Sony - the new Canon!

[Brian Williams]

34 minutes ago, Media Kat said:

What the hell more do you want them to add to it? instant upload to Instagram? This camera seems very feature packed and by features I do not mean gimmicks. So Far out of all the blogs and reviews this seems like the only negative one. Ergonomics is somewhat subjective, I like the feel of the line, but I also like the A7III.

As I mentioned earlier, I got a used RX100VA today, and its great. This new one that came out today is also great. I’m not one of the ones who are going to tear Sony a new one just because they released an incremental update. It would be nice if they fixed the awful menus, or put a damn grip on the camera, or brought back the ND filter, but either way, this new one is incrementally better than last year’s, so if you are buying for the first time it’s better than buying last years for the same price, and that’s good.

I think what everyone is saying here is that the hype that this thing is getting, when it’s only slightly better than last years, is a little ridiculous. These guys get flown to Venice, given a free unreleased camera to play with for a day, and then they turn around and upload a video acting like it’s the greatest thing they’ve ever seen (instead of just a slightly better version of the thing they played with last year around this time). If you go from a Prius to a Model X you’re probably going to be really excited. If you go from a 2018 Honda Accord to a 2019 Accord, not so much. This is that.

[Media Kat]

I don’t get the hate everyone has about the menus, though I think it might be complicated for those with years of familiarity with canon or Nikon. Even if you find the menus complicated and a user interface disaster, you can completely customize your own. As far as it being an incremental upgrade, again, what else should they add? If they waited another year they could add more features, though what is wrong with offering a new product every year? What is the upgrade cycle for most cameras? 2-5 years? If you like it buy it, if you don’t then buy last years at a discount. As far as the hype, I haven’t gone through all of the reviews and videos, but aren't these the same people being flown out for new canon releases and Nikon, so either they always share the same unnecessary over hyped reactions/reviews for all of the cameras or they genuinely like this one? I honestly do not know because I don’t follow the release of every camera. I get that this is not for everyone, but for me, a portable camera with eye focus for video that can be taken out of my pocket and quickly grab focus is amazing, and being that it shoots flat makes it great for color grading. If they could improve anything I would like a large sensor, though I am not sure if that is possible at this size, and if so, would it be so cost prohibitive to make it pointless? Do other portable cameras by other manufacturers have larger sensors? Maybe better low light performance might be good? Though how much tech can they fit into a small body? 

[Avenger 2.0]

I think Sony is even worse. Excluding sensor design, Canon does have some slight innovation. Think of touch-bar, lens control ring, drop-in ND-filter adapter, etc...

[Digitgio]

Is very strange that 10bit and 4K 60p is not added in this release. An iPhone can do 4K 60p and in my opinion there are no reason to add it on the cameras. The sensor they are using is capable of it looking at the still specs. I just waited to this new specs in the last to models but they are forcing me to still use the phone for normal use. I want to not mention about other stuff like anamorphic that with Moment lens I can do (with pretty good result) on the same phone... Andrew you are right they have a lack of fantasy, but I think is the Japanese way of thinking nowadays, time of Walkman, Game Boy, PlayStation, new hybrid cars are go and they really need to think at the future. 

[thebrothersthre3]

Makes little sense to me. Its not like 4k 60p on a small sensor like this will take away from bigger sensor sales. 

[Mattias Burling]

Its interesting to me that when the Youtube hype train was in full motion for the A7iii and GH5 everybody was on board, but not this time. My only guess its because this camera is not meant for the audience of this forum. 

And I seem to recall about 10,001 posts on this forum screaming for a mic jack in these types of cameras.
But jut like always, when we get it we immediately move the goal post.

Ive started shooting Polaroid again. Its liberating

[Jorgen Gerstel]

Dear Sony, you can also do Hoshin planning to find a break through. Then Kaizen events can be used to brainstorm and find solutions for the next level break through. Please visit Toyota in Japan, they are the experts in LEAN.

[Caleb Genheimer]

I’ve said it a few times already: BlackMagic should just do a $3K fullframe version of the Pocket4K and call it a day. Maybe add dual pixel AF. Electronic ND would be nice, but I’ve heard bad things about color shift on Sony’s internal one. (Apparently Panavision has an awesome one as a matte box filter.) I love that the Pocket is rigable/configurable. I actually prefer it over the Ursas which to me seem to have an awkward form factor.

[Mokara]

1 hour ago, Digitgio said:

Is very strange that 10bit and 4K 60p is not added in this release. An iPhone can do 4K 60p and in my opinion there are no reason to add it on the cameras. The sensor they are using is capable of it looking at the still specs. I just waited to this new specs in the last to models but they are forcing me to still use the phone for normal use. I want to not mention about other stuff like anamorphic that with Moment lens I can do (with pretty good result) on the same phone... Andrew you are right they have a lack of fantasy, but I think is the Japanese way of thinking nowadays, time of Walkman, Game Boy, PlayStation, new hybrid cars are go and they really need to think at the future. 

Your iPhone has a much better processor, that is why. The Sony processor is the same one they have been using the last 5 years. 

If it is the same processor. the video specs will be substantially the same. Not rocket science. Why do so many people have such a hard time understanding this basic concept?

4 minutes ago, Caleb Genheimer said:

I’ve said it a few times already: BlackMagic should just do a $3K fullframe version of the Pocket4K and call it a day. Maybe add dual pixel AF. Electronic ND would be nice, but I’ve heard bad things about color shift on Sony’s internal one. (Apparently Panavision has an awesome one as a matte box filter.) I love that the Pocket is rigable/configurable. I actually prefer it over the Ursas which to me seem to have an awkward form factor.

They cant add dual pixel AF because Canon would sue them and win.

[MrSMW]

1 hour ago, Digitgio said:

Is very strange that 10bit and 4K 60p is not added in this release. An iPhone can do 4K 60p and in my opinion there are no reason to add it on the cameras. The sensor they are using is capable of it looking at the still specs. I just waited to this new specs in the last to models but they are forcing me to still use the phone for normal use. I want to not mention about other stuff like anamorphic that with Moment lens I can do (with pretty good result) on the same phone... Andrew you are right they have a lack of fantasy, but I think is the Japanese way of thinking nowadays, time of Walkman, Game Boy, PlayStation, new hybrid cars are go and they really need to think at the future. 

10 bit will be the VIII (April 2020)

4k 60p will be the IX (Jan 2021)

Menu system will be updated for X (Oct 2021)

The 20 dollar stick on grip that's been available forever, will be offered with the XI (July 2022)

The ND filter will be reinstated with the XII (April 2023)

Merged with the Game Boy in Jan 2024.

I think the VA is still the sweet spot for the 100 series.

[Jrsisson]

It’s a shame Sony don’t kaizen the menus, colour science and ergonomics.. 

[Skip77]

14 hours ago, chrisE said:

The only thing you can do is complain and whine. Is that what a "wanna be" needs to hopefully grow up one day? Disappointing. Following your blog for quite some time now, but it get's worse post by post. Could you please stick with productive things instead of bashing companies (especially Sony) for new gear, you don't understand?

Andrew speaks the truth about Sony.  If the gloves are off with every other company then Sony is no different. 

Sony was leading the way giving up great products. Now who knows. 

[Cinegain]

What I don't like are three things... 1. The pricetag; this is not $1200 camera imho 2. The lens, it's not bright enough, fine for a travelzoom, but this is a camera that has started its life as a premium compact that's supposed to be an on-the-go DSLR surrogate for enthusiasts 3. They're way too obsessed keeping their cameras small, which only leads to issues (like heat dissipation), lack of features and poor ergonomics. Compact? Sure! Microsizing as an statement... nah, fam!

Otherwise, it's alright. They did add the flip-up this time around (though why on earth is the touchscreen application so limited, they make smartphones for crying out loud, they should've figured interface interaction out by now) and mic input (indeed nowhere to mount an ext. mic though), much following Canon's G7 X Mark III. The (C-)AF does seem rather spectacular (the new Canon does an horrendous job). And hey they didn't omit 24p.

If you want to be upset about an update not being an evolution let alone revolution, go bash Panasonic for their LX100 II. That should've been the little portable camera I was going to end up with, not the G7 X Mark III. Disappointing is an understatement, they could've taken care of Canon/Sony in that class once and for all.

I get Kasey from Cameraconspiracies has shown it's a success formula to provide the interw3bz with complaining and nittpicking (albeit for comedy effect, not out of bitterness), but to be fair, this is pretty much in line with any camera update, really. If anything, they overdelivered on my expectation (which still isn't good enough for me, but that's a different story).

Hope Nikon reconsiders developing the DL-line once more...

[IronFilm]

10 hours ago, OliKMIA said:

I can understand your frustration and you raised many valid concerns but what's the point? Nowadays we have so many options to choose from: Sony, Panasonic S or GH series, BMPCC4k, Fuji, Nikon Z, etc.

The video DSLR revolution was all about creativity for the masses (amateurs, indie and small prod). This is what triggered the inception of this blog I believe. That's it! We have everything we ever dreamed of: anybody can spend $3 or $4k and get an excellent 4K60 camera with decent lenses and add a drone on top of that. All of which fits in a backpack.

You can get a Mavic Pro for sub $800 (more than we could dream of in pre-HDSLR days!)
Gimbal for sub $500 (more than we could dream of in pre-HDSLR days!)
BMPCC4K for sub $1.3K (craaaaazy!)

Total cost for these three items? Not even $3K

[BTM_Pix]

12 hours ago, Laser Blue said:

I get the sense that Andrew has been spending time with tech disrupters (focus device prototype guy and others.)

I'm definitely getting myself a T shirt with that on it.

With regard to the hype around this new camera, its a subtle point but Sony haven't finally given the RX100 the ability to use an external mic but merely re-introduced it after removing it post RX100 Mark II.

Also, the Mark VI got a lukewarm response by and large because of Sony swapping the lens from the Mark V to the slower one with longer reach but that drawback seems to have now been glossed over because of the new features.

 

[IronFilm]

3 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

With regard to the hype around this new camera, its a subtle point but Sony haven't finally given the RX100 the ability to use an external mic but merely re-introduced it after removing it post RX100 Mark II.

Eh? Did they remove it at that point? I thought it was just the hotshoe they removed then. 

 

3 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

 Also, the Mark VI got a lukewarm response by and large because of Sony swapping the lens from the Mark V to the slower one with longer reach but that drawback seems to have now been glossed over because of the new features.

 

Yeah I do wish this newest one wasn't f2.8 but was instead shooter range with a faster f1.8 or f2 lens like they had beforehand, a whole stop faster is nothing to sneeze at

[Skip77]

2 hours ago, Mattias Burling said:

Its interesting to me that when the Youtube hype train was in full motion for the A7iii and GH5 everybody was on board, but not this time. My only guess its because this camera is not meant for the audience of this forum. 

And I seem to recall about 10,001 posts on this forum screaming for a mic jack in these types of cameras.
But jut like always, when we get it we immediately move the goal post.

Ive started shooting Polaroid again. Its liberating

The A7III and GH5 are the two cameras that raised expectations for us. Panasonic has come forward with the S1, S1H and that's awesome but Sony has not. And we are still waiting for Sony to catch up. 

No need to blame people for giving Sony the "what have ya" for releasing a irrelevant camera when we are waiting on Sony's next big promise. 

[David Bowgett]

The main problem with this camera is the price - were it priced equivalently to Panasonic's 1" cameras it would absolutely blow the doors off them, and even if they priced it the same as the LX100 II, then the headphone jack, better AF, improved movie quality and lack of a 4K crop would still make it a very worthy competitor despite the smaller sensor. But making it the same price as a G9 and kit lens is just ridiculous.

What's more, it smacks of one of Canon's less desirable traits - a sense that they consider themselves to be above actually competing on price, and that they don't need to acknowledge their competition.

[BTM_Pix]

25 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

Eh? Did they remove it at that point? I thought it was just the hotshoe they removed then. 
 

It was the multi interface shoe that gave it the ability to use external microphones.

26 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

Yeah I do wish this newest one wasn't f2.8 but was instead shooter range with a faster f1.8 or f2 lens like they had beforehand, a whole stop faster is nothing to sneeze at

It certainly makes a difference on a 1" sensor.

Maybe the Mark VIII will have it back

 

[heart0less]

My main question is: where, the heck, is a6700? 

At the beginning of the year, Sony claimed APS-C is not dead, that they would release a new 'enthusiast' APS-C model and that they were going to focus on APS-C area (meaning: more lenses). 

 

Turns out that releasing compact cameras and FF bodies is much more profitable..