Axel Posted August 26, 2013 Share Posted August 26, 2013 I am somewhat surprised that no one mentioned Hiding Place, although it is already three days old: http://vimeo.com/72996911 I understand, Bloom had fallen from grace. The more relentlessly we can pull the clip to pieces. But actually, despite it is sepia sunset again, I find it quite nice. In the german SlashCam forum they have a Pocket already, and right after there were reports in the BM forum about grisly artifacts, they made own tests. The effect is called sensor blooming or white orbs or black hole sun phenomenon. Maybe a sensor problem, that would be bad. Maybe software, maybe the codec. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stCTphrtqfo Easy to reproduce: Parts of the image that really clip tend to 'bloom'. If the clipping is very heavy, the center of the white area turns black. Ratguity 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian Posted August 26, 2013 Share Posted August 26, 2013 The BMCC has (or had?) the same black spot effect: http://www.bmcuser.com/showthread.php?1794-Black-quot-sun-spots-quot-Real-issue-or-user-error-%28Firmware-v-1-1%29 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted August 26, 2013 Administrators Share Posted August 26, 2013 The blackspotomatic. The black holes are fixable in post, you just have to turn them white with the tracker in Resolve. It is hard if you're not familiar with the software though. The white orbs however are a major problem. These are a hardware issue with the sensor. Fuji X10 suffered from it and Fuji's firmware update was unable to remedy it. They had to modify the sensor at the hardware level to fix it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HurtinMinorKey Posted August 26, 2013 Share Posted August 26, 2013 Look at bloom flashing a little skill. Looks very nice, but it's still a little shaky, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted August 26, 2013 Administrators Share Posted August 26, 2013 I don't know. I think I will stick to my GH3 for my Micro Four Thirds glass. And at £1500 the BMCC mFT is an option. I can't risk having shots ruined by big white invaders from outer space. Axel, nahua and Paulio 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nahua Posted August 27, 2013 Share Posted August 27, 2013 You want to see nasty blob effect? Check out Emm's video at 00:53 (water): https://vimeo.com/72675168 As nice as the image might seem, it sure looks like the highlights clip way too fast. And those blobbies are just the worst. I'm happy that I won't be a first adopter on this. I'll wait till 2015 for them to sort out their sensor issues. Maybe we'll get RAW too? How about formatting/erasing cards in-camera? Better battery life? Yeah I think I'll wait and see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oliver Daniel Posted August 27, 2013 Share Posted August 27, 2013 I'm not sure if anyone else has noticed, or if this is just an error with the camera/capture/whatever - but my eyes are seeing something in BMPCC footage that looks a bit peculiar. Basically I can see a grid pattern on the shots, only very faintly. The best example I could see was the Bloom clip with his cat. Or is it just me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dahlfors Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 The colors and the grading possibilities of 10-bit... So lovely! In the right scenes this camera will surely produce lovely footage and be worth its money. In wrong scenes outdoors in setups where you can't control the light enough, the sensor blooming can be an issue. Check how the highlight eats up the silhouette of the woman at around 00:43 to 00:45 in Bloom's video. Not a pleasant artifact at all. The worst case I've seen so far in a pocket camera video is the blinking car lights at around 02:53 in this video: https://vimeo.com/72972391 Here it's quite visible how much the overexposed light leaks into the rest of the image. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bioskop.Inc Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 Has anyone tried exposing this camera correctly & if so does it still produce this blooming effect? This would be good to know, because if people are just shooting & thinking that they can fix anything in post then all these tests are pointless. I suppose we'll just have to wait to see what BM say/do about it - kinda lucky that they haven't shipped too many units already, if they have to do a recall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nahua Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 The colors and the grading possibilities of 10-bit... So lovely! In the right scenes this camera will surely produce lovely footage and be worth its money. In wrong scenes outdoors in setups where you can't control the light enough, the sensor blooming can be an issue. Check how the highlight eats up the silhouette of the woman at around 00:43 to 00:45 in Bloom's video. Not a pleasant artifact at all. The worst case I've seen so far in a pocket camera video is the blinking car lights at around 02:53 in this video: Here it's quite visible how much the overexposed light leaks into the rest of the image. You know the beginning of this video has blooming lights, right above the escalator, although they are more like rectangles with rounded corners because of the florescents. You can see it at 2:35 with the blinking lights too. The question is can you "plan" for this? I don't think so. And you can't fix it either. I think it's good that they aren't rolling a ton of these out, but it's funny how none of this showed up with Brawley's videos. It's best to just wait for version 2 or 3 before buying this camera. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axel Posted August 28, 2013 Author Share Posted August 28, 2013 You know the beginning of this video has blooming lights, right above the escalator, although they are more like rectangles with rounded corners because of the florescents. You can see it at 2:35 with the blinking lights too. The question is can you "plan" for this? I don't think so. And you can't fix it either. I think it's good that they aren't rolling a ton of these out, but it's funny how none of this showed up with Brawley's videos. It's best to just wait for version 2 or 3 before buying this camera. Allegedly there is a good chance to get rid of the white orbs with a firmware update, because it has more to do with quantization than with pixels overflowing their neighborhood with charge. We'll now in a few weeks presumably. In the meantime, I wonder why there are no natural looking videos available. Must be a new grading hype to let everything look as if some slides had been lying in the sun for a few decades ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tehgeek Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 The footage from this thing looks great but those highlight blobs are a real bummer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HurtinMinorKey Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 The footage from this thing looks great but those highlight blobs are a real bummer. Yah, I still can't get over how blooming good the P. Bloom clip is. The blooming issue just seems to be another quirk of the BMD cameras. Doesn't seem to be a deal breaker, given the overall quality of the camera, but it's definitely something you need to be aware of when shooting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oliver Daniel Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 I think the footage from this camera looks pretty special, blooming orbs or not. But still hope it gets fixed. Still, for all its merits, I'm still astounded that you can't format a card or delete a clip. But you can shoot in ProRes and soon in RAW. Rooooar!!! Baffling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian Posted August 29, 2013 Share Posted August 29, 2013 https://vimeo.com/73379801 Those white blobs in the first shots... :wacko: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bioskop.Inc Posted August 29, 2013 Share Posted August 29, 2013 The question that is bothering me is why these orbs didn't manifest themselves in John Brawley's test footage, as they should have been all over the place? Very strange indeed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikkor Posted August 29, 2013 Share Posted August 29, 2013 That's sad, The image looks nice and clean, but the blubs... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno Posted August 29, 2013 Share Posted August 29, 2013 Another video from DSLR News Shooter: https://vimeo.com/73379801 Besides the nasty blooming artifacts, rolling shutter artifacts look quite strong as well, every handheld footage so far has noticeable jello, hopefully stabilized lenses will make it look better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Cunningham Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 The question that is bothering me is why these orbs didn't manifest themselves in John Brawley's test footage, as they should have been all over the place? Very strange indeed! If I'm not mistaken, he used ND, so that he was actually exposing closer to the camera's natural ISO rather than relying on the meta exposure that just scales the RAW values (which are over-exposed) before conversion to ProRes. The BMD sensor sees further into highlights than the 5D or Epic but there are limits. I bet the conversion to ProRes has a hand on top of this. The BMCC's ProRes conversion was/is likewise pretty mediocre from what I remember in Andrew's story many months back. It's definitely not as good as if you'd shot RAW and done the conversion yourself. Wanna bet you throw some "black glass" on there and get closer to working at ISO 800 for these harsh daylight shots and all of the sudden the footage starts to look more like John Brawley's. GD...WTF...why do people post ungraded stuff? nahua 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bioskop.Inc Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 If I'm not mistaken, he used ND, so that he was actually exposing closer to the camera's natural ISO rather than relying on the meta exposure that just scales the RAW values (which are over-exposed) before conversion to ProRes. The BMD sensor sees further into highlights than the 5D or Epic but there are limits. I bet the conversion to ProRes has a hand on top of this. The BMCC's ProRes conversion was/is likewise pretty mediocre from what I remember in Andrew's story many months back. It's definitely not as good as if you'd shot RAW and done the conversion yourself. Wanna bet you throw some "black glass" on there and get closer to working at ISO 800 for these harsh daylight shots and all of the sudden the footage starts to look more like John Brawley's. GD...WTF...why do people post ungraded stuff? BR you always come up trumps! So basically you need to film properly & not just shoot any old crap however you like - a bit like a proper camera. So it'll just be another learning curve, as with any new camera & once you've cracked it... Doh! Forgot about the ND filters, now it makes complete sense & i suppose you're talking about using something like a Black Pro Mist Filter - i remember someone recommending this filter to me for DSLR filming. RAW will be amazing on this thing, but again the pain of having a huge storage system to cope. Maybe BM will tweak the ProRes conversion & that might solve it. Yeah, posting ungraded footage is kinda pointless, unless you can't grade! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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