Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 6K

[thephoenix]

good news for pl users

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cliftonstommel/pocket-6k-pl-mount/posts/2627491

[jonprimo]

Just shot a music video yesterday with the camera using my FD lenses. Really love the softness on it. Did a quick grade so this is not final. 
 

 

[Snowbro]

Saw andrew and dave talking about it shutting off or stopping its recording randomly. They aren't the first; I don't have the camera, but I have done some research. 

I heard that if you use actual Canon batteries, it doesn't randomly shut off.

I also heard that if you are recording in 6k etc. and go over 50% of your SSD, it will start dropping frames and stop recording. One YT'er recommended buying a 1TB drive and only recording 500GB or less on it as a workaround. 

Maybe someone can confirm this. I haven't looked to see if any firmware has come out that remedies these drawbacks. That would sure be embarrassing to be on a paid job, have it randomly shut off or stop recording, then have to interrupt the scene/interview and inform everyone that your little thingy went limp. 

[kye]

@jonprimo nice lighting - not many go really bold, so good work!

[drm]

4 hours ago, Snowbro said:

Saw andrew and dave talking about it shutting off or stopping its recording randomly. They aren't the first; I don't have the camera, but I have done some research. 

I heard that if you use actual Canon batteries, it doesn't randomly shut off.

I also heard that if you are recording in 6k etc. and go over 50% of your SSD, it will start dropping frames and stop recording. One YT'er recommended buying a 1TB drive and only recording 500GB or less on it as a workaround. 

Maybe someone can confirm this. I haven't looked to see if any firmware has come out that remedies these drawbacks. That would sure be embarrassing to be on a paid job, have it randomly shut off or stop recording, then have to interrupt the scene/interview and inform everyone that your little thingy went limp. 

I have used my P6K (along with my P4Ks) for many hours on three or four shoots per week since I purchased it on release day. I have not had the camera randomly turn off or stop recording, not even a single time. 

I have a Sony NP970 battery plate on the cage and I use the 1TB T5 drives. I am not using original Canon batteries. I will sometimes also use V-mount batteries. I also generally don't fill up the entire drive, so I may be unintentionally keeping the drives below 50%.

In my usage, the P6K has been just as reliable as my 3 P4Ks. 

[kye]

13 hours ago, Snowbro said:

I also heard that if you are recording in 6k etc. and go over 50% of your SSD, it will start dropping frames and stop recording. One YT'er recommended buying a 1TB drive and only recording 500GB or less on it as a workaround. 

If this happens it's more likely to be the SSD than the P6K..  the data volumes we're talking about with this (and the P4K when it was released) are incredible and past the limits of all but the best of current technology.

It's also likely to be content-specific as (I would imagine) that Braw and Prores will compress the video stream more if there is less movement.  It would be interesting to see a torture test between a SSD and a CFast card, as one of the reasons CFast cards are so expensive is their blistering performance spec.

[Snowbro]

34 minutes ago, kye said:

If this happens it's more likely to be the SSD than the P6K..  the data volumes we're talking about with this (and the P4K when it was released) are incredible and past the limits of all but the best of current technology.

It's also likely to be content-specific as (I would imagine) that Braw and Prores will compress the video stream more if there is less movement.  It would be interesting to see a torture test between a SSD and a CFast card, as one of the reasons CFast cards are so expensive is their blistering performance spec.

I wonder if the m.2 drives utilizing USB C (housing) have the same problems?

[Snowbro]

I just ordered a pocket 6k and a sigma 18-35 1.8 for it. I couldn't help it. 

[jonprimo]

16 hours ago, kye said:

@jonprimo nice lighting - not many go really bold, so good work!

Appreciate it once I get it edited and colored by my colorist I’ll be sure to post it

20 hours ago, Snowbro said:

Saw andrew and dave talking about it shutting off or stopping its recording randomly. They aren't the first; I don't have the camera, but I have done some research. 

I heard that if you use actual Canon batteries, it doesn't randomly shut off.

I also heard that if you are recording in 6k etc. and go over 50% of your SSD, it will start dropping frames and stop recording. One YT'er recommended buying a 1TB drive and only recording 500GB or less on it as a workaround. 

Maybe someone can confirm this. I haven't looked to see if any firmware has come out that remedies these drawbacks. That would sure be embarrassing to be on a paid job, have it randomly shut off or stop recording, then have to interrupt the scene/interview and inform everyone that your little thingy went limp. 

I’ve done 2 extensive shoots and my p6k has not shut down and I’m using the Samsung 500gb ssd and I’ve filled them up with sparring 1 min on 6k braw.

 

 

Here’s a one shot scene I shot on pro res 1080 setting with 28mm canon FD with all natural lighting

 

https://youtu.be/0EY4TZ1YwNY

[Kisaha]

1 hour ago, jonprimo said:

Here’s a one shot scene I shot on pro res 1080 setting with 28mm canon FD with all natural light.

Great shots, but I noticed that you cut the heads a lot. In your video, a couple of steps back or a 24mm view would be nice to see, for both the front and the back character - it was taking out some of the tense for me.

This is also exaggerated by the fact your back actor's voice is too prominent in the mix, his quality of voice brings him in front anyway, so needs a special mixing and post to bring him at his natural position on the scene. You are expecting to girl to be louder with no room at all, as it is, but the male character is further back in the room and has to be positioned there in post.

Maybe this is your style though, so just don't worry about it, I can not truly judge from a few screenshots and a clip!

I just mentioned it because it is something I was doing too, but working with very good and experienced DoPs (I do mainly sound in TV) through the years, I realized that I was overdoing it.

I do have a set of FD lenses from my AE-1 that I haven't used for ages. I tried and find an 24mm that I was missing, but I like to shoot wide (in S35, that is) and finding a good and reasonably priced wide FD lens is a nightmare. I do like my Samyang 16mm.

[jonprimo]

1 hour ago, Kisaha said:

Great shots, but I noticed that you cut the heads a lot. In your video, a couple of steps back or a 24mm view would be nice to see, for both the front and the back character - it was taking out some of the tense for me.

This is also exaggerated by the fact your back actor's voice is too prominent in the mix, his quality of voice brings him in front anyway, so needs a special mixing and post to bring him at his natural position on the scene. You are expecting to girl to be louder with no room at all, as it is, but the male character is further back in the room and has to be positioned there in post.

Maybe this is your style though, so just don't worry about it, I can not truly judge from a few screenshots and a clip!

I just mentioned it because it is something I was doing too, but working with very good and experienced DoPs (I do mainly sound in TV) through the years, I realized that I was overdoing it.

I do have a set of FD lenses from my AE-1 that I haven't used for ages. I tried and find an 24mm that I was missing, but I like to shoot wide (in S35, that is) and finding a good and reasonably priced wide FD lens is a nightmare. I do like my Samyang 16mm.

Thx for the feedback! I agree with you that his voice is too prominent. I literally shot this scene in 10 min and edited/colored in another 10 min and gave it to the actress who wanted a quick turnaround lol.
 

For the framing I actually cropped it to 1080 x 817 to give it a widescreen look. The original shot I don’t really cut off her head. I just did it for aesthetics.

 

There’s a super wide angle lens I’m contemplating of getting for my pocket. The Lowa 12mm Check it out

https://youtu.be/krD0GSqkfSQ

 

 

 

[Kisaha]

6 minutes ago, jonprimo said:

Thx for the feedback! I agree with you that his voice is too prominent. I literally shot this scene in 10 min and edited/colored in another 10 min and gave it to the actress who wanted a quick turnaround lol.
 

For the framing I actually cropped it to 1080 x 817 to give it a widescreen look. The original shot I don’t really cut off her head. I just did it for aesthetics.

 

There’s a super wide angle lens I’m contemplating of getting for my pocket. The Lowa 12mm Check it out

https://youtu.be/krD0GSqkfSQ

Thanx for taking my positive criticism mildly! today in the internets is very easy to misunderstand intentions!

I love this lens! I wanted it to be my next buy, as I do some architecture photography now and then, unfortunately, as I am a sound man first, I tend to spend more on sound these days (I just literally ordered the Rode NT-SF1 Ambisonic mic, which costs the same as the Lowa lens! https://www.thomann.de/gb/rode_nt_sf1.htm

Cheers 

[zerocool22]

On 9/24/2019 at 12:35 AM, jonprimo said:

Just shot a music video yesterday with the camera using my FD lenses. Really love the softness on it. Did a quick grade so this is not final. 
 

 

I like the softness, but I find the colors a bit too mute. Contrast is sitting well, but I feel the colors should pop more, more saturated on the RED/BLUE shots.

[majoraxis]

BH Photo has 2 used in stock as of a minute ago - 15% and 18% off.

[matthere]

 

13 hours ago, Kisaha said:

I tried and find a 24mm

Talking of the Canon FD's I have just pulled the trigger on the Canon 20-35mm F3.5 which seems to match the other FD's well.

I have a set of Canon FD's which look great on the P4K. 

[Anaconda_]

Do you guys use FD glass with a glassless adapter, or a speedbooster? 

[matthere]

@Anaconda_ it's nice to use both actually, the extra speed from the booster can be really useful, and more reach with the glassless also has it's uses

[jonprimo]

10 hours ago, zerocool22 said:

I like the softness, but I find the colors a bit too mute. Contrast is sitting well, but I feel the colors should pop more, more saturated on the RED/BLUE shots.

I completely agree I just grabbed some stills and put them through Lightroom really quick to see what I can do. My colorist will definitely push the colors more when I finalize the music video.

[kye]

Sarah Dietschy just put together her doco setup with a P6K and a P4K, using the MFT lenses from her GH5 for the P4K and borrowing some EF lenses for the P6K but will likely re-buy the EF glass she sold when she went Sony.  She also went Resolve-only for a month and will likely be using Resolve for editing the doco footage she'll potentially be shooting in Braw.  

This is kind of a big deal as although she started off with two BMPCCs, she transitioned to Sony and was a big fangirl for them for years.   She was also an Adobe Creator for a year, so that's a departure from there too, at least for doc work.

 

[Snowbro]

Not sure how to feel about this camera yet. I have spent at least 10 hours with it so far (including post production testing). Few observations:

Annoyances

• Dynamic range is pretty bad with highlights
• BRAW looks dead in Premiere vs Resolve (colorspace looks wrong). I would have to edit in Resolve, which has been very buggy IMO
• Somehow my focus peaking is back focused(Sigma 18-35), not sure how or if you can adjust it
• Highlight rolloff and highlight recovery doesn't seem to work in Resolve with BRAW, but does a little in Premiere?
• BRAW surprisingly still fell apart more than I expected when adjusting luminosities, hue curves etc. 
• Batteries obviously die in about 24 min

Positives

• If the lighting is about perfect, the image looks great
• BM colorescience doesn't require much work for my personal taste. I can get a good looking shot just by adjusting curves if WB was set right.
• RAW is nice to adjust certain settings with later
• Camera doesn't draw as much attention as even my 1DX II did
• The 50 & 60p 6K stabilizes really well, I don't see a need for a tripod if you shoot expecting a really small crop in post. 
• Plenty of resolution to do fake, post production camera moves, stabilize, zoom etc. 
• Image looks very clean, virtually noiseless 

I shot in 5:1, Film (DR), 6K 50p and 2:4:1 60p

The camera is obviously capable of getting some very nice footage. I am still unsure if it will be for me though. I will try under exposing a little more and see how it handles it, but the highlight recovery was better on the XT3, 1DX II and EOS R somehow. I seriously could only recover what feels like half a stop of highlights, where I have recovered a ton on the other cameras mentioned, and those aren't marketed as a cinema camera. That is one main reason that makes me rethink carrying this camera and dealing with things like; more weight, no good AF, bad battery life etc. If I can get similar dynamic range, with a much smaller camera that doesn't have the drawbacks I just mentioned, plus be able to take pro grade photos as well. I liked the XT3, but it was much noisier and I don't care for the lenses there. Also don't like being tied down to Resolve, I don't know why Premiere (with BM plugin) is looking much more lifeless, as if the colorspace is wrong (checked multiple times). 

If anyone knows the solution to some of the things I mentioned, I would be happy to hear. I am not trying to bash the camera, just learning more about it and hoping the negatives can be worked around. Overall I do like it, just not sure if it is worth the price and few downsides I mentioned. I do much more run n gun style. 

Here is just a quick screen grab to show the color I mentioned, I didn't do much (dropped ISO from 400 to 320, applied BM 6K Extended LUT etc). I don't expect many cameras to have enough DR to handle this type of shot, but I think the leafs look cool to the right. The rolloff seems nice. I have a bunch of other shots where I am shooting at golden hour with the sun way off frame (shooting almost north and sun is west), still blowing out highlights like you see on her hair here in an extreme setting.