JVC is back with a new cinema camera!!

[Kisaha]

i am just putting this here, for all of us to understand where JVC stands at the moment.

http://pro.jvc.com/prof/attributes/features.jsp?model_id=MDL102557

The SSD slot is another great innovation by JVC. The price is 3900$ though.

 

[webrunner5]

Wow that would be a pretty sweet camera. Too bad it isn't 1000 dollars cheaper. Kind of high for a 1'' sensor. But it has some nice specs. You kind of figure it is sort of a Sony RX 10 mk IV in a bigger body. Can't cost more than twice as much money to do that. PK4 proves you can do stuff cheaper if you really want to.

[sanveer]

4 hours ago, Kisaha said:

i am just putting this here, for all of us to understand where JVC stands at the moment.

http://pro.jvc.com/prof/attributes/features.jsp?model_id=MDL102557

The SSD slot is another great innovation by JVC. The price is 3900$ though.

 

The camera seems pretty interesting, especially with its various HDR and Log profiles, 10-bit h.264 and various flavours of ProRes. 

Also, interestingly the specifications read:

"Sensitivity: F11 at 2000lx 89.9% reflectance"

Which I am guessing means that the sensors isn't too bad for low light, either. 

 

It's clearly an ENG cameras with its broadcast feature emphasis. Only if it had a larger sensor (like a M43 one on the DVX200), and some frame rate options. 

 

Maybe JVC is trying to figure why they aren't selling well, despite some interesting features on their various cameras. And thus the comprehensive survey. 

 

[IronFilm]

On 6/15/2019 at 3:25 PM, newfoundmass said:

Give me that Super 35 sensor and M43 mount and take my money. 

It was disturbing how many questions were about an EF Mount...

So I made sure to keep it clear in my answers we want MICRO FOUR THIRDS MOUNT!

(plus Timecode I/O, and ND filters!)

9 hours ago, Kisaha said:

i am just putting this here, for all of us to understand where JVC stands at the moment.

http://pro.jvc.com/prof/attributes/features.jsp?model_id=MDL102557

The SSD slot is another great innovation by JVC. The price is 3900$ though.

 

Ohhhhh...... nice:

• Main features:
• 10-bit ProRes 422/422HQ/422LT, at 4K UHD resolution and 59.94p/50p/29.97p/25p/23.98p 
• recording to M.2 SSD**
• 4K UHD 29.97p/25p/23.98p 4:2:2 10-bit or 4:2:0 8-bit (150Mbps) 
• and various HD recording to SDHC/SDXC card*
• HDR recording, HLG or J-Log1 (10-bit)

[Andrew Reid]

On 6/15/2019 at 2:52 PM, BrooklynDan said:

I chimed in and left my two cents. Full frame, anamorphic support, SDI, color science, etc, etc.

I also insisted that the camera have a shoulder-mounted form factor. I simply do not understand why people have their arms wrapped around the mirrorless style even for dedicated cinema cameras. We have 100+ years of cinema camera design behind us, and none of them looked like a stills camera.

In case you forgot what a real cinema camera looks like:

AJA got close with the Cion.

Don't think they are still making it. Same sensor as BMD Production Camera 4K, so Super 35mm global shutter but not great above ISO 400.

[BTM_Pix]

19 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

AJA got close with the Cion.

Don't think they are still making it. Same sensor as BMD Production Camera 4K, so Super 35mm global shutter but not great above ISO 400.

 

Oddly enough, I saw this for sale the other day and thought of you !

Go on , you know you want to

https://www.mpb.com/en-uk/used-equipment/used-photo-and-video/used-video-cameras/aja-cion-4k-production-camera/sku-841098/

[IronFilm]

On 6/16/2019 at 11:22 PM, Alt Shoo said:

Another aspect of the LS300 that most didn’t understand and seemed to leave a perpetual confusion amongst our peers, is the MFT mount  JVC decided to use with a S35 sensor instead of something more “logical”. Even with all of the data JVC left in their white papers, sadly most couldn’t wrap their heads around it. I’m not sad about JVC using the MFT mount at all because that was an excellent choice, but sad about the reading comprehension our peers lacked and still when that idea was discussed to no end in the simplest of ways, the concept of using an MFT mount with a S35 sensor was just lost on many.

Truly is sad how idiotic the average person is. 

 

22 hours ago, Kisaha said:

 

@Alt Shoo

6K yes, full frame - NO!

I seriously doubt a full frame such camera would be useful or necessary or even competitively priced which is the key point here.

Ursa mini pro cameras, EVA, C cameras, FS cameras AREN'T full frame and they own 99,9% of their market..

P4K, Z, GH cameras are owning a huge portion of their market too with "only" being m43..

When I use full frame cameras I always go to 5.6f or more, to have reasonable depth of field, and newer smaller sensors have great high ISO performance..

The sensor with the m43 mount was/ is an amazing solution for me and speedboosted can cover all bases! This was a plus for me on the previous camera, the company that owns the LS300 I am using since then acquired 2 more GH5 and a Pocket 4K, before the LS300 they were only buying Canon/Sony..

I agree, both 6K and FF would be a distraction and a bad path for JVC to go down now.

 

 

[DBounce]

2 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

AJA got close with the Cion.

Don't think they are still making it. Same sensor as BMD Production Camera 4K, so Super 35mm global shutter but not great above ISO 400.

I've used that camera,  it's not great. There's a reason it never took off. 

[Alt Shoo]

In my long post I previously shared, I wanted to also address the idea behind why I feel JVC should produce a 6k or even 8k resolution cinema camera, but time didn’t permit. Here are my thoughts. 

It is well known that a camera with higher than 4k resolution will allow users to render more than decent 4k, which we have with the previous model. It’s also known that many users agree that with a higher resolving sensor, one can re-compose during post. No matter how much you plan, there’s always something you wish you could have captured in post. This choice allows users to append a decision! Now this 6/8k may just be decent, but I’d take quality 4k resolved from a higher res sensor any day than just decent 4k.

In regards to marketing, it makes sense as well because that’s where most of these companies are leaning, especially Sharp another unfashionable company. It also ensures a longer camera life if it is “future durable”. The market is moving fast and I think it’ll be a lost for JVC, not to participate in the strategies other companies such as Sony and Panasonic are diving in.

This strategy also coincides with why going full frame is the better choice. It just makes marketing sense! Yes there are plenty supporters for MFT and S35, I’m definitely one! I enjoy the affordable choices and features using this format and I have a humble collection of these lenses. In fact most of my lenses are MFT, but the market predicts that full frame is where a lot of users are going. Also I’m quite sure that they will incorporate their lovely VSM technology, so with an affordable adapter, users can still utilize what’s in their collection. 

Still with these choices, JVC has to endure a proper form factor, durability and access to current trending accessories! I think a form factor between mirrorless cameras and smaller cinema cameras like the Eva1, with the necessary bells and whistles will be a logical choice for JVC to become in vogue. 

[webrunner5]

If it goes FF no one on here is going to be able to afford it. We don't need 10,000 dollar cameras. We need 2000, 3000 Dollar ones..

[BTM_Pix]

7 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

We need 2000, 3000 Dollar ones..

I like having a few cameras but even at 3000 dollars I think 2000 of them is a bit excessive Don

With regard to the 6K or 8K issue, one of the drawbacks with the LS300 when you are in 4K is that the Prime Zoom function only gives you 1.25x zoom versus 2.3x zoom when you are in HD so the additional resolution would be of great benefit for that if not necessarily as a recording format.

[Kisaha]

2 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

With regard to the 6K or 8K issue, one of the drawbacks with the LS300 when you are in 4K is that the Prime Zoom function only gives you 1.25x zoom versus 2.3x zoom when you are in HD so the additional resolution would be of great benefit for that if not necessarily as a recording format.

If I had to choose between 6K - S35 variable, or 4K full frame, then I would vote 100% for 6K-S35. More than 1 reasons!

For economical reasons a S35 sensor makes far more sense also,

Lets see the Z cameras that are more a sensor in a box than a traditional design. The price difference from m43 to S35 and full frame is "huge" and huge.

Also, I believe the market here are people buying 1/3,2/3,1" camcorders, anything more will be just heavenly to them and ,maybe, good enough for some of us.

[thebrothersthre3]

For me if it delivers RAW, S35, ND's, prores, 4K 60P in a more professional form factor its a win. Anything more like full frame or 4k 120fps or 300fps is all icing on the cake, not a requirement though. If the price goes about $4000 than my interest starts to be lost, especially when you are competing against say the URSA G2 and BRAW or even the Pocket 4k at $1300. You could have two pocket 4k's for $2600, thats hard to beat. 

[webrunner5]

Yeah but unless any of the cameras have a Global Shutter the Rolling Shutter in FF would be a no go for me. That is the big advantage of 1", m4/3 sensors, even the 3 CCD ones.

And so far if a camera that has a GS in it it is a dog in low light. So that is not so hot either. I am sure they can improve that with faster processors, readouts on the sensors..

[BTM_Pix]

In answer to "why was the LS300 overlooked by so many users?", I think this interaction that I've just seen on Twitter might be quite informative

 

In fairness, JVC did show two different versions of it that year but I definitely think the fact it had an MFT mount has certainly clouded the message regarding it NOT having an MFT sensor.

 

[thebrothersthre3]

12 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

Yeah but unless any of the cameras have a Global Shutter the Rolling Shutter in FF would be a no go for me. That is the big advantage of 1", m4/3 sensors, even the 3 CCD ones.

And so far if a camera that has a GS in it it is a dog in low light. So that is not so hot either. I am sure they can improve that with faster processors, readouts on the sensors..

Yeah depends on what you need it for. RED's don't have great rolling shutter but are being used everywhere. The newer full frame cameras like the Z6 or A7III seem pretty decent. 

Faster processors should help though like you said. The G2 rolling shutter is super minimal, Alexa territory almost. 

[webrunner5]

I think the main draw to people ever wanting a Red camera was the better DR they promised, and finally did produce later, their original Red One was a little lacking in DR, and the Raw, especially being able to compress it so much and it still hold up. Those 2 things make one heck of a difference to high end productions, especially in the early years of Digital Cinema. Still does, not counting Red sort of gave high end DoP,s camera bodies to use for free to promote them, even custom building them for them. That helps lol.

[thebrothersthre3]

15 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

I think the main draw to people ever wanting a Red camera was the better DR they promised, and finally did produce later, their original Red One was a little lacking in DR, and the Raw, especially being able to compress it so much and it still hold up. Those 2 things make one heck of a difference to high end productions, especially in the early years of Digital Cinema. Still does, not counting Red sort of gave high end DoP,s camera bodies to use for free to promote them, even custom building them for them. That helps lol.

Yeah the compressed RAW is pretty cool. I didn't even know you could do 20:1 compression on them until recently. 

[sanveer]

1 hour ago, BTM_Pix said:

In fairness, JVC did show two different versions of it that year but I definitely think the fact it had an MFT mount has certainly clouded the message regarding it NOT having an MFT sensor.

The GY-LSX2 and GY-LSX1 seemed like the forerunners to the GY-LS300, with windowed higher frame rates removed and the mount options limited to just M43 (plus external recording options limited for 4k 422). 

Quite likely that they are sticking with the same roadmap now, concentrating on adding more lens options, along with high speed and ProRes. Also, V60/V90 SD Cards should be able to handle more flavours of 10-bit codecs, higher frame rates and they have an SSD options for some of their camcorder(s), so maybe they have that too. 

Basically they are trying to get the GY-LS300 on steroids, and what's holding them back is the knowledge of what Sensor and Mount they think most Filmmakers (who buy their own equipment) want, as well as perhaps fitting in things like IBIS if absolutely necessary. There seem quite a few capable Super35 and FF sensorsavailable including the one on the Zenmuse X7 which has almost 14 Stops, does 6k RAW and a few other tricks up its sleeve (the super35mm sensor should be easily converted by the M43 mount too  except, perhaps if they need IBIS).

[Sanka]

Thanks a lot for sharing the survey link. This is a great opportunity. I own a JVC LS-300 and I love it. A better quality  camera of that type with a better screen and (very important) a simpler and more logical menu would be a great and unique C4K camera with XLR, BNC, internal ND filter...

The association of a S35 sensor with M43 mount is an amazing feature, as I discovered  that many M43 lenses are able (or almost able) to cover the S35 sensor size, widening everything... 

Voigtlander 17.5 mm, 25 mm and Panasonic 42.5 mm f/1.2 are among them

And with a speedbooster and FX lenses, you get that "Full Frame" look on demand.

No camera on the market are offering such a flexibility from S16 crop view at 120 fps ( I am using my vintage Cine Nikkor tiny lenses), M43 convenient compactness to FF look.