Z Cam + ZILR

[Brooke ZILR]

Hey,

I've had a loaner Z Cam E2 and what a great piece of tech.

- High Speed Frame Rates

- Lots of mounting points

- Internal ProRes

- No stupid grip handle hanging off the side when on a tripod.

 

I wanted to know what the EOSHD community/users thought of it, seems it's a bit of a face off between this and the Pocket 4K, both have pros and cons.

Thanks!

-Brooke

www.zilr.pro

[austinchimp]

How have you found the audio? It's one of the areas I'm a little apprehensive about, and one I haven't had time to dig into properly.

[Anaconda_]

I like the look and ideas of the Z Cam, but also feel there's too many versions of it, which makes it hard to really pin down the model you like. Some features are handy in certain situations, but are they worth buying a whole new camera over? It's almost like they've announced too much too quickly.

Also, it looks very much like you're here to sell HDMI cables.

 

[Brooke ZILR]

51 minutes ago, austinchimp said:

How have you found the audio? It's one of the areas I'm a little apprehensive about, and one I haven't had time to dig into properly.

To be honest, I have always used an external audio recorder and also looped it out to an Atomos recorder via XLR. I do Like that it has XLR on the camera, it's something I will have to test. 

[Brooke ZILR]

31 minutes ago, Anaconda_ said:

I like the look and ideas of the Z Cam, but also feel there's too many versions of it, which makes it hard to really pin down the model you like. Some features are handy in certain situations, but are they worth buying a whole new camera over? It's almost like they've announced too much too quickly.

Also, it looks very much like you're here to sell HDMI cables.

 

I only just heard there's an E2C or something like that, that is cut down version. I'm not sure if that was announced prior to the 6K and 8K news, but it was certainly lost in all the hype of the other versions.

One good thing Z Cam do have going for them is that they are proactively doing firmware releases with the E2 and not leaving it for dead. So that's a good sign, you don't get that with the larger players.

 

Has anyone shot with their WDR yet? Does it have better results in the Log curve?

[IronFilm]

22 hours ago, Anaconda_ said:

I like the look and ideas of the Z Cam, but also feel there's too many versions of it, which makes it hard to really pin down the model you like.

It's not that hard to figure out (Z Cam has far less models than say Panasonic/Sony/RED/BMD!). 

Z Cam has:
Various 360VR cameras (ignore if you're into VR). 
E1 (their oldest MFT camera)
E2 (their most popular one at the moment)
E2C (a cut down low priced E2)
Various as yet unreleased cameras which are S35/FF (plus a GS 1" camera)

22 hours ago, Brooke ZILR said:

One good thing Z Cam do have going for them is that they are proactively doing firmware releases with the E2 and not leaving it for dead. So that's a good sign, you don't get that with the larger players.

 

They have been very good in looking after the E2, it can now do 160fps 4K!

[tweak]

On 7/23/2019 at 6:49 AM, Anaconda_ said:

I like the look and ideas of the Z Cam, but also feel there's too many versions of it, which makes it hard to really pin down the model you like. Some features are handy in certain situations, but are they worth buying a whole new camera over? It's almost like they've announced too much too quickly.

Also, it looks very much like you're here to sell HDMI cables.

 

You're right, they should stick to one model like every other camera company...

[Anaconda_]

Wouldn't it be better to pay more money for a more fleshed out camera, instead of having to choose which features you value most out of 4 bodies? Z-cam are competing against themselves by announcing so many great cameras so quickly with each one having something special none of the others do. 

I don't believe the full frame or 35mm versions aren't powerful enough to do 160fps 4k, even if it's cropped to the same size as the e2s sensor in doing it. But as far as I know they've not included it. So now any buyer's choice on the e2 range is:

FF 8k

FF 6k

s35 6k

MFT 4k with great slow mo.

Really the FF8k should be able to do all of the above... it's got to have the same or better processor etc. than the rest anyway. So, have they purposefully limited the more powerful camera? I get different versions is a good thing, and other companies do it too, but in my opinion, this many models is excessive. It makes it harder to decided which specs you need or want over others, and then you need to worry about is 6k worth the extra money if you lose slow motion because of it? 

All that said, each one of them is a fantastic camera and I'm glad the boundaries are being pushed, however for the foreseeable future, I won't be buying any of them, so my thoughts are basically irrelevant anyway ? 

[IronFilm]

2 hours ago, Anaconda_ said:

I don't believe the full frame or 35mm versions aren't powerful enough to do 160fps 4k, even if it's cropped to the same size as the e2s sensor in doing it. But as far as I know they've not included it.

High speed and large sensor are quite often conflicting goals. 

Thus you'll need to either go UP IN PRICE, or compromise somewhere in some area of "quality". 

 

2 hours ago, Anaconda_ said:

but in my opinion, this many models is excessive.

Half a dozen models is still nowhere near as many models as Blackmagic / Sony / Panasonic / etc have. 

[Mattias Burling]

Seems like a really cool camera and I've come close to buying it sometimes. Whats holding me back are weird design choices like for example the HDMI making a battery swap almost impossible without disconnecting the screen. And that the C-Fast door is difficult to reach in a cage or with a handle. But most of all I just hate h.265, with a passion.

The image seems nice, just wished there where more clips floating around so one could evaluate it better in an NLE.
Also the crop factors in different codecs/speeds are still a bit of a mystery. Even when asking straight up to the reviewers online they give floaty answers, I don't thing they know for sure themselves.

[tweak]

6 hours ago, Mattias Burling said:

Seems like a really cool camera and I've come close to buying it sometimes. Whats holding me back are weird design choices like for example the HDMI making a battery swap almost impossible without disconnecting the screen. And that the C-Fast door is difficult to reach in a cage or with a handle. But most of all I just hate h.265, with a passion.

The image seems nice, just wished there where more clips floating around so one could evaluate it better in an NLE.
Also the crop factors in different codecs/speeds are still a bit of a mystery. Even when asking straight up to the reviewers online they give floaty answers, I don't thing they know for sure themselves.

Swapping batteries is actually super simple, it looks like it would be an issue but once you've done it you realise it's easy.

With a smallrig cage Cfast is easy to get to. Mount your handle on the nato rail with a quick release and it's less of an issue (I've found myself hardly shooting with the side handle anymore though).

Image is great. You're right that not much good footage is floating about, it's something that held me back as well.

Crop factor is the same for all codecs/speeds as far as I can see, the only change is if you use the 2.7K super16 crop mode. 

You're correct that most reviews online for the cam are rubbish.

[KnightsFan]

7 hours ago, Mattias Burling said:

But most of all I just hate h.265, with a passion.

The E2 has ProRes as well (and 8 bit H.264, fwiw). ProRes is either pending Apple's approval or already available on the other models as well. Raw should come at some point.

7 hours ago, Mattias Burling said:

Even when asking straight up to the reviewers online they give floaty answers, I don't thing they know for sure themselves.

I don't think all the specs are finalized for the upcoming models, true. The E2 itself has no forced crop in any mode. You can turn on a Super 16 crop if you want, though I'm not sure all the framerate and resolution options for that mode.

10 hours ago, Anaconda_ said:

Really the FF8k should be able to do all of the above...

Are you sure the FF and APS-C Sony sensors they are using have those capabilities?

[Mako Sports]

I think its a dank little camera. If I was in the market for a cheap cinema I would totally pick it over the pocket 4k. Being a sports person I love having those higher frame rates.

[Mattias Burling]

12 hours ago, tweak said:

Swapping batteries is actually super simple, it looks like it would be an issue but once you've done it you realise it's easy.

Might depend on the size of battery?

12 hours ago, tweak said:

With a smallrig cage Cfast is easy to get to. Mount your handle on the nato rail with a quick release and it's less of an issue (I've found myself hardly shooting with the side handle anymore though).

This I don't want to have to do to be honest. I could probably live with it. But the point for the C-fast over the ssd for me is easy access and quick turn around.

12 hours ago, tweak said:

Crop factor is the same for all codecs/speeds as far as I can see, the only change is if you use the 2.7K super16 crop mode. 

This is very good to know. First straight answer Ive gotten and I have asked a lot of reviewers. Thanks

11 hours ago, KnightsFan said:

The E2 has ProRes as well (and 8 bit H.264, fwiw). ProRes is either pending Apple's approval or already available on the other models as well. Raw should come at some point.

I know. But it so far doesn't have it in all frame rates, which are the main attraction over the BMPCC4K for my usage.
But since I recently sold my second BMPCC4K last week its main competition is now a Fuji for 120p. And then it might win

[thebrothersthre3]

8 hours ago, Mattias Burling said:

Might depend on the size of battery?

This I don't want to have to do to be honest. I could probably live with it. But the point for the C-fast over the ssd for me is easy access and quick turn around.

This is very good to know. First straight answer Ive gotten and I have asked a lot of reviewers. Thanks

I know. But it so far doesn't have it in all frame rates, which are the main attraction over the BMPCC4K for my usage.
But since I recently sold my second BMPCC4K last week its main competition is now a Fuji for 120p. And then it might win

My only wish is that Fuji had 10bit H264 or prores. The 120p is great though as long as your scene is fairly well lit. 

[KnightsFan]

8 hours ago, Mattias Burling said:

I know. But it so far doesn't have it in all frame rates, which are the main attraction over the BMPCC4K for my usage.
But since I recently sold my second BMPCC4K last week its main competition is now a Fuji for 120p. And then it might win

Fair. The P4K and XT3 are significantly cheaper as well.

[tweak]

I use the biggest NPF style batteries with the DC out for my Portkeys, no issue. Some smaller no name batteries I have don't fit as easy though.

[Mattias Burling]

3 hours ago, tweak said:

I use the biggest NPF style batteries with the DC out for my Portkeys, no issue. Some smaller no name batteries I have don't fit as easy though.

I wonder why it's no issue for you but others claim it is. Maybe it's the cable, what HDMI cable do you use?

[tweak]

46 minutes ago, Mattias Burling said:

I wonder why it's no issue for you but others claim it is. Maybe it's the cable, what HDMI cable do you use?

One that looks something like this - https://images.app.goo.gl/9bfiFRDZTzVposun9

[Brooke ZILR]

I haven’t tested 120 yet, but it’s on my list.

Anyone seen any good examples?

One thing I have noticed is that when recording 4K ProRes internally, you can only output to HD via HDMI while h.265 4K can output at 10-bit 4K to a display or Recorder like the Atomos.

I used to work at Atomos, but there’s something nice about recording ProRes internally on a camera.