Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 6K

[Video Hummus]

4 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

 

When you open the Pocket 4K box, you only need to add a lens and a memory card to shoot with it.

If you want to add extra power, support, external monitoring, microphones etc to it then the package cost will go up if you don't already own that stuff.

But exactly the same could be said of any interchangeable lens camera though. 

And it won't be any different with the Pocket 6K so I'm not sure what you are getting at here with regard to what I said mate, which was about used prices of the Pocket 4K getting lower ?

Yep, and you will shoot 20 mins before the battery dies. My point was that the pocket almost requires extra kit to be practically useable. So the true cost of the camera is higher. Used prices going down will help with that. 

[Otago]

As someone starting out in the world of video I thought it was really interesting to see the example videos, especially the one in the gym - it doesn't look much better than what I am shooting and totally reaffirms that lighting and composition are really important! 

I am surprised that they didn't go with a more universal mount, like the RF possibly ? They may not want to reverse engineer a mount considering they already have the work done for previous cameras, or want sued and have to take a camera off the market - the patent for the EF mount must be lapsed by now and it's not like you can do a firmware mount change. 

Are 4K deliverables just going to be the norm now ? I think deliveries to streaming services need to be in 4k but I can't tell the difference between upressed 1080p and 4k when it's been through our intranet compression system though. 

The UltraStudio4K mini seems like an interesting device though, the microphone port on the front looks to be a real push towards the YouTuber market - or is there some use in professional editing that I don't see ?

[nathlas]

14 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

I wounder if Canon EF-S lenses will fit without modification? There is some pretty nice cheap lenses in that line.

 

Sigma dual zoom set (18-35 & 50-100) seem to be the identical lenses that someone would buy for this camera.

 

[Emanuel]

2 hours ago, Jonesy Jones said:

I hadn’t seen that. Those are really nice. The wedding one was stunning.

Gorgeous image. Looks like color science right ooc is super nice. I’d still like @Sage to put his touch on it but it is beautiful nonetheless.

Neither me, nice find : ) Mixed with the 4K version for the first clip. I guess the message is clear, they see it as two versions from same model. Wonder if the results will just match such parh, probably they will and hence the reason why don't much care to put the footage fanfare to highlight this surprising launch anyway : )

7 minutes ago, nathlas said:

 

Sigma dual zoom set (18-35 & 50-100) seem to be the identical lenses that someone would buy for this camera.

 

The challenge is to keep it at the light side... ; ) Or there will be two more distinct models other than the 176 grams to separate them ; -)

[BTM_Pix]

2 minutes ago, Video Hummus said:

Yep, and you will shoot 20 mins before the battery dies. My point was that the pocket almost requires extra kit to be practically useable. So the true cost of the camera is higher. Used prices going down will help with that. 

Ah, I think we were possibly talking at cross purposes then.

To be fair, the power situation isn't nearly the headache it was when we first got them either when BM inexplicably did not have the cable kits ready so we were all having to lash together different clunky solutions. 

Overall, I actually think the Pocket 4K probably wins the minimum spend on additional accessories to shoot though as the additional power costs are more than offset by how much it costs to get a phantom powered XLR microphone into the other cameras and BRAW has shifted things even further with regard to comparable media costs. 

 

[Jonesy Jones]

8 minutes ago, Mattias Burling said:

confessed aspring rapist, a criminal and a diagnosed compulsive liar

Please provide evidence for any of this. Or not. I don’t care because at this point all you’ll share is fake news vitriol. What leftists have decided they can do is pick a position, scream it as loud as they can until they and everyone around them believe it’s true. If they want to punch you. Well they say it’s ok to punch Nazis. Then label you a Nazi. Then punch you. 

Regarding “confessed aspiring rapist” I assume you’re referring to his pu$$y comment. Which anyone with half a brain knows was said and meant as an exaggeration. Like “I’m going to kick his ass.” But I’ve never seen anyone actually kick someone in the ass. Fake news.

Regarding “criminal”. No obstruction. No collusion. Fake news.

Regarding “diagnosed compulsive liar” I haven’t heard this one. I mean I’m sure he lies or has lied. I would never attempt to defend this. But Hillary anyone? Fake news.

[nathlas]

12 hours ago, The ghost of squig said:

 

Chances are the Sigma FP will be around the same price, albeit with larger file sizes. I'm leaning towards the Sigma, I'm not loving the P4K form factor and necessity for an external battery. I still can't even buy a decent loupe for the damned thing!

No chanse Sigma FP will cost more than 2κ $.

Propably will be around 1500-1800$. 

Image quality will define which proposition is better.

 

ps

We live in a wonderfull tech age for our interests guys.It's a bless that small companies like BM and Sigma offer this kind of products at these prices. Thank God that we don't expect that from Sony, Panasonic, Canon, Arri and Red.

BlackMagic is the new RED.

[Kisaha]

"You can even shoot windowed 2.8K resolution video at up to 120 frames per second with the Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 6K to create dramatic, high resolution slow motion video."

What that does mean exactly? Similar like the HD windowes mode in P4K?

It does 20mgpxls raw photos. That is ok for some people, another minor plus I guess..

It seriously re-assuring having a proper EF mount there. Decisions decisions..

[Jrsisson]

13 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

4K is the new 1080p. I just don't see why you guys don't see this coming?? Jesus it is 2019, nearly 2020. 8K is going to be the new 4K. Move up or be left behind. This stuff is big boy toys.  Always has been. It will Never end. Sure it is cheaper than ever now, but to keep up, it is still not easy. Tech never stops, there is money to be had. Money is King.

Like I have said, you young guys just don't get it lol. I have been through all this crap. Better IS better if you are making money at this stuff. Do you really think a Client would be content with you using the Pk4 over this new 6K machine?? I doubt it. If you can't afford an extra 1000 bucks why have you? That is reality. When they are paying out the ass they will look at your gear, trust me.

Sure if you are doing this for fun buy a LX100 or a GH2. Even a EOS-M, etc..

I think you’ve got a over focus on technology, particularly resolution.

 

I turn up on plenty of jobs with small cameras (including the ‘hobbyist’ LX100 and no one cares.

 

The results matter but probably more importantly how I get the results. Quietly, unobtrusive and with the minimum of fuss.

 

I get hired over so many obnoxious idiots with their massive cameras and attitudes to match..

 

But please, keep making your grand statements..

[Emanuel]

Jonesy, the world is not B&W... For some reason we are in a cameras forum ; )

On the other comment from a different user, I think Blackmagic is a way more than or what RED intended or promised to really be : -)

28 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

"You can even shoot windowed 2.8K resolution video at up to 120 frames per second with the Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 6K to create dramatic, high resolution slow motion video."

What that does mean exactly? Similar like the HD windowes mode in P4K?

It does 20mgpxls raw photos. That is ok for some people, another minor plus I guess..

It seriously re-assuring having a proper EF mount there. Decisions decisions..

Why minor? The mount can be one indeed... As much as price.

I found your point on that difference pretty solid.

In any case, I'll tell you something people are used to say when see people to pop up with a second love when shit happens... : X If you felt the need to find another one it is because you're going towards where your doubts lead : -)

[Mattias Burling]

56 minutes ago, Otago said:

I am surprised that they didn't go with a more universal mount, like the RF possibly ?

The original BMCC with an EF mount was announced at the same time as the patent for the EF mount expired.
We will have to wait a few years before the same happens with the RF or Sony E mount.
m4/3 has been open from the start.

[nathlas]

14 hours ago, Papiskokuji said:

I wonder which sensor they use for this camera. Never heard of a 24MP dual iso apsc sensor. Maybe androidlad can enlighten us ? Have we encountered this sensor before ?

 

That would be my question too.

Is a Sony sensor or another source  ? 

[nathlas]

1 hour ago, Otago said:

 

I am surprised that they didn't go with a more universal mount, like the RF possibly ? They may not want to reverse engineer a mount considering they already have the work done for previous cameras, or want sued and have to take a camera off the market - the patent for the EF mount must be lapsed by now and it's not like you can do a firmware mount change. 

 

1) Lens compatibility with current Mini ursa Ef mount owners (for same reason they keeped the versy same succesfull body in order that BMPCC4K users will not get mad on spend for accessories)

2) EF users are still almost the majority of canon users. RF users are but a small portion right now and with these prices I doubt will increase soon.

So if you were in BM's command which mount you would choose ? 

[Otago]

1 minute ago, nathlas said:

1) Lens compatibility with current Mini ursa Ef mount owners (for same reason they keeped the versy same succesfull body in order that BMPCC4K users will not get mad on spend for accessories)

2) EF users are still almost the majority of canon users. RF users are but a small portion right now and with these prices I doubt will increase soon.

So if you were in BM's command which mount you would choose ? 

1) Makes total sense, a very easy upgrade path for 4k users especially if they have been using adapted EF lenses and a great additional camera for an Ursa owner. 

2) I was thinking the RF mount not for the native lenses, though they seem to be good, but for all the adapters that are available from Canon and others. With so many EF lenses out there perhaps it's just a niche market that adds an extra cost for most users.

I would've chosen the RF mount if there wasn't that pesky patent  Perhaps Red will be licensing it for the Komodo or perhaps they are just flying a few more sheets to the wind!

[Video Hummus]

40 minutes ago, nathlas said:

That would be my question too.

Is a Sony sensor or another source  ? 

@androidlad said it was so most likely is. 

[Shell64]

@androidlad how do you get all of this information for camera sensors?

Honestly I don’t care about 6k. All I want is organic looking 4K downrezzed to a 1080p output. Really that’s all i need. 

[Anaconda_]

Firmware 6.5 is already out, but ONLY for the 6k camera. Is there really no option for 4k and 1080 Braw?

[KnightsFan]

6 hours ago, Skip77 said:

I get what you're saying about 4K being mainstream but it really is mainstream right now. Not on your TV at home but on computers.  This is were we see every detail that 4K has to offer. When we see Netflix on the computer at 1080p we see the detail that you don't get after direct tv or cable compressed the signal. 

A 27in iMac or 27 or higher 4K computer monitor is how 4K and 6K come into play and we are already ready for 4K over the internet.  2k to 4k to 6k mostly is about viewing the same content on bigger screens. The outlets for 4K have changed and will only get better and the 50in flat panel at home is not the best way to view compressed 4K.

I understand why higher resolutions are better, and where to see them, but here's my experience:

I know 0 people who own a 4k computer screen. I own a 4k TV but never use it in 4k because I have 0 4k movies, my blu ray player only supports 1080p, my internet won't handle a 4k stream, and for gaming it maxes out at 4k30 which is too low a frame rate. 100% of the Apple desktop computers that I have seen, were at universities or studios--Mac as an operating system has <4% market share, and a lot of those are laptops. The actual number of 4K+ iMacs out there in use is miniscule. Very few of my friends actually own desktop computers, for that matter, they just use laptops and phones with HD screens. They would benefit from the bitrate increase of streaming 4K on their devices, but for vast swathes of rural America, the internet bandwidth simply doesn't support 4k.

I get that a lot of pros need 4k or 6k to stay ahead of the competition. When making content, you make it high enough resolution that the top tier viewers are satisfied, even if only 10% see it in 4k. But the reality for me is, 4k is not a display format yet. My work has only ever been shown in local theaters, festivals, and bars, and none of those venues had 4K display capabilities.

[1Ale82]

46 minutes ago, Otago said:

I would've chosen the RF mount if there wasn't that pesky patent  Perhaps Red will be licensing it for the Komodo or perhaps they are just flying a few more sheets to the wind!

I think they have probably chosen the EF mount because the patent is cheaper to use than the brand new RF one and the user base is a lot higher, with millions and millions of EF lenses already in the world. So it comes with a better cost/benefit ratio.

Also, I did not do the math, but the difference in size from m43 to super35 sensor looks like the same one from 4k to 6k. Probably the fotosite dimension is the same, so it could be that both camera use the same sensor technology with the 6k sensor only cut bigger from the silicon sheet. So, this also translate into faster research and production times.

[pantxu]

despite other differences, please correct me if I am wrong after looking for sensor sizes of both cameras:

• bmpcc 4k + speedbooster 0.64x = crop factor 1.21x (with +1 fstop extra)
• bmpcc 6k = crop factor 1.55x (can't use a focal reducer)

I know there is other considerations in favor of 6k like resolution, native mount without adapters, etc, but seems that DR and SNR are similar, without no benefits of larger sensor, at least on initial paper.