Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 6K

[Skip77]

1 hour ago, Emanuel said:

Did you see anyone to cry over there? Deception?? Really? Where? I didn't. Just people wondering about where's the footage, myself included and I placed my pre-order anyway. Well, internet is a vast ocean in fact. Lots of fake news... LOL : -)

 

I can't say the same how easy certain type of people jump to presume anything out of their knowledge, with no wondering at all as fair and necessary principle, i.e., an efficient way to gather information.

But invariably based on nonsensical certainties to say the least : D

 

For some reason the word 'similar' is there. 'Identical' instead doesn't necessarily mean 100% identical as much as identical twins are not the same body either ; -)

 

The footage was on BMD website and you referenced the P4K footage in the middle and still made comments about no footage for the 6K.   

Knowing how to navigate a website and gather information is easy.

Did you actually see 6k video footage on BMD website and still comment that we have no footage? C'mon tell us. 

Sorry but the 2x bigger lens mount is giveaway that one is different camera. Am not sure why you keep commenting about the bodies being similar?  

1 hour ago, mercer said:

So only 120fps in 2.8K mode is windowed?

Not really. Most of the shooters on this site aren’t cinematographers by the criteria of the title, they’re videographers. But for the point of your argument, that’s just semantics.

So, I digress... if you look at professional cinematographers and the films/tv shows produced and released, only a very small percentage is captured in 4K and higher and even less is distributed in 4K and higher. So the argument is that if it’s good enough for an Alexa and your local multiplex, 9 out of 10 times it’s good enough for a smart phone distribution.

With that being said, technological advancements are great and hopefully the major players will get hit hard by these smaller camera companies releasing bleeding edge features that us mere mortals can afford. I’m sure the C500 Mark II’s price tag won’t look so great at IBC when BlackMagic is showing off their $2500 camera.

Yes only 120fps is windowed and that's 2.8K.

I think most films are filmed in 4k.  Doesn't Netflix require everything to be delivered in 4K?  at least it's original content. 

My questioning was connected to content providers wanting 4K deliverables for the future. That answers the "why we need it" the other answer should be "why not?"

 

[mercer]

42 minutes ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

6k will hold more detail and give more framing options. You'd think the bigger sensor would yield more dynamic range but I guess that's not the case. 4k 120fps and 1 stop more of dynamic range would have made this camera a lot more compelling. Still close to 3k at 120fps is a decent step up. Bigger sensor is always a plus, if it can be speedboosted you'll get a full frame FOV.

I don't think it will kill URSA sales that much. For someone who likes working with cinema bodies I don't see why you'd step down to a DSLR looking thing. But I think its a great, more options is always better. Glad they aren't incredibly afraid of keeping their "cinema line" safe, as other companies seem to do, other than maybe Panasonic. 

I compose in camera but for some folks, I see the benefit. I don’t know if 6K will give an perceived increase in detail over 4K other than annoying sharpness.

Now, I wasn’t referring to loss of sales from people in the market for a cinema camera, I’m talking about the folks who started with a P4K and may want to upgrade to the Ursa for the specs, those could be lost sales.

With that being said, I am considering a larger scale short film in the winter. This camera could be perfect with its’ 6K anamorphic mode could be useful for a camera/lens rental package but as a purchase, this camera is just not really here nor there for me. At the price, rigged out, you are getting way too close to EVA1 and C200 territory, which are more workhorse cameras in my opinion. 

I’m hoping the Sigma FP will come in less than $2000.

[thephoenix]

1 minute ago, mercer said:

I compose in camera but for some folks, I see the benefit. I don’t know if 6K will give an perceived increase in detail over 4K other than annoying sharpness.

Now, I wasn’t referring to loss of sales from people in the market for a cinema camera, I’m talking about the folks who started with a P4K and may want to upgrade to the Ursa for the specs, those could be lost sales.

With that being said, I am considering a larger scale short film in the winter. This camera could be perfect with its’ 6K anamorphic mode could be useful for a camera/lens rental package but as a purchase, this camera is just not really here nor there for me. At the price, rigged out, you are getting way too close to EVA1 and C200 territory, which are more workhorse cameras in my opinion. 

I’m hoping the Sigma FP will come in less than $2000.

depends on what you want / need on your rig, but personnaly i can use all i already have except that i need to buy a cage, so not major investment needed.

the only thing i would buy is an evf as i really can't frame and focus with the screen, i just don't "feel" it using the screen.

 

[Video Hummus]

All this resolution talk....you simply film in the highest resolution you can (time and budget allows) without it effecting greatly your editing workflow for the platform you are delivering for.

[mercer]

13 minutes ago, Skip77 said:

The footage was on BMD website and you referenced the P4K footage in the middle and still made comments about no footage for the 6K.   

Knowing how to navigate a website and gather information is easy.

Did you actually see 6k video footage on BMD website and still comment that we have no footage? C'mon tell us. 

Sorry but the 2x bigger lens mount is giveaway that one is different camera. Am not sure why you keep commenting about the bodies being similar?  

Yes only 120fps is windowed and that's 2.8K.

I think most films are filmed in 4k.  Doesn't Netflix require everything to be delivered in 4K?  at least it's original content. 

My questioning was connected to content providers wanting 4K deliverables for the future. That answers the "why we need it" the other answer should be "why not?"

 

Thanks.

Sorry, no most films are not shot in 4K. The Alexa is the most used camera in Hollywood and it is basically 3K with the intent to deliver in 2K. Netflix only requires 4K for their original content.

As to why not... read my above post. But everyone’s different so if you need/want 4K... that’s great, you have a lot of great options in the marketplace. 

[Video Hummus]

5 minutes ago, mercer said:

Sorry, no most films are not shot in 4K. The Alexa is the most used camera in Hollywood and it is basically 3K

I think some of that is driven by the fact they shoot RAW or ProRes 4444 XQ and the data adds up on feature films.

[christrad]

Pocket 6K will be available in France next week!

2 699,00 €.

French Digistore

I just receive an email where they say it will be available next week but just few units...

That was fast, and I'm not even registered on this site! (Well not that i remembered)

If only I had the money , it could be a great update from my old but beloved NX1!

[Emanuel]

1 hour ago, Skip77 said:

The footage was on BMD website and you referenced the P4K footage in the middle and still made comments about no footage for the 6K.   

Knowing how to navigate a website and gather information is easy.

Did you actually see 6k video footage on BMD website and still comment that we have no footage? C'mon tell us.

Sorry but the 2x bigger lens mount is giveaway that one is different camera. Am not sure why you keep commenting about the bodies being similar?  

This is hilarious... LOL No more comments other than:

I didn't notice, dude, that's it, for a simple reason, it is not referred there either on their press release:

https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/au/media/release/20190808-01

...nor on their product page I had actually linked in some post of mine along one of these thread pages:

https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/au/products/blackmagicpocketcinemacamera

Neither on YT where I took a look. My bad. Ready to be crucified by you. I don't see anyone else here so you must handle the task, be brave ; ) Can we leave it for next life, please?

Because it's enough of quotes of mine by your hands today BTW. I have here more people to divide my attention with.

As said, the only video there in the middle of the page was not made with the P6K but the P4K, hence the wondering... But once your insistence, do a favor to some other distracted people like me and help them to notice it putting there a more visible link to the footage. We will address all votes of confidence to you, count on it ; -) On the bodies remark produced by me and even before by Andrew with his "almost identical" comment, nuff said. Put the whole fuss to rest and be happy!

[thebrothersthre3]

1 hour ago, mercer said:

I compose in camera but for some folks, I see the benefit. I don’t know if 6K will give an perceived increase in detail over 4K other than annoying sharpness.

Now, I wasn’t referring to loss of sales from people in the market for a cinema camera, I’m talking about the folks who started with a P4K and may want to upgrade to the Ursa for the specs, those could be lost sales.

With that being said, I am considering a larger scale short film in the winter. This camera could be perfect with its’ 6K anamorphic mode could be useful for a camera/lens rental package but as a purchase, this camera is just not really here nor there for me. At the price, rigged out, you are getting way too close to EVA1 and C200 territory, which are more workhorse cameras in my opinion. 

I’m hoping the Sigma FP will come in less than $2000.

The EVA1 is nice but at this point I might prefer the Panasonic S1 or soon to come S1H. The lack of internal RAW in the EVA1 is kind of a big bummer

[Skip77]

2 hours ago, mercer said:

I almost wonder if BM functions day to day from the money they make from preorders... joking.

I actually think this is a strange camera release and they’re banking on the desire of enthusiasts and up and coming filmmakers to drink the Kool Aid. If I’m being honest, I’m almost offended that less than 2 months ago, people were still waiting for their pre-ordered P4K and then they release this. Also, what does this camera do to Ursa sales? I’m sure a lot of folks were planning or considering a jump from the P4K to the Ursa and now don’t have to.

Interesting.

Are you the cat or the guy in your avatar? Just kidding.

Am I the smartest guy on these boards?  

It's like this:

The market is very scattered right now with Canon, Nikon, Panasonic and Sony all relaxing or about to release cameras that do 4K RAW or at least 4K 10 bit.  Then you have the ZCam and P4K as great looking cine run small form cameras. BM knows that the P4K is a value and a lot of people bought that camera but that didn't mean they are exclusively BMD users and might never buy BM again.  

BM released the 6K because it needed to fill the void in the $2-3K price range and also upgrade to ASP-C and 6K. BM doesn't want you to buy one cine camera from them but they want you to buy into the BM echo system and stay. That's also what us consumers are trying to do. We want one brand and we want to stay loyal and build our production gear around it.  

Why did the people on this board pre-order the 6K? Do they already own BM gear? or do they own EF glass? 

The Ursa mini line up is old in the tooth and needs a make over.  It has value and is good but needs to be update from the inside out. This is probably what's happening. The Ursa sensors goto the 6K and a new better sensor for to the Ursa min replacement. 

Is Canon or Sony introducing new cine cameras like BM or even the S1H?  How relevant is the FS7 once we get into 2020 and it still hasn't been updated. 

BM is the disruptor and value for specs is what they offer. 

 

 

 

[Skip77]

1 hour ago, mercer said:

Thanks.

Sorry, no most films are not shot in 4K. The Alexa is the most used camera in Hollywood and it is basically 3K with the intent to deliver in 2K. Netflix only requires 4K for their original content.

As to why not... read my above post. But everyone’s different so if you need/want 4K... that’s great, you have a lot of great options in the marketplace. 

Netflix demands original content be filmed in 4K.

https://partnerhelp.netflixstudios.com/hc/en-us/articles/229150387-Why-does-Netflix-require-4K-on-Netflix-Originals-

Question:

Why does Netflix require 4K on Netflix Originals?

Answer:

In 2014, Netflix made the decision to begin shooting and delivering all Originals in 4K. This decision was made for several reasons, the most of important of which is to future-proof our content. 

4K is here, and adoption of 4K in the home in increasing. In just a few years, it will be harder to find an HD television than a 4K television. For this reason, we feel it only makes sense to shoot natively in the format that most of our customers will see for years to come.

The experience for customers viewing HD is still fantastic. Our encoding pipeline takes a 4K master and produces beautiful HD (and SD) streams for all those customers who are viewing on smaller or older displays.

 

------------------------

 

Please read my post again.  I never said I needed it.   I said it's basically bizarre that people on here push back against 4K.  I honestly can't understand how film makers (anyone shooting video) doesn't understand how the market works or why they wouldn't want 4K.  I understand whee the market is right now and how many can view 4K content but I already addressed why 4K is needed. 

SO YES - original movies created for Netflix are 100% shot in 4K. 

15 hours ago, Emanuel said:

Have anyone noticed the video in the middle of that page? Shot on P4K, I wonder how this camera can be available right now if seems they don't have any footage to show up yet...

 

 

 

 

How we forget the web of misinformation that was spun. 

And you SAID you pre-ordered the 6K? Why? 

[Emanuel]

Again? Never tired? LOL Should I pay you to free myself? LOL ; )

What spun? That post is exactly the one of mine related to the only video available on their P6K product page, already referred in my last one addressed to you up there. I find a bit odd they placed that video shot with the P4K into the P6K version page. Does it make sense to you? Not to me. No big deal in any case whatsoever, just a little chaotic to my view, once they actually have another page with the right footage. Only not there. Not a shock people are not aware of it. Even more hidden would only be a surprise then, really.

Dude, don't you want your vote of confidence, after all? : D

Yes, I've pre-ordered the new camera once I am rather satisfied with the previous investments made on the brand. I see this capture device as an improvement and technological update.

[thephoenix]

2 hours ago, christrad said:

Pocket 6K will be available in France next week!

2 699,00 €.

French Digistore

I just receive an email where they say it will be available next week but just few units...

That was fast, and I'm not even registered on this site! (Well not that i remembered)

If only I had the money , it could be a great update from my old but beloved NX1!

many french stores will have it.

a few each, starting monday

[mercer]

41 minutes ago, Skip77 said:

Am I the smartest guy on these boards?  

 

No.

Are you the most argumentative for no reason whatsoever?

As far as Netflix... umm... yeah that’s what I said.

As far as 4K? I don’t think anybody disagrees with you about future proofing. That is a solid argument in favor of 4K and the argument has been around for 5+ years, yet 5 years after the advent of 4K into the consumer market and over 10 years since Red released 4K into a cinema camera, most US Network Television is still broadcasted in 720p.

So, I don’t see people pushing against it, I see some people choosing not to use it.

Obviously, 4K is the future, but it doesn’t mean that 2K is obsolete because a small percentage of content ON (not created by) Netflix is in 4K.

[Dunjoye]

4 hours ago, Kisaha said:

Nothing is future proof, except maybe the Giza pyramid!

4K is not obsolete. It will be when the majority of people buy 8K TVs and a production company asks for an 8K delivery. 

6K is good because it could improve your 4K workflow.

P4K is so cheap already that I doubt we will see a significant difference in price anytime soon.

What adapters and lenses do you use it with?

Yeah, I agree that no camera can be future proof. But, some cameras do stand the test of time at least for a 5-10 year period. Red, c100s and co.

Within the last 5-7 years, we can agree that the following are now dead in the water. Ursa , UM4k UM4.6K, Micro.

Personally, I like the pocket 4k. That was the camera I always wanted the first BMCC to be and with a few firmware upgrades there is soo much potential for improvement rather than a new system in such a short space of time.

I use a viltrox speed reducer and the Tamron 24-70 2.8 with my pocket 4k. No rigs, just body and battery and it's so convenient 

[mercer]

2 hours ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

The EVA1 is nice but at this point I might prefer the Panasonic S1 or soon to come S1H. The lack of internal RAW in the EVA1 is kind of a big bummer

The S1H and FP are the two big question marks going forward. I can’t foresee myself putting out $4000 for an S1H. Hopefully, the FP will be at or below $2000. I don’t love that you need a SSD for Raw but after seeing the cages Tilta designed for the P4K, it’s not a deal breaker either.

But at my level, I probably should invest in the actual production than the next best camera. 

I think I may rent the P6K, though because I am curious.

[Mako Sports]

3 hours ago, Skip77 said:

The Ursa mini line up is old in the tooth and needs a make over.  It has value and is good but needs to be update from the inside out. This is probably what's happening. The Ursa sensors goto the 6K and a new better sensor for to the Ursa min replacement. 

Is Canon or Sony introducing new cine cameras like BM or even the S1H?  How relevant is the FS7 once we get into 2020 and it still hasn't been updated. 

BM is the disruptor and value for specs is what they offer. 

Ursa Mini Pro G2 would like a word with you, 15 stops of DR upto 3200 ISO (claimed) and 4.6K up to 120 fps, 300 fps at 1080p.

[Skip77]

8 minutes ago, Mako Sports said:

Ursa Mini Pro G2 would like a word with you, 15 stops of DR upto 3200 ISO (claimed) and 4.6K up to 120 fps, 300 fps at 1080p.

Oh I do like that update.  The outside is old. 

[Emanuel]

3 hours ago, mercer said:

No.

Are you the most argumentative for no reason whatsoever?

More than that, this guy is a mere troll. He doesn't even refrain himself to be hostile if he feels necessary. He's entitled to his own judgement on everything and anything : D Have you seen how he's provocative to put that "SAID" in capital letters...? LOL : P

Honor is priceless, no matter wherever... Even in the middle of a joke being the case. At least, to my book. Respect not less.

Actually, it was not only pre-ordered from one but two places in cue from August 9 on along two different UK suppliers. I recommend everyone in Europe with VAT number to buy from there because of GBP price nowadays -- PROAV offers a better quotation.

 

 

 

 

[Jonesy Jones]

Just watched all the sample vids of the P6K on BM’s website again and I am truly impressed. I didn’t think I’d care about 6K or S35, and maybe I don’t, but whatever is going on with that image is gorgeous. Oddly, 6K doesn’t look clinically sharp. It just looks right. Perhaps the larger sensor is helping. I have no idea. The color. The feels. Perfect.