Find the best video quality for under $200 - fun challenge

[mercer]

4 minutes ago, mkabi said:

I have to agree here.

Sorry to backpedal here ? -> ?

I can't find anything on my side of the world that fits the $150 (US) budget.... unless you want action camera footage (I can still do something with that)..

May be increase it to US $200 (+shipping)?

Also, can we rent equipment?

Or they are actively looking for deals that fit that $150 budget....

This is what I am working with:

But, I'm in Canada and even if you do the exchange rate $150 (US) = $198 (CAD).... someone said under $75? Where.... I'll take it!

I agree with you about the price, I even mentioned it upthread. But I don’t think any hard rules have been set yet. I hope the lack of replies isn’t reflecting the interest. 

[mkabi]

21 hours ago, mercer said:

Awesome idea!!! If I have a vote for rules to help even the playing field... no 4K, no Raw, no ProRes. So 1080p or less compressed codec.

I don't know about this one.... not that I completely disagree...

But, may be... if you created a 2 min. short (street walk-around) that was 1080p and manipulated the image (even through editing) such that it is better than someone with 4K and RAW... we can put that last nail in the coffin; its not the camera but the person behind the camera. Of course, you can argue that the camera is the limiting factor blah blah blah... but people need to elevate their own skill level before seeking a camera that is beyond their own skill level.

[webrunner5]

I don't think the camera is the determining factor about skill level. It is the initial thought of what are you going to shoot, and the ability to grade and edit I think is most important. A Smartphone, or a Osmo Pocket sort of proves that point. We are to the point now that even auto everything is really not too bad of a way to go on average. So camera skill is becoming less and less of an advantage. 

I think even that Gerald Undone video would have turned out better using Auto everything to be honest. This AI stuff is scary good when conditions are not off the chart.

[mercer]

28 minutes ago, mkabi said:

I don't know about this one.... not that I completely disagree...

But, may be... if you created a 2 min. short (street walk-around) that was 1080p and manipulated the image (even through editing) such that it is better than someone with 4K and RAW... we can put that last nail in the coffin; its not the camera but the person behind the camera. Of course, you can argue that the camera is the limiting factor blah blah blah... but people need to elevate their own skill level before seeking a camera that is beyond their own skill level.

Yes, of course the man behind the camera can elevate any camera and isn’t that the point of this exercise? But I think some people would definitely use an eos-m and ML Raw and they’ll have a clear advantage. Of course, I’m absolutely fine with it because I already own an eos-m and this challenge will give me a reason to finally mess with the new builds and a c-mount lens... so I take it back...

No restrictions other than price, please. 

[BTM_Pix]

51 minutes ago, mercer said:

I hope the lack of replies isn’t reflecting the interest. 

I think people are probably just pondering it at this stage until there is a definitive call on the rules.

I suggest using our friend's MPB as the price guide for what cameras can be used as they are a good mid point between used retail prices and one off bargain eBay prices.

So if the rule was that any camera that was available on there at say £150 or under was allowable then I think thats a reasonable bench mark.

There are more than enough pedants on here that will destroy the spirit of what this is about arguing over receipts, exchange rates and relative cost of living weightings per geographic area otherwise  

[webrunner5]

Well my EOS M I just bought falls into this at the 140 Dollars I paid. But is ML an unfair advantage? I would sort of think so, but normal M output is not too bad.

[mercer]

14 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

Well my EOS M I just bought falls into this at the 140 Dollars I paid. But is ML an unfair advantage? I would sort of think so, but normal M output is not too bad.

Yeah, I loved my eos-m with its 50mbps codec. And even the bitrate hack with ML is pretty good. 

[homestar_kevin]

Love the idea and would definitely be interested.

I think one of the cheapest/best options in the US right now is the NEX5n coming in around $100-120.

What do you guys think about using support/grip gear we already have?

Or do we want to do mainly static shots, focusing on composition and scene selection?

With the sony stuff, would I be allowed to use a lens turbo or manual lenses I already have, or do we want to do like $250 for total set up, camera & lens?

A lot of questions to answer to form this into something translatable to members all over the world, but it has potential to be a lot of fun and exactly what this forum should be doing.

Lets shoot some pretty shit.

[BTM_Pix]

It would be easy enough to make a multiple choice poll on here to let everyone vote on the various options.

And don't forget to include the options for which camera @Andrew Reid has to give up as the prize for the winning entry !

[mercer]

The 1DC?

[Snowfun]

I’d suggest that we don’t impose a strict limit and rely instead on an honest statement of gear used (body & lens - let’s not get too worked up about batteries, cards etc) and the cost. This can then be taken into account when voting.

If we aim for €200 that gets us going in the right general direction. And someone will get their PhD studying why eBay prices suddenly levelled out at €200...

 

[BTM_Pix]

13 minutes ago, mercer said:

The 1DC?

I think he'd have a Charlton Heston/NRA moment with that one.

[mercer]

20 minutes ago, Snowfun said:

I’d suggest that we don’t impose a strict limit and rely instead on an honest statement of gear used (body & lens - let’s not get too worked up about batteries, cards etc) and the cost. This can then be taken into account when voting.

If we aim for €200 that gets us going in the right general direction. And someone will get their PhD studying why eBay prices suddenly levelled out at €200...

 

Creating is the most important part but also being out of our comfort zones with equipment that has less frills than the marvels available to us now.

So, sure one can buy a GX85, or already own one, for under the limit but is that really part of the spirit of the challenge?

But whatever Andrew decides is fine for me... limitations force creativity. 

[Andrew Reid]

Out of my cold dead hands!!

So a quick summary of the rules then...

1. Under £150/150euros/$150, to make it simple. I think that also rules out ProRes and 4K but if you genuinely find a camera like that under the price limit, fair play. So I am allowing 4K and better codecs, if you can get em.

2. Proof of purchase receipt. Can be recent. You do not need to buy another camera, but it does have to be within the past 6 months and under $150.

3. No Magic Lantern RAW... It would thrash everything else and make the contest a bit boring.

4. Lens has to be "reasonably priced" and you can only use one. Choose wisely from your existing stuff. I will catch you if you use an Otus.

5. Use whatever else you like, in terms of cards, etc.

6. Tripod or handheld only - so no fancy rigs or sliders.

7. No fancy lights.

8. No fancy actors.

9. You can use slow-mo, if your camera does 60p for example

10. No fancy lens adapters like an expensive Speed Booster

11. Declare your camera (post pictures of it) in the competition thread (once competition has started)

12. In the final video, upload to YouTube or Vimeo with description of what mode you shot in and codec (i.e. 1080p 24p / 720p 60p / etc.)

THE GOAL

It's a cinematography and mood challenge, to make your camera look AS GOOD AS POSSIBLE. I don't really care about the story or message, although if you want to do one that's fine as well and it may serve the images nicely. Sound can be anything you like - but I'd prefer some emotional attachment with the pictures. It enhances the cinematography and mood a LOT if you get it right.

Everything else is up to you. No time limit. No editing limitations, you can use a LUT, colour grade, warp stabilisation, slow-mo, etc. if you think it improves your piece.

PRIZE

I will pick a winner for the main prize, and there will also be a forum vote for the most popular video.

I'll reveal the prize after the entries are in.

Would love to do a photography one of these some time as well, in collaboration with another forum member - maybe @Mattias Burling ?

Who is in, and who agrees with the 10 rules? Any suggestions welcome.

For the start of the competition, please wait for the main blog post... Maybe in a few days, or this weekend.

In the mean time... happy shopping / dusting off

1 hour ago, mercer said:

Creating is the most important part but also being out of our comfort zones with equipment that has less frills than the marvels available to us now.

So, sure one can buy a GX85, or already own one, for under the limit but is that really part of the spirit of the challenge?

But whatever Andrew decides is fine for me... limitations force creativity. 

It's still in the spirit of the challenge if you find a camera as good as that for under $150. I doubt you can though.

Remember though, it's the cinematography that matters as well... You can easily make a 4K camera look worse than a much cheaper one if the shooting technique isn't nice

[Andrew Reid]

Just to clarify the lenses and filters rules:

I want to keep it simple, with as few rules as possible.

I think we should be allowed to use whatever lens we like as long as it's relatively old and cheap-ish. But if someone only has a $250 50mm F1.4 Nikon AI-S for example, I wouldn't be against them using it. Just no really fancy stuff.

Maybe bonus points for you, if you go for a REALLY cheap lens?

On filters... These are allowed... ND filter and basic essentials like that are ok. Soft mist filter, UV filter, etc. and trick lens filters are all ok too for creative reasons.

[thebrothersthre3]

So is my GH2 not allowed because I bought it like 3 years ago?

[heart0less]

If I can use my laser damaged NX1 that I bought for 150€, I'm in!

1080p mode only, of course. 

[Andrew Reid]

12 minutes ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

So is my GH2 not allowed because I bought it like 3 years ago?

I think this is the final part of the rules, which I haven't yet decided on. What do people think?

I don't think the GH2 is under $150 yet, is it?

The spirit of the challenge is to try something new... Go on a shopping hunt, a voyage of discovery, researching a new camera you never used, or overlooked when it first came out.

But then if you don't have a spare $150 and just want to use the oldest, cheapest camera on your shelf, perhaps that should be allowed as well... provided it is actually now a $150 camera in 2019 on ebay.

9 minutes ago, heart0less said:

If I can use my laser damaged NX1 that I bought for 150€, I'm in!

1080p mode only, of course. 

Yep, that's allowed. LOL.

You bought it for $150 or under so it's within the rules. The challenge will be how you get around the damage, without it hurting the image so much that you get voted out of the cinematography challenge

[BTM_Pix]

10 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

I think this is the final part of the rules, which I haven't yet decided on. What do people think?

I don't think the GH2 is under $150 yet, is it?

The spirit of the challenge is to try something new... Go on a shopping hunt, a voyage of discovery, researching a new camera you never used, or overlooked when it first came out.

But then if you don't have a spare $150 and just want to use the oldest, cheapest camera on your shelf, perhaps that should be allowed as well... provided it is actually now a $150 camera in 2019 on ebay.

Yeah, I think if you've already got one and it could be bought in working order for £150 on eBay on a Buy It Now or from a used dealer like MPB then thats fair enough.

Just have people declare beforehand what they are going to use with a link to where they can buy it for that price if they already own it.

[kye]

@Andrew Reid - good job on the rules  

I also kind of like the idea that if a cameras current value is less than $150 then someone can still use it, considering that someone else who didn't own it can buy it and use it, and also that any camera currently devalued to that probably isn't in use any more!  but happy with your call.

9 hours ago, mercer said:

I hope this happens. In fact, I’m a little surprised by the lack of replies. The older members would have eaten this up...

But it seems the next generation of video shooters are only interested in resolution and auto focus.

That's because resolution really matters!!  Look....    ???

Also, and completely unrelated question for the group.

I have a particular new project coming up and am looking for recommendations for a camera that is as cinematic as possible and that I can buy for less than $150.....