Panasonic S1 V-LOG -- New image quality king of the hill

[webrunner5]

If you can't see that the Panasonic S1 has Way better output than the Z6 I think you just need to find another means of work. Well we will all be dead before Raw comes to the Z6 I would imagine. Red has probably said F U. And I don't give a flying rats ass about the Photography side. They screwed up the CS so bad on it I would Never want to shoot with it for that reason alone..

[1Ale82]

9 hours ago, Cliff Totten said:

Why do camera companies HATE admitting they are buying common Sony sensors for their cameras? Is it really THAT embarassing?

Probably because the sensor is considered by the general opinion as the very heart of a camera. And nobody wants to say that the core of his project is made by somebody else

[Skip77]

2 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

If you can't see that the Panasonic S1 has Way better output than the Z6 I think you just need to find another means of work. Well we will all be dead before Raw comes to the Z6 I would imagine. Red has probably said F U. And I don't give a flying rats ass about the Photography side. They screwed up the CS so bad on it I would Never want to shoot with it for that reason alone..

You're flat out wrong. Nikon's color science is Nikon.  (you're the guy that defended Sony's color science just last week).

I posted samples of test video I shout with my Z6 and you say nothing. Why is that? 

I haven't shot with the S1 but the comparisons I have seen and video from the S1 looks very close to the Z6.  I said this from day one. You have shot, graded or worked with any Z6 or S1 footage. Put up some links that back up your comments. 

I have as good an eye as anyone else and to be honest I hope the S1 is better then the Z6.  I'm all for that.  

Nikon just released firmware 2.01 and this is from Nikon that never did this in the past. 12 bit RAW Pro Res is coming and RED has nothing to do with it. RED can't stop Pro Res RAW.

Take a look down this page and see that little Nikon Z6 on the page.

https://www.atomos.com/proresraw

[Lukas Kalinowski]

Hello Guys! can som one who has LUMIX s1 or used this along with Nikon z6 can tell me about pros / cons between those two models ( VIDEO ONLY ) Will S1 will have more cons over nikon z6 in terms of grading and internal 60/50p (fullHD) ?  I have to choose 2 new body for run & gun documentary for one year of shooting. Nikon z6 or Lumix s1 are two competitor (I have gh5 and this is beast but low light must be usable over 1600 in gh5 its not gonna happened). My Ursa g2 will be to big and too heavy, my pocket 4K is great but this time I need IBIS as hell. Any ideas? Thanks! 

[1Ale82]

39 minutes ago, Lukas Kalinowski said:

Hello Guys! can som one who has LUMIX s1 or used this along with Nikon z6 can tell me about pros / cons between those two models ( VIDEO ONLY ) Will S1 will have more cons over nikon z6 in terms of grading and internal 60/50p (fullHD) ?  I have to choose 2 new body for run & gun documentary for one year of shooting. Nikon z6 or Lumix s1 are two competitor (I have gh5 and this is beast but low light must be usable over 1600 in gh5 its not gonna happened). My Ursa g2 will be to big and too heavy, my pocket 4K is great but this time I need IBIS as hell. Any ideas? Thanks! 

I would pick a S1 (and I will), mainly for the VLOG, ergonomics and pixel shift. Since you already have a Gh5, you are already familiar with panasonic bodies and you can use on both camera the small audio interface with XLR inputs. 

Also, what about lenses? You say the Ursa is too big and heavy, so you want to go light. Are you going to keep your Gh5? If yes and you want to go with native mount lenses, you will have a lot of gear to carry around (and money to invest). If you go with adatped lenses, I would pick a S1 also in this case since you bypass the main criticism on this camera, which is AF in video but retain the other advantages versus the Z6.

[Zeng]

1 hour ago, Lukas Kalinowski said:

Hello Guys! can som one who has LUMIX s1 or used this along with Nikon z6 can tell me about pros / cons between those two models ( VIDEO ONLY ) Will S1 will have more cons over nikon z6 in terms of grading and internal 60/50p (fullHD) ?  I have to choose 2 new body for run & gun documentary for one year of shooting. Nikon z6 or Lumix s1 are two competitor (I have gh5 and this is beast but low light must be usable over 1600 in gh5 its not gonna happened). My Ursa g2 will be to big and too heavy, my pocket 4K is great but this time I need IBIS as hell. Any ideas? Thanks! 

Hi. Right now the only advantage you'd get with Panasonic S1 versus Nikon Z6 is shooting 10 bit 4:2:2 internally. That is, if you want to be extremely undercover with your gear, just a small camera in your hand, no ext. recorder etc. Oh, and that 4K 60p that is so important to some. Not me. Other than that they share the same sensor. Contrary to what some guys keep repeating here, Nikon's Z6 external output is very high quality 10bit, giving 12 stops of dynamic range. Color science is actually excellent. I've yet to do a comparison with Panasonic S1, but I managed to tweak Nikon N-log colors to a LUT that matches Alexa colors very closely. Skin tones look great. Overall, this is a great camera that is unfortunate to be built by Nikon. Which is not regarded as a company you'd associate with video. It's amazing how Sony's A7RIV manages to get attention while offering nothing even close to Z6 in video dept. Apparently it's all about brand names... 

[Geoff_L]

49 minutes ago, Lukas Kalinowski said:

Hello Guys! can som one who has LUMIX s1 or used this along with Nikon z6 can tell me about pros / cons between those two models ( VIDEO ONLY ) Will S1 will have more cons over nikon z6 in terms of grading and internal 60/50p (fullHD) ?  I have to choose 2 new body for run & gun documentary for one year of shooting. Nikon z6 or Lumix s1 are two competitor (I have gh5 and this is beast but low light must be usable over 1600 in gh5 its not gonna happened). My Ursa g2 will be to big and too heavy, my pocket 4K is great but this time I need IBIS as hell. Any ideas? Thanks! 

Hi Lukas ! I used the z6 for around 5 months and briefly got a S1 10 days ago (had to sent it back cause my unit was defective, and I am waiting for the new kit to arrive).
I won't compare both too much because I only used the S1 for test shots, and I want to use the S1 as much as the Z6 to forge my opinion. But you mention you need IBIS as hell, so if this is a number one request, I think you should go for the S1.

I was debating between buying a Z6 again or opt for the S1. I weighted both a lot and tried to make the most rational choice given my type of work. My priorities are : build quality, handling and "sealing", IBIS, internal great videos capabilities, lenses choice and adapting possibilities. It is really a tough choice, but I ultimately choose the S1, right after the V-LOG free upgrade.

I really really liked the Z6 IBIS (you can find my impressions/mini reviews in the Z6 forum post, back in November/December), but the S1 is a lot more effective for me. I do not use IBIS as a replacement for a gimbal, but for stabilizing me during static shot while hiking/skiing, and for long lens use (wildlife, distant landscape etc.). The DUAL IS of the S1 is close if not similar to the one found in the G9 (which, I believe, is better than the GH5). I was initially really excited by the Z6 raw update, but time has passed, and I do not want to use an external monitor (for what I do, it would be a nightmare). So the V-LOG upgrade finished to sell me on the S1.

Otherwise, here are what I think, quickly : S1 + 24-05 is really bigger and heavier than the Z6 + 24-70, handling on the Z6 is superb, on the S1 as well (I prefer the bigger body of the latter), more lenses choices for Nikon if you consider adapting Nikon G, AF is really really good on the Z6 (I know I will loose that advantage with the S1, but not a critical point to me), coming Sigma native L lenses + adapted canon via MC-21 (limitations have to be taken into account) is perfect for me (most useful lenses for me are some Canon's ones).

So, yeah, won't help you a lot ? But IBIS, V-LOG upgrade, perfect body and handling sold me. Oh, and I don't think there is a wrong choice here, as both are wonderful cameras.

[webrunner5]

6 hours ago, Skip77 said:

 

 RED has nothing to do with it. RED can't stop Pro Res RAW.

Sure if you don't want to compress it then go ahead. Red can't stop that. But you are paying Apple for every camera and recorder sold also just to use ProRes Raw. Add Red to the mix and hell you might be talking big bucks. And over HDMI you are going to have to compress the living hell out of it. That is where Red has Nikon, Atomos by the balls.

If Red doesn't get the money they demand from Every Nikon sale, Every Atomos sale it will NEVER happen. And even then they might say piss on you, we don't Need your stinking money. When it comes to Raw Compression Red has every patent in the world tied up on that stuff. They were even ahead of Arri on that stuff. Red has been in the Digital camera business for a LONG time. They shit around for years, Oh it will be next, year, no it will be 2 years, on and on before they even finally bought out the Red One. But they had patents going Way back. I know, I had one on order for what seemed like Years, and finally gave up. I had to move on.

[Patrick B.]

Anyone know what video controls are available in the Lumix Link mobile app? I got the impression it was limited compared to GH. Wondering if you can shoot 10-bit v-log in all the frame rates. 

Was gonna run over to Best Buy to test but it seems they don’t have an S series in stock. 

[Skip77]

57 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

Sure if you don't want to compress it then go ahead. Red can't stop that. But you are paying Apple for every camera and recorder sold also just to use ProRes Raw. Add Red to the mix and hell you might be talking big bucks. And over HDMI you are going to have to compress the living hell out of it. That is where Red has Nikon, Atomos by the balls.

If Red doesn't get the money they demand from Every Nikon sale, Every Atomos sale it will NEVER happen. And even then they might say piss on you, we don't Need your stinking money. When it comes to Raw Compression Red has every patent in the world tied up on that stuff. They were even ahead of Arri on that stuff. Red has been in the Digital camera business for a LONG time. They shit around for years, Oh it will be next, year, no it will be 2 years, on and on before they even finally bought out the Red One. But they had patents going Way back. I know, I had one on order for what seemed like Years, and finally gave up. I had to move on.

What are you talking about?

Nikon to Atomos to Pro Res RAW is what were talking about.  

RED RAW to Atomos will be the same issues for any camera maker including Nikon, Sony and others for RED to approve. Nikons RAW is Pro Res and nothing to do with RED.

Nikon has already shown Pro Res 12 bit RAW footage from the Z6 and it was't compressed to hell.  You can articulate what your talking about because technically you're not up to date on Nikon RAW and what's been show or how it will work. 

Pro Res RAW is already out on the market thru Apple and RED didn't stop it did they?  Who controls the market RED or Apple?

Seriously give up on the Nikon hate because they delivered a great camera and great video from a camera that shares the same Sony sensor as the S1. Your post are You Tube influencer hatred for no reason. 

And again Nikon just released it's third firmware update for the Z6.  As of now they are keeping the schedule as promised. 

4 hours ago, Geoff_L said:

Hi Lukas ! I used the z6 for around 5 months and briefly got a S1 10 days ago (had to sent it back cause my unit was defective, and I am waiting for the new kit to arrive).
I won't compare both too much because I only used the S1 for test shots, and I want to use the S1 as much as the Z6 to forge my opinion. But you mention you need IBIS as hell, so if this is a number one request, I think you should go for the S1.

I was debating between buying a Z6 again or opt for the S1. I weighted both a lot and tried to make the most rational choice given my type of work. My priorities are : build quality, handling and "sealing", IBIS, internal great videos capabilities, lenses choice and adapting possibilities. It is really a tough choice, but I ultimately choose the S1, right after the V-LOG free upgrade.

I really really liked the Z6 IBIS (you can find my impressions/mini reviews in the Z6 forum post, back in November/December), but the S1 is a lot more effective for me. I do not use IBIS as a replacement for a gimbal, but for stabilizing me during static shot while hiking/skiing, and for long lens use (wildlife, distant landscape etc.). The DUAL IS of the S1 is close if not similar to the one found in the G9 (which, I believe, is better than the GH5). I was initially really excited by the Z6 raw update, but time has passed, and I do not want to use an external monitor (for what I do, it would be a nightmare). So the V-LOG upgrade finished to sell me on the S1.

Otherwise, here are what I think, quickly : S1 + 24-05 is really bigger and heavier than the Z6 + 24-70, handling on the Z6 is superb, on the S1 as well (I prefer the bigger body of the latter), more lenses choices for Nikon if you consider adapting Nikon G, AF is really really good on the Z6 (I know I will loose that advantage with the S1, but not a critical point to me), coming Sigma native L lenses + adapted canon via MC-21 (limitations have to be taken into account) is perfect for me (most useful lenses for me are some Canon's ones).

So, yeah, won't help you a lot ? But IBIS, V-LOG upgrade, perfect body and handling sold me. Oh, and I don't think there is a wrong choice here, as both are wonderful cameras.

Hey Geoff_L - I know you don't want to compare the S1 and Z6 yet but can you give any feedback on how the S1 video was compared to the Z6? 

And has the S1 been used on a gimbal yet or is the weight and size an issue?

[webrunner5]

8 minutes ago, Skip77 said:

What are you talking about?

Nikon to Atomos to Pro Res RAW is what were talking about.  

RED RAW to Atomos will be the same issues for any camera maker including Nikon, Sony and others for RED to approve. Nikons RAW is Pro Res and nothing to do with RED.

Nikon has already shown Pro Res 12 bit RAW footage from the Z6 and it was't compressed to hell.  You can articulate what your talking about because technically you're not up to date on Nikon RAW and what's been show or how it will work. 

Pro Res RAW is already out on the market thru Apple and RED didn't stop it did they?  Who controls the market RED or Apple?

Seriously give up on the Nikon hate because they delivered a great camera and great video from a camera that shares the same Sony sensor as the S1. Your post are You Tube influencer hatred for no reason. 

And again Nikon just released it's third firmware update for the Z6.  As of now they are keeping the schedule as promised. 

 

You Have to be 11 years old. YOU don't know shit about this stuff. Why do you keep making an ass of yourself? I pray you comment everyday so I can just laugh my butt off lol.

[Skip77]

6 hours ago, Lukas Kalinowski said:

Hello Guys! can som one who has LUMIX s1 or used this along with Nikon z6 can tell me about pros / cons between those two models ( VIDEO ONLY ) Will S1 will have more cons over nikon z6 in terms of grading and internal 60/50p (fullHD) ?  I have to choose 2 new body for run & gun documentary for one year of shooting. Nikon z6 or Lumix s1 are two competitor (I have gh5 and this is beast but low light must be usable over 1600 in gh5 its not gonna happened). My Ursa g2 will be to big and too heavy, my pocket 4K is great but this time I need IBIS as hell. Any ideas? Thanks! 

Hey Lukas -

I haven't used the S1 yet.  I have used the Z6 on commercial video gigs and even next to the FS7. 

Advantages of the Z6:

- AF tracking is great in video

- Adapted lens selection is massive  

- IBIS is solid - I think the S1 might be better but source footage from he S1 showed the same issues as the Z6 (neither is perfect as you get digital image morph on the S1 at times)

- 12 bit RAW Pro Res is coming so that could be important if you need it

 

 

8 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

You Have to be 11 years old. YOU don't know shit about this stuff. Why do you keep making an ass of yourself? I pray you comment everyday so I can just laugh my butt off lol.

Back up your talk then webrunner5.  

You keep talking like Jethro who's taking to many shots last night.

Please post links on where you get all your knowledge and how Nikon is full of it for telling everyone they are giving the the Z6 12 bit RAW capabilities.  I've asked you over and over to explain yourself and you go on a long RED rant that at some point had ordered and then changed your mind because they were talking too long. 

You don't make sense and you don't back up anything technical with facts or proof. 

You vocabulary has been plastic faces, crushed darks, and it sucks ass.  You probably also said "shit color" over when you defended Sony over Canon a week ago.

Please share you knowledge and tech us all.  

 

 

[webrunner5]

My "knowledge" spans 35, 40 years of doing this stuff real time. Reading Tons of articles, working with Pro people for years at times for a living. Asking real questions at rental houses, repair techs, on and on. You don't learn this stuff in a year, even 10 years unless you are some gifted as hell person. You Have to go out and do it. Experience the wins and loses. Regret the dumb ass equipment you thought was good, remember the surprises on the good stuff you bought. You learn from all of it. That is gained knowledge.

  I am sure I am far, far from the smartest person on here, especially with the newer stuff. But I have been there done it for probably as long as you have been alive. That's why I know and why.

Why don't you read, if you can read, this little article about what Red did to Sony. And see if Red doesn't have all the power in the world to stop little old Nikon dead in their tracks.

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/343675

[Skip77]

3 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

I am sure I am far, far from the smartest person on here, especially with the newer stuff. But I have been there done it for probably as long as you have been alive. That's why I know and why.

That's my point.  You don't know the newer stuff but you jump around like you do. 

Again post WHAT THE RENTAL HOUSES SAY. Please. I want to hear that one.  

Rental houses aren't touching the Z6 or S1 right now and they rent cine gear. They also know as much as we do on RE RAW and Pro Res RAW and legally what issues hav happened or might happen. 

Rental houses will get into the S1H and then the S1 because the cost to rig these out hits that rental mark. 

DP's are great tat the craft they do and they have knowledge that is valuable but they also get left behind by technology so much that they don't shoot anymore. I know 70 year old DP's that are still shooting in Hollywood.  I also know DP's that are technical shooters that have no cinematic bone in their body. 

You say you don't give a rats ass about photography but photography and cinematography are connected.

That's were you come off as a non creative shooter and not a cinematographer. . 

 

 

 

 

 

5 hours ago, Zeng said:

Hi. Right now the only advantage you'd get with Panasonic S1 versus Nikon Z6 is shooting 10 bit 4:2:2 internally. That is, if you want to be extremely undercover with your gear, just a small camera in your hand, no ext. recorder etc. Oh, and that 4K 60p that is so important to some. Not me. Other than that they share the same sensor. Contrary to what some guys keep repeating here, Nikon's Z6 external output is very high quality 10bit, giving 12 stops of dynamic range. Color science is actually excellent. I've yet to do a comparison with Panasonic S1, but I managed to tweak Nikon N-log colors to a LUT that matches Alexa colors very closely. Skin tones look great. Overall, this is a great camera that is unfortunate to be built by Nikon. Which is not regarded as a company you'd associate with video. It's amazing how Sony's A7RIV manages to get attention while offering nothing even close to Z6 in video dept. Apparently it's all about brand names... 

Good post Zeng. 

It goes to show people on this board with watch You Tube influencers and drink the Sony Kool-aid but not be able to weed thru the bull that's been thrown at the Z6.  The Z6 is as solid as the S1 from what Ive seen.

 

[webrunner5]

See I get to laugh my Butt off again. Keep it coming. And to the people that don't know nothing. Welcome to life. There are great people and average people. Imagine my surprise.

There are pretty damn smart people on here even, and some that aren't. You seem to be falling in the latter category. Hey you will learn with time and patience, and trusting some people on here more than the horseshit you learn for most YouTube sights on this subject, etc.etc., and pretending you know it all. It would seem you don't.

I don't know it all, but I know a lot more of what you are pretending to know about the subject. You think this is the first time this has ever happened? That happened 5 years ago! Did you read the F ing article? That didn't just happen yesterday. News Alert, Red has Raw Compression, and has had it locked up.

[Cliff Totten]

10 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

If you can't see that the Panasonic S1 has Way better output than the Z6 I think you just need to find another means of work. Well we will all be dead before Raw comes to the Z6 I would imagine. Red has probably said F U. And I don't give a flying rats ass about the Photography side. They screwed up the CS so bad on it I would Never want to shoot with it for that reason alone..

Andrew,....IBC 2019 is next month. I'm certain that it's going to be a HUGE show this year for you guys on that side of the world. I think everybody is going to drop their bomb shell all at once there.

A7S-III? IBC and NAB have always been the place for this model line.

Lumix S1H - full launch with 6k raw over HDMI?

Nikon Z6 - raw over HDMI firmware rollout. (Atomos has CLEARLY said they the are ready for HDMI raw protocol for ProResRAW recording,...they are saying that it's Nikon's developers that they are waiting on.)

Sigma - Cine camera full launch with 4k or 6k raw announcement.

Atomos Ninja V- Announcement of S1 and 4k raw (super35 frame) support for the Lumix S1 and Nikon Z6.

Atomos Shogun 7 - Announcement of full frame 6k raw support for the S1H and maybe Sigma.

CT

 

[andjo]

1 hour ago, Patrick B. said:

Anyone know what video controls are available in the Lumix Link mobile app? I got the impression it was limited compared to GH. Wondering if you can shoot 10-bit v-log in all the frame rates. 

Was gonna run over to Best Buy to test but it seems they don’t have an S series in stock. 

You are sort of right. In Lumix Sync App It's possible to select 10-bit but if you connect to your S1 when it's in slow motion/VFR mode you can't seem to change frame rates from within the app which is a bit odd? Other than that it seems to be fairly similar to the Image App. EDIT: Seems to be no possibility to view fullscreen in landscape mode, that is a bit annoying as they had the same issue in the beginning with the Image App.

I've only tested it once so no expert, but I've attached a few screenshots.

Panasonic has actually been quite good in improving their app if you make your voice heard, I'm not sure if they actually read e-mails but if you make a forum post or post in the comment section on their facebook pages (on what you are feeling is left out and why it would benefit their app) they seem to have some coordinator that takes notes and routes them to the correct people within their organisation (which is good!). 

My biggest wish right now from Panasonic is that they seriously would take into consideration to add manual exposure in the VFR mode, it's really bugging me because other than that it's a really good camera. I would actually pay extra to get that limitation removed ?

  

   

  

 

The last screenshots is how it looks when you connect to your camera when it's in VFR mode. All frame rate options disappears.

[Skip77]

12 minutes ago, Cliff Totten said:

Andrew,....IBC 2019 is next month. I'm certain that it's going to be a HUGE show this year for you guys on that side of the world. I think everybody is going to drop their bomb shell all at once there.

A7S-III? IBC and NAB have always been the place for this model line.

Lumix S1H - full launch with 6k raw over HDMI?

Nikon Z6 - raw over HDMI firmware rollout. (Atomos has CLEARLY said they the are ready for HDMI raw protocol for ProResRAW recording,...they are saying that it's Nikon's developers that they are waiting on.)

Sigma - Cine camera full launch with 4k or 6k raw announcement.

Atomos Ninja V- Announcement of S1 and 4k raw (super35 frame) support for the Lumix S1 and Nikon Z6.

Atomos Shogun 7 - Announcement of full frame 6k raw support for the S1H and maybe Sigma.

CT

 

Thanks Cliff

If you look at the latest firmware from Nikon for the Z6, they fixed a lot of smaller issues that seemed like house cleaning.  It may not be connected to Pro ResRAW but it's good they addressed issues and updated the firmware. 

Once the Pro ResRAW is released for the Z6 would it be better to get the Shogun 7 over the Ninja V?

Does anyone know the price point of the Sigma cine camera?  

It seem like Sony opened a can of whoop ass on itself with selling the IMX410 to the competitors.  Why? because all these other companies are beating Sony to the market with cine cameras that out perform Sony cameras. It makes you wonder what Sony's game plan is.

 

[Skip77]

 

Sony Shares Specs for Six Full-Frame Sensors, Including a Quad Bayer Chip

https://petapixel.com/2019/07/25/sony-shares-specs-for-six-full-frame-sensors-including-a-quad-bayer-chip/

 

[Geoff_L]

19 hours ago, Geo said:

 

What about the ibis ? is it really in par with the GH5 ? It seem's to me a bit more jerky...But i i was not able to test it on long term .))  So....can you give us your feeling ?

Georges

With the very short tests I performed, with the 24-105, so DUAL IS enabled, it appeared to me on par with the G9. But I only tried very short stuffs... like static "tripod like" ones at 24 and 105, and I got the same feeling as with the G9. I found it less jerky than the Z6, but it would be logical, given the greater room for movement !
I also watched a couple of videos were it seemed to be more jerky, but it was with canon adapted lenses.  I will try it more as soon as I receive my new kit !