Blackmagic to announce new camera related news at 12 noon PDT (8pm London)

[Mokara]

7 hours ago, Skip77 said:

The burst rate and AF on the S1H will be worse them the S1, so for a still camera the S1 is lacking a lot and last in it's class. No one is buying the S1H for photography.

Yes it is brilliant.  BM just toasted the m4/3 sensor and nailed the first nail. I love what they did with the P6K.  Glad I didn't buy the P4K.

BM just beat the A7SIII before it even came out. WOW! 

That is not the point. The S1 is a hybrid with a video emphasis. Of course it will be beaten by other hybrid cameras that have a stills focus if you are shooting stills, but it is never the less a hybrid that is very capable as a stills camera, unlike the BM products.

If you need a hybrid camera in your workflow you will not buy the BM camera unless you were hit hard on the head as a child.

[Anaconda_]

The 6k is definitely the uglier sibling.

[cameraeye]

Great news. Can anyone comment, for a non-user of the pocket 4K, how BRAW stacks up against ML raw in the grade? Apologies if google would give me the answer.

[Anaconda_]

My experience with ML raw is limited, but Braw is much easier to work with and you can put it straight into the NLE and go. It also has half baked luts, so you have a near perfect SOC file with all the luxuries that come with raw. 

Ive also found its less noisy and often more forgiving that ML raw, but like I said my experience with ML is limited and it’s entirely possible I’m doing it wrong. 

[nickname]

I'm really glad that I don't need a speedboster to get to s35 with this. 

I shot the bmpcc4k with the viltrox nikon g speedbooster which worked well, but I felt that it adds CA in harsh light while at the same time making my nikkors almost too sharp when stopping down a bit. Which didn't play well with the moiree of the 4k sensor. Moiree would pop up in fabrics or wide shots in grass or leaves. Very annoying. 

Plus I just feel better if there's nothing else between my lens and the sensor. 

Anyway, this is the camera I have been waiting for. Affordable S35 raw with good DR and decent lowlight! 

Have expected z-cam to deliver it first, but for me this is the better package. Usable without rig or external monitor. 

 

[Trek of Joy]

Looks amazing, great to see them leverage the body into multiple cameras, but the EF mount ... ugh. If there was ever a camera that should be a part of the L-mount, this is one of them. The s35 sensor on the P6k is appealing, files should be cleaner than the P4k and DR improved. Hopefully BMD can deliver (literally).

Like Z-cam, any bets on a FF Pocket 8k coming soon?

Chris

[DBounce]

1 hour ago, Anaconda_ said:

The 6k is definitely the uglier sibling.

I really think it’s time to drop the “pocket” designation.

[kye]

2 minutes ago, DBounce said:

I really think it’s time to drop the “pocket” designation.

It all depends on your perspective....  for example, if you understand that this rig is pretty minimal for a cinema camera:

and that they get much bigger:

People have no clue what the word 'cinema' really entails....  

 

[Anaconda_]

7 minutes ago, kye said:

People have no clue what the word 'cinema' really entails....  

Isn't it pensive piano music and slow motion shots of your girlfriend walking through a park with a teal and orange LUT?

[DBounce]

28 minutes ago, kye said:

It all depends on your perspective....  for example, if you understand that this rig is pretty minimal for a cinema camera:

and that they get much bigger:

People have no clue what the word 'cinema' really entails....  

 

Well the Sigma is full frame not S35 like the ? Pocket 6k, and yet it’s not called a “pocket”. 

It doesn’t depend on ones perspective of a cinema camera... it depends on ones reasonable expectation of what can fit inside a pocket. The original camera with a pancake lens could fit inside a pocket, this thing has not a chance in hell. Frankly, it sounds comical at this point. While I haven’t actually measured, from the images it looks like the P6K is larger than all of the hybrid cinema cameras, including the admittedly large Panasonic S1H.

 

 

The P4k was not the first thing to include the word “pocket “ in its name. Most people are familiar with a pocket knife. There are expectations for how large such a item should be. You wouldn’t expect a Bowie knife to be described as “pocket”... and that’s not because most people don’t understand that swords exist.

 

[Emanuel]

The Sigma has no 4K/50p or 60p, last time I checked, isn't it? ; -)

[drm]

1 hour ago, Mokara said:

That is not the point. The S1 is a hybrid with a video emphasis. Of course it will be beaten by other hybrid cameras that have a stills focus if you are shooting stills, but it is never the less a hybrid that is very capable as a stills camera, unlike the BM products.

If you need a hybrid camera in your workflow you will not buy the BM camera unless you were hit hard on the head as a child.

Until someone comes out with the perfect hybrid cam w/raw, It works best for me to have both a dedicated cine camera and a hybrid. I have the GH5, GH5s, & P4K (with the 6K on its way). For run/gun situations, I grab the Panasonics. For other projects, I grab the P4Ks. I really enjoy recording in raw and the flexibility that brings, so I grab the P4Ks when I can. Since I am doing several projects per week, BRaw has turned out to be helpful (Small file sizes + flexible editing). I am beginning to feel the urge to replace my GH5, so I am considering replacing the GH5 with the S1. I seem to be headed toward an S1 + P4Ks (or P6Ks depending upon how they perform). To me, that seems like a great setup, at least for the next 2-3 years. Being able to share EF lenses across bodies would be a nice option. I deliver everything in 4K, so having the ability to downsample (or crop) from 6K would be useful to me.

I am very intrigued that the P6K shoots ~20MP still images. I am sure that it will be clunky at taking photos, but I shoot something like 95% video 5% photo. I wonder if it will be useable as a photo camera. 

Does anyone know if the P6K still outputs only 1080p over the HDMI port, like the P4K?

[dslnc]

12 hours ago, Davide Roveri said:

he reason why 1080p is not windowed on the P6K is because it only records that mode in ProRes (along with both 4K flavours as well) therefore it captures the full sensor and then downscales it whereas the P4K can do both, BRAW windowed or ProRes downscaled.

On the microsite they clarify a bit better - up to 60p full sensor readout. 

However with P4K recording 1080p braw is windowed no matter framerate. 0nly oversampling with prores. Curious if 4K dci with the P6K does the same. 

Edit - Ouch, never mind . Already answered!

 

 

[BTM_Pix]

2 minutes ago, drm said:

I am very intrigued that the P6K shoots ~20MP still images. I am sure that it will be clunky at taking photos, but I shoot something like 95% video 5% photo. I wonder if it will be useable as a photo camera. 

The quality of the image will no doubt be pretty good but its the getting to that point seamlessly that is the challenge based on my experience with the P4K.

For a start, the shutter button is too small and too recessed to depress without inducing some shake of the camera body.

The next issue is the shutter.

Although you can switch it from shutter angle to shutter speed, it is still linked to angle so only goes from a minimum of 1/24th to a maximum of 1/768th and the values in between are also tied to shutter angle so they step in increments that not many photographers will be that familiar with !

In terms of exposure, if you don't go fully manual (and with the false colour its no big deal to do that of course) then you can simulate shutter priority mode if you use the Auto key on the back of the camera and simulate aperture priority mode and full auto mode by turning the Auto on in the shutter menu.

Although setting the modes isn't exactly intuitive, it is doable but the big drawback is the lack of exposure compensation control so you are stuck with what the camera decides.

In summary, for me, the shutter button is probably an indicator of how much BM really thought people would be using it as a stills camera and the maximum shutter speed and lack of exposure compensation certainly confirms it. As a 'cinema hybrid' for want of a better expression rather than a photo hybrid, its likely that you will have ND to hand anyway so its not as much of a big deal regarding maximum shutter speed and you could argue that shooting DNGs does mitigate the lack of an exposure compensation function to some extent as you have additional latitude.

The use of a remote shutter release that has a dedicated mode dial and a sneaky way of creating exposure compensation for people who did want to use it more for photography would probably be of benefit. 

And when I say 'probably be of benefit' I actually mean 'does anyone want one?'.

 

[drm]

@BTM_Pix LOL...ok. I will stick to a hybrid photo cam that can do video, instead of relying on my cine cam that might/maybe/sort of be able to take photos   I actually don't think that I have even tried to take a photo with the P4Ks. I have taken some photos with the GH5s. It does an acceptable job, as long as you are targeting social media, but it is much more a photo cam hybrid at heart than the P4K.

With the way tech is moving, I am sure that my dream hybrid camera isn't too far off.

[Mattias Burling]

Regarding the "pocket", Im still convinced the BMPCC4K was intended to be the BMCCii. They share much more similarities.

[MurtlandPhoto]

4 minutes ago, Mattias Burling said:

Regarding the "pocket", Im still convinced the BMPCC4K was intended to be the BMCCii. They share much more similarities.

Agreed. I think they just chose the "Pocket" name for marketing purposes. The BMPCC sold the most units by far and really helped adopt people over to Resolve, which is their whole plan anyways.

[Mattias Burling]

12 minutes ago, MurtlandPhoto said:

Agreed. I think they just chose the "Pocket" name for marketing purposes. The BMPCC sold the most units by far and really helped adopt people over to Resolve, which is their whole plan anyways.

Yup.

Even the included Resolve is a BMCC thing from the beginning.
And just like the BMCC and BMPC4K had the same body but MFT and EF mount we now get the BMPCC4K and BMPCC6K with the same differentiators. 

Other than that there is of course the similar the design, touch, dual rec buttons and so on.

[leslie]

28 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

The quality of the image will no doubt be pretty good but its the getting to that point seamlessly that is the challenge based on my experience with the P4K.

For a start, the shutter button is too small and too recessed to depress without inducing some shake of the camera body.

The next issue is the shutter.

Although you can switch it from shutter angle to shutter speed, it is still linked to angle so only goes from a minimum of 1/24th to a maximum of 1/768th and the values in between are also tied to shutter angle so they step in increments that not many photographers will be that familiar with !

In terms of exposure, if you don't go fully manual (and with the false colour its no big deal to do that of course) then you can simulate shutter priority mode if you use the Auto key on the back of the camera and simulate aperture priority mode and full auto mode by turning the Auto on in the shutter menu.

Although setting the modes isn't exactly intuitive, it is doable but the big drawback is the lack of exposure compensation control so you are stuck with what the camera decides.

In summary, for me, the shutter button is probably an indicator of how much BM really thought people would be using it as a stills camera and the maximum shutter speed and lack of exposure compensation certainly confirms it. As a 'cinema hybrid' for want of a better expression rather than a photo hybrid, its likely that you will have ND to hand anyway so its not as much of a big deal regarding maximum shutter speed and you could argue that shooting DNGs does mitigate the lack of an exposure compensation function to some extent as you have additional latitude.

The use of a remote shutter release that has a dedicated mode dial and a sneaky way of creating exposure compensation for people who did want to use it more for photography would probably be of benefit. 

And when I say 'probably be of benefit' I actually mean 'does anyone want one?'.

 

have to agree with you on this, the photo button does require too much depressing which has to introduce camera movement. I like taking the occasional photo or dng. how do you propose to implement it btm_pix ? mind you go light on the duct tape ok

[BTM_Pix]

46 minutes ago, drm said:

@BTM_Pix LOL...ok. I will stick to a hybrid photo cam that can do video, instead of relying on my cine cam that might/maybe/sort of be able to take photos   I actually don't think that I have even tried to take a photo with the P4Ks.

The thing is that if you are set up to take stills with it (and don't need a fast shutter speed) then you are also set up to take video with it and might as well just press the video record button and do frame extracts with the added advantage of 24fps capture with an unlimited buffer.

Well, of course, you were able to do that when it was shooting CinemaDNG but its arguably a different story now with compressed BRAW so the DNG of stills mode will now be a differentiator to some people so I suppose a bit more thought has to go in from that perspective of it needing a more specific mode.

Or not

 

25 minutes ago, leslie said:

have to agree with you on this, the photo button does require too much depressing which has to introduce camera movement. I like taking the occasional photo or dng. how do you propose to implement it btm_pix ? mind you go light on the duct tape ok

A bluetooth shutter release/video start probably.

Short press for stills, long press for video sound OK ?