z6 is outputting 12bit or 14bit raw video. kaylee and Castorp 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webrunner5 Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 Yeah since ML is using ML CDNG files they should be on par. But I doubt they can do 14bit on the Z6. But it seems just about anything is possible there days, who knows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zerocool22 Posted June 10, 2019 Author Share Posted June 10, 2019 59 minutes ago, webrunner5 said: Yeah since ML is using ML CDNG files they should be on par. But I doubt they can do 14bit on the Z6. But it seems just about anything is possible there days, who knows. Well they have no higher up camera's to protect, so if they are smart and want to sell a shit ton of camera's and want to fuck canon, sony and panasonic they should. We have been asking for RAW since the release of the 5D II over 10 years ago, not much has changed over the course over the years (mostly more slowmotion options, AF and IBIS). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebrothersthre3 Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 I just doubt its going to happen considering prores RAW has been 12 bit not 14. Nikon hasn't hinted at anything more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
androidlad Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 36 minutes ago, thebrothersthre3 said: I just doubt its going to happen considering prores RAW has been 12 bit not 14. Nikon hasn't hinted at anything more. ProRes RAW can be 14bit, DJI Zenmuse X7 records certain resolution/framerates in 14bit ProRes RAW. It's no higher than 24P. But for the sensor Z6 is using, it cannot achieve video frame rate using 14bit ADC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip77 Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 On 6/10/2019 at 2:47 PM, thebrothersthre3 said: I just doubt its going to happen considering prores RAW has been 12 bit not 14. Nikon hasn't hinted at anything more. I believe they said it would be 14bit RAW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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