Sony A7 and A7r promise improved full frame video

[Andrew Reid]

Although it's yet to be officially announced, the A7 and A7r have been heavily leaked. All along I have been saying mirrorless is the future, not the low end consumer proposition the manufacturers seem to think it is. Canon and Nikon ignored the high end mirrorless technology and now it is pay back time. Sony, already ahead of Canon on full frame sensor performance, looks set to steal a huge chunk of the enthusiast DSLR market away from the 6D and 5D Mark III with these new E-mount Alpha cameras.

[url=http://www.eoshd.com/content/11296/sony-a7-a7r-promise-improved-full-frame-video]Read the full article here[/url]

[/p/]

Been a SONY fan for ages, tese cameras look great.. Looking forward to the rumored a-mount mirrorless coming early 2014.

[Julian]

Would love this for the cheap lens adaptability. But now with magic lantern, it's hard to go back... The cameras look great though. A little bit disappointed with the EVF. True, the Olympus E-M1 evf is very nice, but rumours about super high res evf's have been around for a long time.

 

The crucial point, to make photographers switch from canikon, will be auto focus performance though. And I don't think it's likely they will preform better than a 5DIII/D800. For high-end travel/street/landscape this looks like the bomb. Fuji must be unhappy about this.

 

Oh, and pancake lenses please... The list below will probably be announced with the cameras, but no pancakes yet. Some super flat affordable primes would be awesome. Like the Canon 40mm 2.8, which is great for the money.

• Zeiss FE 24-70mm f/4.0 OSS
• Sony G 28-70mm f/3.5-5.6 OSS
• Zeiss FE 35mm f/2.8
• Zeiss FE 55mm f/1.8
• Zeiss FE 70-200mm f/4.0 OSS (coming early 2014)

[Andrew Reid]

Yeah, would be good to see some pancakes. But probably hard to get good corners with the front element so close to the sensor, not to mention the rear one. For me this is all about adapting stuff. Canon FD on full frame. Yum.

[jgharding]

Impressive!

 

A 36 megapixel mirrorless full frame?! Man that'll be great for portraits...

 

Kiss goodbye to old-fashioned mirrors...

 

The RX menu system is great, so that's a plus too...

 

No five-axis stabiliser though, it's a shame...

 

The APSC mode will great if it works in video too.

 

Fingers crossed no 24/28mbps AVCHD bollocks!

 

Yes good pancakes would be very hard with so little flange distance...

 

Yes to FD glass! :)

[TC]

Wow.  The D800E sensor in a body which can take pretty much any lens ever made via an adaptor?

 

*I'm in*.  

[maxotics]

I loved my Nex7 except for this

 

1 Proprietary flash shoe meant adapter made the camera unwieldy (looks like they've finally smelled the coffee on that one)

2. No focus distance on lens, or display (or maybe I couldn't get to it).

3. Focus was really slow and often painful (which made distance markings desirable, so you could pull focus abstractly).

 

I can do 720p RAW video on the EOS-M.  I can't believe Sony couldn't do some sort of ProRes thing in the camera.  You never know with Sony, either they're throwing everything but the kitchen sink in (like the killer VX1000 years back), or they're playing proprietary add-on games.  It seems a waste that they would work so hard on translucent mirror tech (I know doesn't apply to this camera) only to skimp on the video tech.

 

This camera with anything close to BMPCC video, wow!

[Trankilstef]

I really think buying this one. Actually I will test it in Paris at the Salon de la Photo (a big photo based event that takes place every year in Paris) and if I'm hooked I really think I will buy it !
That and a good selections of manual primes like the FD lenses will be fine as the focus Sony peaking is good enough (better than my Fuji X100s).

Can't wait to try it out !

[wolf33d]

Andrew ! You forgot to add that a new A7 body like will be released soon, early 2014 with IBIS !!!!! Finally our video killer

[Nikkor]

Look at the prices!!! Wow, they just killed Nikon... I'm going to sell my d800 and get the A7R.

[ntblowz]

The alpha always have IBIS, just not sure if they will use 5 Axis for their upcoming one or still sticking with existing tech. With FF being much more bigger than M43 the IS will have to be more hefty too, though I guess lots of people will buy it rather than spend another few thousands on getting those 3 axis gimbal which cost more than the camera.

 

 

Though I have to wait until to see if they can get the overheating out of the way with the A7, which is always a problem on the small NEXish body. With the GH3 I can keep recording all day on 1 battery and footage not getting more grainy unlike some other machines (cough Oly)

[Giovanni Bertani]

This is my perfect photo camera. As ugly as a quality focused technical design should be.

 

...and totally agree that could be just killer to have a ProRes or Raw option.

 

I have to see how the glass part works with adapters etc... for my Eos lenses. If this works well my X-E1 + two lens will take a nice trip on Ebay before the end of the year.

[rkunstmann]

The One with the D800 Sensor ist very interesting in my opinion. If I´m not completely mistaken you could get a digital medium format camera out of it for a very reasonable price and if the video quality will be increased( compared to the not great VG 900) basically a digital 65mm film camera. For Example: Leica R to E Mount Speedbooster on the Body- Pentacon Six/ Kiev 60/ Exacta 66 to Leica R Adapter on the Lens would give you a 56mm f2 lens with the FOV of medium format! The old Zeiss Jena Medium Format Glass is pretty nice too. There might be the issue that the whole image circle doesn´t geht through the adapter (Six to Leica) in the first place...

[rkunstmann]

56mm f2 from a Pentacon 80 f2.8 I should say.

[richg101]

if they give us decent downsampling, and xavc10bit 4;2;2 then it's game over for everything else.  evf, full frame, compact, adaptable to any lens, etc...

 

This is the camera that I anticipated, and the reason I have slowly been building a collection of hasselblad lenses - for the time when a focal reducer arrives and gives me medium format look, 36mpx and costs a lot less than a digital back.

[Bruno]

Impressive!

 

A 36 megapixel mirrorless full frame?! Man that'll be great for portraits...

 

Kiss goodbye to old-fashioned mirrors...

 

The RX menu system is great, so that's a plus too...

 

No five-axis stabiliser though, it's a shame...

 

The APSC mode will great if it works in video too.

 

Fingers crossed no 24/28mbps AVCHD bollocks!

 

Yes good pancakes would be very hard with so little flange distance...

 

Yes to FD glass! :)

 

Sony unreleased camera specs, always so promising! :)

[theSUBVERSIVE]

The One with the D800 Sensor ist very interesting in my opinion. If I´m not completely mistaken you could get a digital medium format camera out of it for a very reasonable price and if the video quality will be increased( compared to the not great VG 900) basically a digital 65mm film camera. For Example: Leica R to E Mount Speedbooster on the Body- Pentacon Six/ Kiev 60/ Exacta 66 to Leica R Adapter on the Lens would give you a 56mm f2 lens with the FOV of medium format! The old Zeiss Jena Medium Format Glass is pretty nice too. There might be the issue that the whole image circle doesn´t geht through the adapter (Six to Leica) in the first place...

 

Rumors says these are new sensors, not the same on the A99/RX1 neither the one on the D800.

[theSUBVERSIVE]

Is there confirmation that these cameras will not have the NEX menus? I didn't read that elsewhere, that would be great because NEX menus are confusing toys, there are no tabs and any configuration change makes you go to through a lot of work and the worst thing is the lack of customization. What good is the Fn/Mode dial button if I can't change its function?

 

I think that for video, manual focus will be fine for a lot of use but for photography - and I understand why the Leica comparison and not the DSLR - you'd like a AF, NEX cameras doesn't really have a fast AF and here we get into the lenses. Sony has been making a name for themselves in not delivering the goods when it comes to lenses.

 

The almost 3.5 years old NEX cameras still doesn't have a portrait lens and neither non-pancake decent wide angles. You get lenses from $300~450 and then, suddenly you jump to $1000 and even the Sony/Zeiss doesn't deliver the same optical quality as the best lenses from Micro4/3 and Fuji. And adding a new family of lenses plus the 3 others (APS-C/FF A-mount and APS-C E-mount) it makes me worry. Will Sony at least bring a decent roadmap? Or will it happen all over again? Sony is said to launch official Canikon lens adapters, would it mean that they will rely on that for lenses?

 

I didn't know about the video improvements and hope for that, but for now, it's just hope. I remember how Sony pumped up about the A99 video capabilites how it would a true FF hybrid and in the end they didn't deliver that. So I think we have to wait to see the real thing and not rely so much on just words.

 

Anyway, although I have my converns and as such I will wait before even thinking about buying these cameras, they are, for sure a great step for mirrorless cameras. I also have been saying that mirrorless is the future and I wonder what's gonna happen when it becomes known to the general public that fact. Canikon made a living of just their names and how people think that having a Canikon DSLR means being a "PRO" and that's why they have the luxury of not worrying about entering the mirrorless market or they have been so lazy about it - and I also think that one day they may pay for it. We'll see.

[Damphousse]

Canikon made a living of just their names and how people think that having a Canikon DSLR means being a "PRO" and that's why they have the luxury of not worrying about entering the mirrorless market or they have been so lazy about it - and I also think that one day they may pay for it. We'll see.

 

I liked your post.  The only issue is every complaint you had about Sony was something Canon and Nikon did right so I was baffled when I read this statement.  I came over from the photography side.  In photography we have a saying.  You buy a system not a camera.  We tend to look and see which lens and accessory line we like and then buy a body in that line... and stick with it.  Unfortunately for me and a lot of people no one other than Canon was offering a sub $1,000 DSLR when we got hooked.  No one was offering a commercially viable full frame camera.  No one was offering a "prosumer" full frame camera.  There was no choice.  Canon was innovating and coming out with one first after another.  People didn't buy the first digital Rebel to be a "pro."  They bought it because there wasn't anything else!

 

Your statements about the autofocus in these Sony cameras and the lens situation will make it unacceptable for a lot of photographers.  The major market for DSLRs is photographers.  So I doubt Canon is going to notice a substantial dip in Canon 5D MK III sales when this thing hits.  If I had to shoot a wedding or corporate event there is no way I would use this camera.  You can rent all kinds of Canon lenses all over the place.  This thing might be nice and light a fire under some people's behinds but based on these preliminary rumors it is unacceptable for a lot of what the 5D MK III or the Nikon whatever do.

 

I'm excited about the video but a photo replacement it is not for me.  Glad they went full frame though.  Even someone with mild mental retardation can design a 50mm fast prime for close to $100.  With full frame they should be able to come up a few decent lenses without too much heroics... I think.  The engineering gymnastics people are going through to create 11mm lenses for tiny sensors is ridiculous.  Never made sense to me... from a photo point of view.

 

Anyway it is a very intriguing development.

[theSUBVERSIVE]

@Damphousse

 

I don't think that Sony will do the things right but just the fact that they went FF, that's the kind of thing that starts to get attention from a more general public, FF always brings together the "PRO" sense. And with this I'm not saying that this is what I believe to mean "PRO" or anything, it's just that the majority of the people are too concerned with the size of the sensor more than practicality, usability or even system.

 

I completely agree with what you say about how system is more important or even how Canikon made a lot of things possible. I also understand that no mirrorless system can offer the same things - although Micro4/3 is a pretty mature system by now and Fuji keeps growing, and fast. Canikon really did that, Canon really opened up the video thing, not by change this website is called EOSHD. But it's also a fact that Canikon stopped in time over their hegemony. More and more they bring less and less innovation, they are just too confortable, even more Canon.

 

Nikon1 system is not a successful one but it brought a lot of interesting things, some video options that no other ILC system has and they even have very good glass but being smaller than Micro4/3, not having the same mature system yet and neither offering better IQ or smaller bodies, it becomes hard to be the first choice for many. That's also why I think that Nikon1 trying to explore a new niche with the underwater camera is oretty interesting take on that.

 

Canon, on the other hand, did one of the laziest jobs with the EOS-M and they had the courage to be surprised it didn't sell well. They launched a slow camera, just one kit lens and a pancake, same old sensor, same video, it was basically a Rebel in a smaller body but with less customization, buttons, dials, lenses, AF performance and so on. Plus the latest version of their rebel is basically for the sake of having a new one, the T3i, T4i and T5i are basically the same camera. Canon launched the EOS-C but did almost no improvement in video in the 5DMKIII like so many were expecting - Magic Lantern kind of saving their asses here. It made no sense to not bring improvement to not hurt their more-than-$10,000 cinema system.

 

And then it comes Black Magic with affortable video cameras with RAW and ProRes, something that was thought to be impossible - it's unfortunate that they still have some availability problems and that they take so long to correct some "minor" but very important things, how can you take so long just to put better battery display?? And you can see that this is a new territory for Black Magic, they have the right ideas but they are still failing on execution a bit, but as long as they last, they will mature those things. I like that they are bold nonetheless.

 

Canikon could have been a force in mirrorless cameras, Canon could have been a force in affortable video, but they were too confortable and worse, afraid that they would canibalize themselves that they chose to play safe and bring no innovation at all. They could have taken the opportunity to bring their dominance and expertise to mirrorless, releasing their system and lenses and competing with Panasonic/Olympus and Sony but they didn't care and now Fuji is really showing how it should be done. With not much effort Canon is still known as the best video in ILC cameras for the general public, when it's not really that good  anymore - or not without Magic Lantern help - or not compared to what it could have been. They are not wrong if they are still selling a lot of cameras, but it's certainly frustrating to see this lack of innovation and cojones.

 

Black Magic went full force with sub-$3000 RAW! Fuji started a mirrorless system with a PRO-oriented camera and not low-end camera like everybody else! Those are exciting things! Canon is king of the antithesis of that in a lot of sense.

 

In the short term yes, a lot of photographers will stick with DSLRs, they have a better system, they know what they are getting, it's reliable. But I see more and more Canikon users going Fuji way because it delivers, it has great lenses and Fuji is committed to the SYSTEM. They feel that they can rely on Fuji that they will be getting what they need - something that I can't say about Sony as they change direction too quickly and too often. Fuji's Kaizen is amazing it really makes you feel part of it. And all of that in a smaller and lighter body and lenses. There are tons of testimonials about how Fuji made them go back to photography as something more enjoyable, that there were times that they thought of going out to take pictures but ended up not bringing the DSLR because of the chunk and that with the X-System, they are back to that root.

 

So, I think that in the long term, as those mirrorless system will continue to grow, at some point it will really start to bother Canikon but by there, if nothing is done, others will have a complete system whereas Canikon will have to start from zero and rely com adapters - which kind of kills the point of having a more compact and smaller camera. I know that for a lot of users, mainly those that don't travel a lot or don't have to carry their cameras everywhere, they will keep using their DSLR but as mirrorless camera are maturing, if they can offer the same in a smaller package, why not try it? There is still a long way to go and mirrorless still has a lot of prejudice to surpass but if Canikon keeps like that, when they realize, it might be too late and share of the market will be gone and I hope they don't go clueless trying to understand what went wrong.

 

Anyway, all of these is very interesting to follow.