Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 6K

[webrunner5]

That is IF they decide to keep selling it. Maybe they aren't really making any money on the PK4, can't be much if they do, and think the EF version is a cash cow.

I think BMD plans on moving more upscale. Look at the money they have paid just to make Resolve better, bought Fairlight, Fusion. Spent all that money to develop bRaw. Been giving free updates to Resolve Studio. I have no clue where they are getting all this money?

[Anaconda_]

6 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

I wounder if Canon EF-S lenses will fit without modification? There is some pretty nice cheap lenses in that line.

They fit the Ursa line, so I don't see a reason they wouldn't fit this. They only don't fit speedboosters because there's extra glass between the mount and the sensor.

[BTM_Pix]

2 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

4) this camera in no way will sell more than the P4K.

I'm curious about this to be honest.

Its still quite rare to see one out in the wild isn't it?

There were obviously a gazillion pre-orders when it was announced but I wonder what percentage of those turned into actual delivered sales after all the delays?

How many people cancelled because they got fed up and moved on to another camera (after all people couldn't just put their projects on indefinite hold) or their circumstances changed or they didn't like CDNG being removed?

If those people now come back I'm guessing it might will be to the 6K and that the 6K will have a longer life so might well outsell the 4K in the end.

[Kisaha]

22 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

That is IF they decide to keep selling it.

I am not sure if you were talking to me, but the price difference is substantial, even worst in Europe. 6K is great and all, but doubling the price doesn't help.

It crosses that psychological line that people say "screw it, it is so cheap that O am getting this anyway". 

A price of almost 2800-3000€ will cause a lot of potential buyers to pause and check the cheaper 4K or more expensive and more complete options.

P4K plays ball alone in the lower tier of things.

@BTM_Pix it is a huge hit here in Greece, and a huge portion of GH5 users got one anyway. 

All the kids got one, speedboosted with a 18-35mm and destroying the market charging 40€ for a days work!

"How many people cancelled because they got fed up and moved on to another camera (after all people couldn't just put their projects on indefinite hold) or their circumstances changed or they didn't like CDNG being removed?" - not many, what else to buy in this price range?!

6K is good and all, but it won't be a standard, 8K is the standard, and after you buy the 6K then there will be an 8K for similar money, because how mimuch to charge for a Pocket camera?!

4 out of the 6 main Film and TV production shops here selling them with some initiative usually (right now one of those is giving a Peli-like case of 100€ for free).

If I have seen it on tourists hands filming Acropolis? No! 

[webrunner5]

If you want Raw you don't have a whole lot of choices. We will all fall over dead before Nikon does it, and you have to buy a expensive recorder to even do it IF it happens. I think BMD is wising up finally. They can't keep giving stuff away.

The PK4 in reality actually cost 995 Dollars. They can't be making 100, 200 dollars off of it. Why bother. They are not ever going to sell a ton of them, not like a Canon camera will. So the R&D cost kill you on small runs.

[BTM_Pix]

1 minute ago, Kisaha said:

A price of almost 2800-3000€ will cause a lot of potential buyers to pause and check the cheaper 4K or more expensive and more complete options.

Particularly as the 4K is quite likely to become a lot cheaper on the used market.

 

[Papiskokuji]

I wonder which sensor they use for this camera. Never heard of a 24MP dual iso apsc sensor. Maybe androidlad can enlighten us ? Have we encountered this sensor before ?

I’m also not interested in 6K, but the EF mount and the apsc sensor size... I think an OLPF and internal NDs could have make me do the move. I’m tired of adapters and speedboosters. There’s no good m43 zoom with fast aperture and real manual focus ring (and IS)...

Actually I just want an ursa micro...

[Kisaha]

18 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

If you want Raw you don't have a whole lot of choices. We will all fall over dead before Nikon does it, and you have to buy a expensive recorder to even do it IF it happens. I think BMD is wising up finally. They can't keep giving stuff away.

The PK4 in reality actually cost 995 Dollars. They can;t be making 100, 200 dollars off of it. Why bother.

are you with us, or against us?!!

We complain that the whole industry is overcharging us since the beginning of time, finally BM is bringing a cheap (B)raw solution to the masses, and you want them to stop?!

To make video cameras these days is very cheap. It is just electronics. This BM camera has no special R&D costs (e.g AF algorithms and technology), not expensive waterproofing, no mechanical shutter or anything mechanic for that matter, just clever and modern engineering cutting costs from everywhere, even the buttons..if I remember correctly, the body is 3D printed, even..

[webrunner5]

Probably against you. Do you have a clue how long it takes to print 3D stuff, like forever. Time is money. That is if what you say is true. BMD is a super small speck on the wall compared to the big boys. They Have to make money, and fast. Everything they sell is outdated in a year. They are running like they stole it like they say. Innovate, bring new stuff out, improve what you just improved, or die. They have a hell of a goal to keep up.

And they are not making crap off the PK4 I can tell you that. No free lunch for years for BMD. If you want to play you have to pay like the old saying is. They have jumped into a hornets nest with this announcement, but they must think they have an edge. But it is going to cost you to play. 4K is old news now in the industry. They are moving on and leaving you behind.

Where else you going to buy a s35, 6K Raw camera for 2400 Bucks that uses the most popular mount the world.. I can't help it you get hammered in the EU.

[Geoff CB]

The MFT mount with a speedbooster seems like a far more cost effective option given the large price difference.

[webrunner5]

Yeah if you buy a cheap knockoff version of a Speedbooster. If you buy the New Metabones one that is right for the PK4 well it is not too far off.

[newfoundmass]

This is great for those that genuinely need 6K but I see very little reason to get it over the 4K if you don't need that extra resolution. 

I do think though that it undermines the Pocket 4K, which seems foolish to me. My guess is that it was being developed at the same time as the 4K and uses pretty much the same tech. Wonder if the S1H being announced made them decide to go to market sooner than they'd planned? 

[webrunner5]

4K is the new 1080p. I just don't see why you guys don't see this coming?? Jesus it is 2019, nearly 2020. 8K is going to be the new 4K. Move up or be left behind. This stuff is big boy toys.  Always has been. It will Never end. Sure it is cheaper than ever now, but to keep up, it is still not easy. Tech never stops, there is money to be had. Money is King.

Like I have said, you young guys just don't get it lol. I have been through all this crap. Better IS better if you are making money at this stuff. Do you really think a Client would be content with you using the Pk4 over this new 6K machine?? I doubt it. If you can't afford an extra 1000 bucks why have you? That is reality. When they are paying out the ass they will look at your gear, trust me.

Sure if you are doing this for fun buy a LX100 or a GH2. Even a EOS-M, etc..

[The ghost of squig]

Is the blue blue sky macroblocking included or is it a paid upgrade?

Chances are the Sigma FP will be around the same price, albeit with larger file sizes. I'm leaning towards the Sigma, I'm not loving the P4K form factor and necessity for an external battery. I still can't even buy a decent loupe for the damned thing!

[MeanRevert]

Any listing of data rates required for new resolutions so we can figure out if our current media will work? 

[TurboRat]

I think Blackmagic Design is now going to move developer and engineer resources now to the new 6k, which means slower updates for the 4k. They will still support the 4k but the 6k will be the focus. So now I'm eyeing the OG Pocket just because I think that's BMD's most polished product. It still has a nice look and software has come a long way to just upres / upconvert footages.

[Mako Sports]

57 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

4K is the new 1080p. I just don't see why you guys don't see this coming?? Jesus it is 2019, nearly 2020. 8K is going to be the new 4K. Move up or be left behind. This stuff is big boy toys.  Always has been. It will Never end. Sure it is cheaper than ever now, but to keep up, it is still not easy. Tech never stops, there is money to be had. Money is King.

1 important thing to think about is when it comes time to sell a camera, who's gonna want to buy a 4k only camera in 2023 when you can have a similar 6k body for the same or less. 

I'm so stoked for 4K/6K/8K HDR to become the norm and for rec 709 1080/4k to die off

[DBounce]

Can't say that this unwieldy beast of a $2500, plastic "pocket" camera does anything for me. The Sigma FP is mighty interesting though.

[The ghost of squig]

7 minutes ago, DBounce said:

Can't say that this unwieldy beast of a $2500, plastic "pocket" camera does anything for me. The Sigma FP is mighty interesting though.

A 4K micro with or without a 3.2" LCD and a NPF battery mount would've been a much more attractive proposition. Who needs 6K? I just made the leap from 1080p to 4K and the first thing I did was slap a Black ProMist filter on it to take the edge off.

[Emanuel]

2 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

(...)

Where else you going to buy a s35, 6K Raw camera for 2400 Bucks that uses the most popular mount the world.. I can't help it you get hammered in the EU.

Our Greek friend tends to exaggerate over there : ) Sorry, mate ; ) But you'll be able to buy in EU around the EUR 2,000-2,200 mark or for instance in my particular case other than that, I'd order from US then. I never had to do it so far, though.

GBP is so cheap these days (open the eyelash, Brit people! : ) *Trump is just envying the other side of his blanket* hence this European higher price mantra only fits if you want to buy it from your corner supply.

Trump, Putin and Co are trying to put Europeans to rest betting their odds on the usual suspects. Our common market is much more flexible than crappy puppets in any case, count on it : P

@Kisaha order it without VAT outside your expensive suppliers and be happy with, you can say it is double price, but do not freak out misleading yourself and others with that EUR3000 figure excuse, merely Blackmagic pricing policy and still completely strange to the European market circumstances anyways, even because I suppose (well, let's say it with all capital letters: KNOW) it will only risk to end pretty inaccurate, wait and see, do your homework research first, please ; -)