Good ND choice?

[/p/]

I'v needed some ND's for a while, I'v had a BMCC for a few weeks and will be shooting with it on various projects over the next few months and afterwards too.. My first job coming up is a wedding (I did make another thread on this, I am happy to use the BMCC on a wedding shoot and have set up a good rig to help combat any drawbacks the camera has).. This thread is specifically about the ND's though for not just the wedding but in general.

 

After doing a little research I found out I needed IR/ND's for the BMCC as opposed to just regular ND's.. I want to keep my whole set up as simple as possible but I didn't want to buy a Vari-ND for both their drawbacks and price for a decent one (also since the BMCC needs an IR filter too).

 

I'v based my choice off of the ND's found in the Sony F5, seems like a good idea but though I'd get some opinions before making the purchase.

 

F5 has built in 0.9 and 1.8 ND filters, so I'm thinking about getting Tiffen 77mm Combination Neutral Density (ND) Infrared (IR) filters in 0.9 and 1.8 strengths same as the F5. 

 

Anything else I should consider? With the BMCC having a base ISO of 800 will I need something stronger than 1.8 ND? I would like to be shooting CLOSE to wide open (f/2.0 and f/2.8 on my lenses) both outdoors and inside.. Would I need something less strong than 0.9 for shooting wide open indoors? Or will 0.9 and 1.8 ND's be decent for both?

 

Thanks.

 

[Axel]

As you wrote, ND faders tend to produce side effects like unexpected, irregular vignettes (which I can confirm, I have a Heliopan in exchange for a LCW, same thing). So if you know you will always need an ND, it seems the wise thing to look for a better solution. I talked to a photographer the other day, who told me, if he was limited to 1/48 (is that 180 degree on the BMCC?), he'd really have to use strong NDs. Isn't this really, where a matte box was in order? You minimize the risk of reflections, you can have one 4x4 for all your lenses with different filter mounts, you can change them fast. Unfortunately, good 4x4 filters like Tiffen are very expensive. Sorry for not directly answering your question, I just share my thoughts. Having lived with a lot of compromises the recent years, with the decision for a BMCC there should be less. It was adequate to get a camera like the GH2 to produce more cinematic looking video by adapting funny lomographic lenses. But this is a cinema camera, time to reverse gears.

[/p/]

As you wrote, ND faders tend to produce side effects like unexpected, irregular vignettes (which I can confirm, I have a Heliopan in exchange for a LCW, same thing). So if you know you will always need an ND, it seems the wise thing to look for a better solution. I talked to a photographer the other day, who told me, if he was limited to 1/48 (is that 180 degree on the BMCC?), he'd really have to use strong NDs. Isn't this really, where a matte box was in order? You minimize the risk of reflections, you can have one 4x4 for all your lenses with different filter mounts, you can change them fast. Unfortunately, good 4x4 filters like Tiffen are very expensive. Sorry for not directly answering your question, I just share my thoughts. Having lived with a lot of compromises the recent years, with the decision for a BMCC there should be less. It was adequate to get a camera like the GH2 to produce more cinematic looking video by adapting funny lomographic lenses. But this is a cinema camera, time to reverse gears.

 

I know you can shoot cinematic video with the GH cameras.. I HAD a GH3, within 5 minutes of buying the BMCC (I sent the picture to a few friends) I had 2 job offers earning back over half the amount I paid for the camera itself. No exaggeration 5 minutes, sent picture out and got replies with job offers. One thing I learnt when working for another company as a camera operator was that people in general will make assumptions on your ability based on what gear you use. 

 

I try to improve my skills every day so I can't say my skills have improved since buying the camera but buying the camera definitely didn't make me improve just be spending money yet since making the purchase opportunities have become more available.

 

I'm sure this type of discussion is similar to that of Photographers talking about how one doesn't need expensive gear to make great picture, but seldom do you see any "professional" working solely with EOS Rebels. 

[Axel]

Yet I admire your chuzpe too shoot a wedding with a BMCC. But not raw?

[/p/]

I think I'll shoot both, mainly ProRes but I might shoot RAW during the photoshoot they have lined up with the Photographer. Clearly not the best camera for events but if I get offered the job I aren't going to turn it down (I do have over a years experience shooting weddings - Photography though) I got the BMCC for other projects planned for early next year but owning one has honestly made other opportunities available.

 

As far as the ND's go though I am not looking to have a matte box attached with a large cage setup.. I do have a ViewFactor Contineo cage that is awesome and it keeps the rig small.. I am not going to be using the Cinema Camera solely as a cinema camera, I'll use it similar to how I used my GH3.. Apart from the differences spec wise the only real difference is having to have an external battery which I love.. I don't get why everyone complains about the BMCC's internal battery it's probably it's greatest feature.

[Axel]

You could be kind and post your experience here afterwards. Imho the risky part is, when you are tempted to improvise to get a really nice shot, but deviate from your experiences with the camera. For example, when it seems faster to change exposure by rotating the ND fader, and you realize only later, that there was a terrible color shift within the take hard to balance in post. Shot in question: The pair prepares to leave the church, the doors are opened (you follow with a pan), and the light explodes (I've done this two times before with the manual aperture of the XH A1, and it was a soft transition, one time I was not told that a flock of white doves was to be set free to welcome the pair. I comped them in - actually they were seagulls from an old holiday video, nobody noticed). You have no time to think of alternatives, everything is live, irreplaceable and unrepeatable. That's why I wrote in another thread that wedding videography can easily be underestimated.

[Bioskop.Inc]

I just got the Genus Eclipse Vari ND (not to be confused with their older one) & am very pleased with it - no softness, the only colour shift it gives is a v.minor (& i do mean minor) warmth to images (which i like).

 

At the moment i'm using on a Canon & am waiting to use it on the BM Pocket - just hope it will look good on a BM.

 

Also, the whole walking from indoors to outdoors - either a pre-set aperture on your lens or a Vari-ND & you dial either down.

Takes practice, but is simple once you get the hang of it.

[andy lee]

I use Kodak Wratten ND filters in my Arri matte box

 

they are available on ebay cheap , designed for film use they are great

[Ben Prater]

Spend money for the variable NDs. Put the IR filter behind it. You don't want to be screwing on-and-off filters, especially at a live event like a wedding. Especially if you want to keep your shutter angle consistent throughout. Did you get a shoulder rig to go with the BMCC?

 

Check Dave Dugdale's review of NDs, I thought he did a great job comparing them.

[Sean Cunningham]

You might want to contact Kholi, here or over at P-V.  The BMD cameras have specific IR-cut requirements and it reacts with fairly extreme differences in neutrality and color cast depending on the manufacturer.   He just posted today about potentially replacing his Tiffen WW with Schneider Platinum.  I've seen another test that showed Formatt had a BMD friendly IR line.  

[/p/]

Thanks guys..

What about this option? I was thinking that it might be smarter instead to by an IR filter by itself which gives me the option to attach a Vari-ND on top of it (but how much IQ would I lose stacking filters?)..

This gives the benefit of being able to use a Vari-ND while still blocking out infrared with the dedicated IR filter.. ALSO since cameras seem to act differently towards infrared filters if I ever change camera and it doesn't play nice with the IR filter I could just buy another IR filter instead of having to replace a whole set of IR/ND's.

Thinking about going for the Tiffen IR filter since Tiffen filters seemed to have the best results for BMCC in the AbelCine IR video.. And also going with the Tiffen Vari-ND.

Thoughts? Thanks.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/658765-REG/Tiffen_W77IR_T1_Infrared_Filter_77mm.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/813278-REG/Tiffen_77VND_77mm_Variable_Neutral_Density.html

 

https://vimeo.com/55452414

 

[Damphousse]

 

https://vimeo.com/55452414

 

If you read the notes on the test they did that test with 7 stops of filtration.  That's a lot.  On a Canon 600D at ISO 80 that's like shooting a 1.4 lens wide open on a bright sunny day.

 

Sorry just went back and saw you are shooting a BMPCC.  Your initial thoughts about the individual ND filters seems like a good idea.  Variable ND filters do not seem to work well at the extreme end of the scale.  Even if I got a variable ND I would use a single value ND filter for the extreme stuff.

 

Check this video out.  It's by Dave Dugdale from learningdslrvideo.com.

 

http://youtu.be/nECdBiu5Rrw