Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 6K

[Snowfun]

3 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

I don't know how long RED intend to let this routine of putting out teasers go on for but if it continues much longer we'll have to start calling it the Komodo Drag On.

I’m stealing that joke...

[BTM_Pix]

55 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Maybe it's a patents exchange. RED probably allowed Canon to carry on providing RAW.

I felt this was the most likely explanation too.

Unless RED are just re-housing a job lot of unsold EOS-RPs and adding RAW  

Be interesting to see how they react to the Z Cam releasing Z Raw today

 

[Kisaha]

32 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

I felt this was the most likely explanation too.

Unless RED are just re-housing a job lot of unsold EOS-RPs and adding RAW  

Be interesting to see how they react to the Z Cam releasing Z Raw today

 

How do WE react to the Z cam releasing Z Raw today?! How many cameras do we have to buy this year?

Don't forget that they soon will release an 8K full frame camera nearly the price of a C200!

As of the difference between the P6K and P4K on that tweet, first of all the Viltroxed image is a lot wider, the difference in depth of field is not that much, and the Viltrox is definitely not a Metabones.

[BTM_Pix]

7 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

How do WE react to the Z cam releasing Z Raw today?! How many cameras do we have to buy this year?

By doing nothing until after the S1H, the Sigma FP and the ProResRAW update for the Nikon Z6 are released?

Or in the case of the last one, waiting for Elvis to re-appear saying "Fooled ya !" whichever comes first.

[Kisaha]

5 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

By doing nothing until after the S1H, the Sigma FP and the ProResRAW update for the Nikon Z6 are released?

Or in the case of the last one, waiting for Elvis to re-appear saying "Fooled ya !" whichever comes first.

I am sure by that time, Panasonic will have an advanced L EVA, a GH6, Sony a couple new - best in class (based by the specs) cameras, probably BM have a couple more, Fuji the X-H2, DJI the Hassy copycat and maybe JVC and Sharp will have an announcement! 

It's madness!

We seriously have to start a thread for where the industry is going right now.

Everyone is complaining about the industry is doomed, and the market deteriorates, while in the same time there are unlimited new releases that bring more features, original and creative designs, better image quality for prices that a few years back you were only buying soft 1080 with silly compression files.

Are these the middle ages or is it rennaisance? Maybe we have to live both in the same timeline it seems.

[drm]

13 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

I am sure by that time, Panasonic will have an advanced L EVA, a GH6, Sony a couple new - best in class (based by the specs) cameras, probably BM have a couple more, Fuji the X-H2, DJI the Hassy copycat and maybe JVC and Sharp will have an announcement! 

It's madness!

We seriously have to start a thread for where the industry is going right now.

Everyone is complaining about the industry is doomed, and the market deteriorates, while in the same time there are unlimited new releases that bring more features, original and creative designs, better image quality for prices that a few years back you were only buying soft 1080 with silly compression files.

Are these the middle ages or is it rennaisance? Maybe we have to live both in the same timeline it seems.

To be honest, I did not see the P6K coming. I received mine yesterday and haven't even had time to open the box yet. I am curious about using it along side the P4Ks with and without boosters.

But after seeing the P6K, you *know* there is a P8K coming just as soon as BM can get a sensor (full frame?) that has the appropriate specs and makes the ~3500 price point. They already have the EF mount and there should be enough room in the body for the larger sensor. I bet the P8K is out inside 15 months at $3495. What do you guys think? 

Also, I got a huge kick out of the fact that Blackmagic had it in stock the DAY it was released at the major dealers. I got mine from B&H. That will teach us to talk smack about Blackmagic's legendary lack of timeliness (or not.... )

[newfoundmass]

I haven't read the entire thread but what's with 50 fps being the max in 6K? That's kinda weird, no? 

[abehalpert]

I agree with Andrew's latest post, unless the new camera has substantially better DR and low-light performance. But it seems that it does not.

[Kisaha]

21 minutes ago, drm said:

To be honest, I did not see the P6K coming. I received mine yesterday and haven't even had time to open the box yet. I am curious about using it along side the P4Ks with and without boosters.

But after seeing the P6K, you *know* there is a P8K coming just as soon as BM can get a sensor (full frame?) that has the appropriate specs and makes the ~3500 price point. They already have the EF mount and there should be enough room in the body for the larger sensor. I bet the P8K is out inside 15 months at $3495. What do you guys think? 

Also, I got a huge kick out of the fact that Blackmagic had it in stock the DAY it was released at the major dealers. I got mine from B&H. That will teach us to talk smack about Blackmagic's legendary lack of timeliness (or not.... )

Please do some tests and tell us what you see!

100% this time next year we have at least 2 new BM cameras (production, Ursa and/or compact). The sensors exist, look at Z cameras. Same body 3 different resolutions 3-4 different sensors, reasonable to cheap prices.

As I said before, I am thinking going 4K with this purchase and wait for the 8K options next year. Consider skipping 6K altogether..

BM seem to learn with every mistake. They have done a lot before, but they seem to transform to a very powerful and world wide player in the market. Imagine the impact they have in both software and hardware side of things. Truly amazing stuff.

[thebrothersthre3]

18 minutes ago, abehalpert said:

I agree with Andrew's latest post, unless the new camera has substantially better DR and low-light performance. But it seems that it does not.

I also agree. Its not offering a lot of advantages above the Pocket 4k. The image and motion cadence could be nicer though. Better battery life and titling screen could have sold it more. Or better dynamic range and a mount that could easily take speedboosters.

Overall though its still an exciting release IMHO, the 2.8k 120fps is pretty sweet.

The Pocket 4k v2 is what I'd be more excited about.

[Video Hummus]

I agree with Andrews post. Not the camera for everybody. When you step back and look at the whole package there are some real head scratchers. No doubt the image is solid and having BRAW is a huge advantage.

[Kisaha]

21 minutes ago, Video Hummus said:

I agree with Andrews post. Not the camera for everybody. When you step back and look at the whole package there are some real head scratchers. No doubt the image is solid and having BRAW is a huge advantage.

Braw for 6K. No prores 6K and no 4K braw. Or at least that's my impression. 

@thebrothersthre3

Also, 2.8K 120fps is windowed (X3.388?)?

I would love a P4K Pro, but this release shows that they are comfortable with this form factor, and why not? Have sold dozens of thousands for sure. Maybe the P4K Pro is the Z 4K..

[crevice]

Here are my early impressions of the pocket 6k

 

- My camera came with scuffs and scratches all over the body. It looked like it has been used for months. Went on FB and saw several people complaining and posting pictures of very bad scratches and even dents all over the body. Check out the official Facebook group to see more info on this. 

 

- Vmount or some other solution is needed. I fall into the prefer pocket full of batteries category, as I like to keep it compact. But I am not even sure I made it 15 minutes before it died with an official canon batter (newest version). It was really bad. I need to do more tests on this. I was shooting 6k braw for what it’s worth  

 

- Motion cadence and overall look still doesn’t really do it for me. It looks fantastic, but it doesn’t have the magic older blackmagic sensors had. Maybe it’s the resolution bump and it’s just the way it is with these modern sensors. So far, nothing in the consumer/prosumer price range beats my blackmagic micro cinema camera as far as motion cadence and nailing the filmic look with ease. I feel cameras now days nail the specs on paper, but they lack feel/organic quality/smooth motion cadence, etc. Often people get up and arms when the word “cinematic” is brought up. Yes you can make cinematic footage with the pocket 6 or prob any camera for that matter. Yes lighting impacts it and proper grade does as well. And yes it’s a term that is overused and misused. But I think their is definitely an organic feel missing from these often sterile modern sensors. Sure you can throw a pro-mist filter on it, some vintage glass, and massage it to look great. The sensor kind of reminds me of my old Red Raven. Which isn’t really a bad thing (or great). Just has a slightly similar look and feel to it. 

- Having a dedicated ef Mount is wonderful. Much better not dealing with an adapter.

TL;DR Overall, it’s a great camera and just like the pocket 4k - it’s great when rigged up. Battery life seems much worse than the 4k when using canon batteries - but I need to do more testing. Overall look and feel is sharp and impressive, but lacks an organic quality which can be attributed by slightly video-esque motion cadence, modern sensor, and higher resolution. 

[socs]

Not to get too off topic but you mentioned the blackmagic micro cinema camera.   Everytime I use it I think I should just throw all my other cameras (z6, xt3, etc) in the trash.  For me too it has the best look to it by far.  But, you really have to work to use that camera with all of it's quirks.  Folks say you can soften modern cameras in post, but I've never seen good examples of that to match something like the bmmcc.

I wish BM or another co. would just package that same sensor into a newer body with all the ergonomics and battery life of a modern cam.

[Skip77]

16 minutes ago, crevice said:

Here are my early impressions of the pocket 6k

 

- My camera came with scuffs and scratches all over the body. It looked like it has been used for months. Went on FB and saw several people complaining and posting pictures of very bad scratches and even dents all over the body. Check out the official Facebook group to see more info on this. 

 

- Vmount or some other solution is needed. I fall into the prefer pocket full of batteries category, as I like to keep it compact. But I am not even sure I made it 15 minutes before it died with an official canon batter (newest version). It was really bad. I need to do more tests on this. I was shooting 6k braw for what it’s worth  

 

- Motion cadence and overall look still doesn’t really do it for me. It looks fantastic, but it doesn’t have the magic older blackmagic sensors had. Maybe it’s the resolution bump and it’s just the way it is with these modern sensors. So far, nothing in the consumer/prosumer price range beats my blackmagic micro cinema camera as far as motion cadence and nailing the filmic look with ease. I feel cameras now days nail the specs on paper, but they lack feel/organic quality/smooth motion cadence, etc. Often people get up and arms when the word “cinematic” is brought up. Yes you can make cinematic footage with the pocket 6 or prob any camera for that matter. Yes lighting impacts it and proper grade does as well. And yes it’s a term that is overused and misused. But I think their is definitely an organic feel missing from these often sterile modern sensors. Sure you can throw a pro-mist filter on it, some vintage glass, and massage it to look great. The sensor kind of reminds me of my old Red Raven. Which isn’t really a bad thing (or great). Just has a slightly similar look and feel to it. 

- Having a dedicated ef Mount is wonderful. Much better not dealing with an adapter.

TL;DR Overall, it’s a great camera and just like the pocket 4k - it’s great when rigged up. Battery life seems much worse than the 4k when using canon batteries - but I need to do more testing. Overall look and feel is sharp and impressive, but lacks an organic quality which can be attributed by slightly video-esque motion cadence, modern sensor, and higher resolution. 

Have you tried 4K DCI or HD ?  

Do you think the cadence being off is the playback on your PC?  I'm almost certain you need a 120hz monitor to see the playback the way it's intended.  I have a 27' with and without 120hz and it makes a difference. 

 

4 minutes ago, socs said:

Not to get too off topic but you mentioned the blackmagic micro cinema camera.   Everytime I use it I think I should just throw all my other cameras (z6, xt3, etc) in the trash.  For me too it has the best look to it by far.  But, you really have to work to use that camera with all of it's quirks.  Folks say you can soften modern cameras in post, but I've never seen good examples of that to match something like the bmmcc.

I wish BM or another co. would just package that same sensor into a newer body with all the ergonomics and battery life of a modern cam.

What's the DR on the micro and what size sensor does it have?

[crevice]

19 minutes ago, socs said:

Not to get too off topic but you mentioned the blackmagic micro cinema camera.   Everytime I use it I think I should just throw all my other cameras (z6, xt3, etc) in the trash.  For me too it has the best look to it by far.  But, you really have to work to use that camera with all of it's quirks.  Folks say you can soften modern cameras in post, but I've never seen good examples of that to match something like the bmmcc.

I wish BM or another co. would just package that same sensor into a newer body with all the ergonomics and battery life of a modern cam.

I’ve returned or sold many cameras in the past few years and have kept my micro the entire time. I agree with the quirks, but for me they are solvable. For example only shoot raw and manual focus lenses, so I have no need to ever even go into the menus - besides maybe to format a card once in awhile. So the menu buttons don’t bother me. I also have the NPF adapter, so battery life is great. So the micro is more compact, battery life is better, it has in my opinion the better raw codec, and a better filmic quality to it and also records to regular SD cards. Yet, nobody talks about it because of the way blackmagic promoted it as almost a drone only/go pro-ish brain. When in reality it’s an amazing filmic camera perfect for rigging. It’s truly one of the most insanely under-appreciated hidden gems in the consumer/prosumer film/video industry. Also, with resolve superscale - you can upscale it to 4k with amazing results. 

@Skip77

120hz only makes it look worse to me. It’s not the motion cadence being bad. Most starting out in the past few years won’t tell a difference. For us old timers, the motion cadence we are speaking of gives a bit more cinematic feel to it. For example the micros motion cadence seems slower, with more natural blur, which I find more pleasing. 

[JordanWright]

2 hours ago, drm said:

But after seeing the P6K, you *know* there is a P8K coming just as soon as BM can get a sensor (full frame?) that has the appropriate specs and makes the ~3500 price point. They already have the EF mount and there should be enough room in the body for the larger sensor. I bet the P8K is out inside 15 months at $3495. What do you guys think? 

Yeah I thought the same thing... it might be a year or two however.

[Skip77]

51 minutes ago, crevice said:

I’ve returned or sold many cameras in the past few years and have kept my micro the entire time. I agree with the quirks, but for me they are solvable. For example only shoot raw and manual focus lenses, so I have no need to ever even go into the menus - besides maybe to format a card once in awhile. So the menu buttons don’t bother me. I also have the NPF adapter, so battery life is great. So the micro is more compact, battery life is better, it has in my opinion the better raw codec, and a better filmic quality to it and also records to regular SD cards. Yet, nobody talks about it because of the way blackmagic promoted it as almost a drone only/go pro-ish brain. When in reality it’s an amazing filmic camera perfect for rigging. It’s truly one of the most insanely under-appreciated hidden gems in the consumer/prosumer film/video industry. Also, with resolve superscale - you can upscale it to 4k with amazing results. 

@Skip77

120hz only makes it look worse to me. It’s not the motion cadence being bad. Most starting out in the past few years won’t tell a difference. For us old timers, the motion cadence we are speaking of gives a bit more cinematic feel to it. For example the micros motion cadence seems slower, with more natural blur, which I find more pleasing. 

I'm a bg fan of good motion cadence and this is what cine cameras have that the lower end cameras do not do very well.  the 12ohz is your monitor being able to keep up and do some of the work. It makes a difference in how footage plays back on your computer. 

What system do you have to play back true 6K?

[thebrothersthre3]

57 minutes ago, crevice said:

 

@Skip77

120hz only makes it look worse to me. It’s not the motion cadence being bad. Most starting out in the past few years won’t tell a difference. For us old timers, the motion cadence we are speaking of gives a bit more cinematic feel to it. For example the micros motion cadence seems slower, with more natural blur, which I find more pleasing. 

More motion blur? What if you put the shutter speed a bit lower on the pocket to compensate? 

[crevice]

57 minutes ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

More motion blur? What if you put the shutter speed a bit lower on the pocket to compensate? 

Possible. But again, I think my point is simply the eye test. I prefer the image straight out the camera with a quick grade more on the micro cinema than the pocket or any other camera in the price range. Im sure you can add Pro mist, more motion blur, vintage glass, film grain, etc. to get it close.