thephoenix Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 https://***URL not allowed***/whats-inside-a-red-mini-mag-the-controversy-jarred-lands-statement/ Quote Jarred also told us that in reaction to the JinniMag situation, RED will be updating price of their media next week. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mako Sports Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 2 hours ago, thephoenix said: https://***URL not allowed***/whats-inside-a-red-mini-mag-the-controversy-jarred-lands-statement/ ? now thats it up Cinema 5D everybody is going to know about Reds little mini mag scam ? JordanWright 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_David Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 A class action lawsuit is an easy win. Nvidia i just read had to pay up when their 4gb ram video cards turned out to only be 3.5gb. Someone get a lawyer in california asap. ntblowz, IronFilm, andrgl and 1 other 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 12 hours ago, Mako Sports said: now thats it up Cinema 5D everybody is going to know about Reds little mini mag scam ? Someone is going on RED's naughty list this Christmas! webrunner5 and Emanuel 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mokara Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 On 7/5/2019 at 7:12 PM, KnightsFan said: I wonder what would be worse, if they lied about spending millions of dollars on R&D, or whether RED actually spent millions only to settle on off-the-shelf parts. They would not have spent the money designing the drives themselves, but rather on designing the system as it relates to the drives. And yes, millions is not an unreasonable number for something like that. That is the cost of a team of 7-8 engineers for a year. On 7/8/2019 at 2:35 AM, IronFilm said: You still believe RED has "their own custom firmware" on the SSDs?? Vs just having flipped a few bits here or there to keep out "unauthorized" SSDs. Easy enough to test, just switch their SSD for a regular one and see if it works. If RED are using custom firmware, it would fall under copywrite protection, so they would be well within their rights to sue you if you copied the firmware to a new SSD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mokara Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 20 hours ago, Ed_David said: A class action lawsuit is an easy win. Nvidia i just read had to pay up when their 4gb ram video cards turned out to only be 3.5gb. Someone get a lawyer in california asap. Nvidia did not lose the case. The cards did in fact contain 4GB of RAM, it just was not all of the same type. Their position is in fact correct, the problem was people who bought the product did not understand what the terms used meant. The issue for Nvidia was that they were involved in a lawsuit where they were in the right, but was brought by people who did not understand the technology and would be judged by people who did not understand the technology either. For them it was a no win situation, so they settled to cut their losses and move on. A lot of these class action suits end up this way, it is a kind of legal extortion. Usually the claims have no merit, but the risk and cost to the company involved is too great so they settle. In the end that cost is passed on to the consumer though, so we all end up paying for a few people's greed and ignorance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrgl Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 9 minutes ago, Mokara said: Nvidia did not lose the case. The cards did in fact contain 4GB of RAM, it just was not all of the same type. Their position is in fact correct, the problem was people who bought the product did not understand what the terms used meant. The issue for Nvidia was that they were involved in a lawsuit where they were in the right, but was brought by people who did not understand the technology and would be judged by people who did not understand the technology either. For them it was a no win situation, so they settled to cut their losses and move on. A lot of these class action suits end up this way, it is a kind of legal extortion. Usually the claims have no merit, but the risk and cost to the company involved is too great so they settle. In the end that cost is passed on to the consumer though, so we all end up paying for a few people's greed and ignorance. Nvidia lied about much more than vram. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Members BTM_Pix Posted July 12, 2019 Author Super Members Share Posted July 12, 2019 40 minutes ago, Mokara said: Easy enough to test, just switch their SSD for a regular one and see if it works. If RED are using custom firmware, it would fall under copywrite protection, so they would be well within their rights to sue you if you copied the firmware to a new SSD. He does actually do this in the video (starts at 8:40) with a regular Micron Crucial SSD with a different earlier firmware. He tests it in the camera which recognises it as a RED product then flashes the newer firmware that is indicated on the real RED product (obtained from Micron's public site) and it is again identified in the camera as being a RED product. What he doesn't do though is actually record on it. If I was him and out to fully prove something like this in a video then I can't really think of a reason why I wouldn't press Record. KnightsFan and webrunner5 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightsFan Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 2 hours ago, Mokara said: They would not have spent the money designing the drives themselves, but rather on designing the system as it relates to the drives. And yes, millions is not an unreasonable number for something like that. That is the cost of a team of 7-8 engineers for a year I was primarily joking in my post. But to clarify, the posts by RED in the past have implied that the millions in R&D went into designing and optimizing custom firmware on the minimag drives, whereas the video argues (quite convincingly, imho) that they are ordinary micron drives running micron firmware. After the video was released, RED's statements subtly switch to saying the millions was actually for camera firmware, not custom minimag firmware. andrgl, sanveer and IronFilm 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightsFan Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 I have absolutely 0 issue with a company making markups or only allowing proprietary media. I personally do not buy into closed ecosystems, but I respect their decisions. What I have a problem with is if Red makes false claims, both about their own products, and the third party alternatives. Here's Land's quotes: Quote For our media, we developed our own IP and Firmware and spent millions of dollars testing, certifying and QC every media card that we ship...For some random company to hack and duplicate our IP and our firmware (which is the only way they could do this) is exactly like someone stealing your films and calling them their own and selling them to others. From the video, it appears that Jinni Tech simply used micron drives with standard micron firmware downloaded from micron's website. No duplication of Red IP or firmware, and no hacking. Furthermore, Jinni claims that Red never had any custom firmware on their drives in the first place, and that RED itself simply uses micron drives and firmware. I think most readers would assume that the quote "For our media, we developed our own IP and Firmware" refers to developing the firmware of the drive itself. So if it turns out that Red uses standard micron firmware, as Jinni claims, then Red lied on both counts. Using approved, RED-brand media will be worth it to some people, no matter the cost, and no matter the firmware used. And for other people, cheaper alternatives will be worth the risk. But both parties need to be honest about what they are selling. If it turns out that Jinni "hacked and duplicated" Red IP, then they should be shut down and/or fined. If, on the other hand, Red has slandered Jinni and lied about the quality of their own products, then Red should face consequences as well. IronFilm 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emanuel Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 On 7/6/2019 at 4:24 PM, BTM_Pix said: To be fair to him, he's only repeating the truth with the same frequency as his accusers were repeating the "alternative facts". Alternative facts... Priceless expression! LOL ; ) On 7/6/2019 at 4:37 PM, BTM_Pix said: He doesn't deserve it? (...) I think he deserves to be able to make it into a 5 part mini-series after all that. To you... to pay you a beer, paid by each one of us, is still too little considering the level of entertainment you've offered us in each one of your usual pearls : ) You'd end completely drunk, I must warn you, though! : -D On 7/6/2019 at 9:37 PM, Snowfun said: I posted the video on the RED Hydrogen forum - didn’t last long before it got removed! How many seconds? LMAO : -) BTM_Pix 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 13 hours ago, Mokara said: They would not have spent the money designing the drives themselves, but rather on designing the system as it relates to the drives. And yes, millions is not an unreasonable number for something like that. That is the cost of a team of 7-8 engineers for a year. That's money to develop the RED camera itself. But to develop the redmags themselves? That is not a team of eight engineers for a whole year, no way. 13 hours ago, Mokara said: Easy enough to test, just switch their SSD for a regular one and see if it works. You missed my point, if RED has merely tweaked a bit here or there then technically that is "custom firmware" but no reasonable person would believe the claim that is truly "customized firmware" in the honest sense. 12 hours ago, BTM_Pix said: If I was him and out to fully prove something like this in a video then I can't really think of a reason why I wouldn't press Record. With how long his first video is, I bet if he had pressed record then instead of being a 14 minute video.... it would be a 14 hour long video of him talking about it! ha Well, that is why he is releasing this as a multi part series. So from his perspective at least, you can see a very good reason why he didn't press record. 10 hours ago, KnightsFan said: I was primarily joking in my post. But to clarify, the posts by RED in the past have implied that the millions in R&D went into designing and optimizing custom firmware on the minimag drives, whereas the video argues (quite convincingly, imho) that they are ordinary micron drives running micron firmware. After the video was released, RED's statements subtly switch to saying the millions was actually for camera firmware, not custom minimag firmware. Yup, this entire saga has proved what liars RED are. Blatant liars with no shame whatsoever, them and their fanboys on reduser. Can we ever really truly believe that RED says and claims in future years? For me their statements will now always have a very big question mark over them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Members BTM_Pix Posted July 13, 2019 Author Super Members Share Posted July 13, 2019 36 minutes ago, IronFilm said: With how long his first video is, I bet if he had pressed record then instead of being a 14 minute video.... it would be a 14 hour long video of him talking about it! ha Well, that is why he is releasing this as a multi part series. So from his perspective at least, you can see a very good reason why he didn't press record. Yeah, I suppose its one way of sending a message - "Buy me out Jim or I'll show them that it records as well" I'm eagerly awaiting the next episode but he needs to get on with it as he is still leaving that doubt in the air of regarding whether the mags that he is actually selling do contain an extracted firmware. What he really needs to be doing of course is fabricating an SSD side panel for the RED ONE ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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