Sony - the new Canon!

[Skip77]

2 hours ago, Media Kat said:

Honest question, what more in this sized body could they offer on the video side? Higher bitrate?

Frame rates and bitrate.  Why not?

[Gandulf]

Sometimes I think you come off a bit negative, but I do get your reasoning. Sony has a ton of fan boys that will buy anything they drop. Also, where I strongly agree with you, youtube is basically and advertising platform with influencers who all talk and sound the same when they receive that camera sponsor money. 

[IronFilm]

On 7/26/2019 at 2:00 PM, Media Kat said:

What the hell more do you want them to add to it? instant upload to Instagram? This camera seems very feature packed and by features I do not mean gimmicks. So Far out of all the blogs and reviews this seems like the only negative one. Ergonomics is somewhat subjective, I like the feel of the line, but I also like the A7III.

Seamless uploading to Instagram would be a good feature! 

It is a feature set that Thom Hogan (I HIGHLY recommend his excellent website: http://www.bythom.com/ ) often bangs on about. That camera companies need to get better at frictionless sharing! Is what will help people prefer their dedicated camera vs a quick snap with their phone.  (this and the "buzz buzz" he does about Nikon needing to release a proper line up of DX lenses!!! Sigh. I wish they would. Thank goodness for Sigma instead!)

[Robert Collins]

23 hours ago, Media Kat said:

I don’t get the hate everyone has about the menus, though I think it might be complicated for those with years of familiarity with canon or Nikon. Even if you find the menus complicated and a user interface disaster, you can completely customize your own.

The angst about Sony menus from camera 'reviewers' merely reflects the profile of 'reviewers'. Rather than using one camera system like most people, they typically 'test' an array of cameras from many systems. Sony menus are detailed and deep. My A7riii has 23 pages of options for setting up custom buttons. That might seem overkill but it does at least enable me to setting the custom buttons to do exactly what I want. Reviewers dont much like this because it takes longer to set up a Sony camera than others and they have the next camera review on the horizon. Some cant be bothered to make the effort and then complain they are always having to delve into the menus because they simply havent set up the camera properly for their needs in the first place.

So it is fair to say that Sony menus arent great if you have to change cameras and systems constantly. Personally I like them because I can set up the camera exactly how I want. But then again I used to like the Olympus menus (when I used Olympus) and everyone said their menus were rubbish too.

[Mattias Burling]

Pentax have more options, more function and more buttons, but their menus is way more intuitive.

My smartphone has way more options, +100,000 apps and accesses millions of web pages. None of them are that unintuitive.

I have no problem using the Sony menus, I of course know them after years of use. But the original design, from an objective perspective, compared to other cameras and devices, is absolutely awful.

In a world where UI and user experience is a key element when designing products the Sony menu is a joke.

@Robert Collins makes a good point about how reviewers is a good measure of how bad the menus are. If people that try out all kinds of different cameras with no issues and ease, still have to point out Sony as a weird example.. then it probably is.

Sony makes lovely cameras. But like all brands there are some downsides as well. 

[Media Kat]

15 hours ago, Gandulf said:

Sometimes I think you come off a bit negative, but I do get your reasoning. Sony has a ton of fan boys that will buy anything they drop. Also, where I strongly agree with you, youtube is basically and advertising platform with influencers who all talk and sound the same when they receive that camera sponsor money. 

No doubt regarding Youtube being an advertising platform...but the point I made earlier, aren't these same influencers also paid or flown all over the world when Canon, Nikon and Panasonic release new cameras? 

[Mokara]

On 7/26/2019 at 7:03 AM, Digitgio said:

The 4K standard is 50/60p not 30. UHD 25/30p is not a standard format. 24p is enough for cinema style. 

I don’t need internet professor  to understand it ?. 4K 50p 60p is around in many cameras not only on mobile phone.On the new Xperia 1 you find 4K 60p HLG. Probably they need better processor for camera department.  ARM processor have had an incredible and fast upgrade in the last years. Maybe is the little format factor of the camera joined with old kind of processor and related termic issue to not allow it ? (Anyway iPhone and Android phones works in 60p in a smaller format). 

RX100 has an ARM core in it. That is not what the problem is, the ARM core does not do image processing, it is the image signal processor that does that. And the Bionz X IPU can't do those specs. Until they update the ISP you are going to have the same issue recording.

The Xperia does not use a Sony processor, it has a  Qualcomm processor in it. IIRC, most cell phones record using variable frame rates, which you probably would not be happy with in an actual video camera.

[Mattias Burling]

12 hours ago, Media Kat said:

No doubt regarding Youtube being an advertising platform...but the point I made earlier, aren't these same influencers also paid or flown all over the world when Canon, Nikon and Panasonic release new cameras? 

Not near the magnitude of Sony who does it on a monthly basis. New release or not, they are getting on that plain.

[Andrew Reid]

If only they flew proper shooters and journalists around the world instead of the influencers.

I'm all for a close technical relationship with manufacturers.

But the places are more often than not taken up by blaggers with high social media numbers.

Sony is by far the worst, when it comes to this.

They have disconnected from a great deal many serious users, journalists and generally people with any substance, for the sake of big PR marketing events aimed at influencers.

It's time they reprioritised.

The influencer trend will be corrected soon, when everybody realises it's just hyperbole and that they can't be persuaded to buy everything new every new day.

Hopefully, people will recognise the YouTubers and proper shooters with substance in their content like @Mattias Burling and I dare say dear old muggins here 

[Shell64]

Sony just needs to add 10 bit. They can’t compete in 2019 without it. Who in their right mind would buy an a7iii over a Nikon z6 or bmpcc4k with 12 bit raw and 10 bit?

[nigelbb]

On 7/25/2019 at 7:18 PM, chrisE said:

The only thing you can do is complain and whine. Is that what a "wanna be" needs to hopefully grow up one day? Disappointing. Following your blog for quite some time now, but it get's worse post by post. Could you please stick with productive things instead of bashing companies (especially Sony) for new gear, you don't understand?

+1

Andrew you are simply not the target market for the Sony RX100M7 so why complain so much?

I've owned an RX100M6 for a year & it's a great little stills camera with some decent video features. It's biggest single selling point is that it's the size of a packet of cigarettes with an amazing 24-200mm FF equivalent lens & it fits in your pocket. I now use it for 80% of my photos because it's just so easy to carry with me.

The RX100M7 is a nice incremental upgrade but not enough to make we want to trade in my M6.. The AF on the M6 is already amazing & TBH with the DoF of a 1" sensor the eye AF is pretty redundant as the face AF works so well already. The external mic input is what everyone bitched about as missing from the M6 but I barely use it for video beyond the equivalent of a few snapshots..

It is literally a unique camera that no other manufacturer can touch so is priced accordingly. If you don't want what it offers then clearly it's not worth you buying it but for me it's been the best value camera that I have ever owned in terms of the numbers of photos that I have taken with it.

[Media Kat]

7 hours ago, Shell64 said:

Sony just needs to add 10 bit. They can’t compete in 2019 without it. Who in their right mind would buy an a7iii over a Nikon z6 or bmpcc4k with 12 bit raw and 10 bit?

I do have E lenses and I'm hoping the A7S3 has 10 bit just because everyone says it should, though I honestly do not understand the benefits. How much of a difference does it really make? I've read it really comes into play with doing green screen and heavy color grading. Is this true? What other scenarios will it be useful?

[Skip77]

39 minutes ago, Media Kat said:

I do have E lenses and I'm hoping the A7S3 has 10 bit just because everyone says it should, though I honestly do not understand the benefits. How much of a difference does it really make? I've read it really comes into play with doing green screen and heavy color grading. Is this true? What other scenarios will it be useful?

It makes a difference because with 10bit unlocks more data in the video file. Sony has been maxed out at 100 Mbps while Nikon is at 144Mbps and 12 bit RAW will be higher. 

More data goes a long way for video. 

It's not all for heavy grading or for not having banding in the sky. More data gives you better left to high panning, better sensor read out, etc.

This is what you see in the S1 and Z6 video. 

[Media Kat]

What reasons would Sony have for limiting this? Limitations based on the size of the bodies? Trying to sell some other video camera that has all these features? Just stupid design?

[Shell64]

Storing high dynamic range compresses skin tone so 10 bit preserves the information, making skin tones easier to grade

[Shell64]

58 minutes ago, Media Kat said:

What reasons would Sony have for limiting this? Limitations based on the size of the bodies? Trying to sell some other video camera that has all these features? Just stupid design?

Either heat issues or trying not to cannibalize fs5 sales. They really are being like canon in every way, except their color science lol

[Video Hummus]

2 hours ago, Media Kat said:

What reasons would Sony have for limiting this? Limitations based on the size of the bodies? Trying to sell some other video camera that has all these features? Just stupid design?

All of the above.

[jack jin]

6 hours ago, Media Kat said:

I do have E lenses and I'm hoping the A7S3 has 10 bit just because everyone says it should, though I honestly do not understand the benefits. How much of a difference does it really make? I've read it really comes into play with doing green screen and heavy color grading. Is this true? What other scenarios will it be useful?

Just look at this little test https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22u0DUQ_pxM&t=477s

 

[Gandulf]

On 7/27/2019 at 6:46 PM, Media Kat said:

No doubt regarding Youtube being an advertising platform...but the point I made earlier, aren't these same influencers also paid or flown all over the world when Canon, Nikon and Panasonic release new cameras? 

exactly, I'm not talking about one brand, just youtube in general is just an ad platform that is hidden under a thin layer of "content"

[nathanleebush]

Great article, Andrew. You nail what I've subconsciously been feeling. Sony has lost it's (productive) hubris and intensity these last few years. It was so dynamic in the early part of the decade and now it seems to be slowing down and playing it safe. The A7x and RX100x series were revolutionary, but the last few upgrades have been pretty uninspired, with barely any body upgrades or new ideas. The RX100 series is especially boring. They convinced me to upgrade between the II and the IV, and now it's been three generations since, and I see no reasons to upgrade. The price has gone up and each iteration just adds a bunch of bizarre features that don't touch any core issues: size and stagnant video features. The video was revolutionary with the Mark IV, but there have been almost no improvements since. The camera is now beefy by modern standards and doesn't compete with smartphones for convenience. The ND is useless, since you're still shooting at F11 in S Log. They finally added the mic jack back in. 

Sold my FS7 Mark I a couple years back and they've still not come out with anything to challenge it. The Mark II had no major upgrades, certainly not in image quality. 

And they still haven't fixed their terrible color after a decade of negative feedback. It's grotesque how out of touch their engineers are! They certainly deserve the Canon slur.