Blackmagic Micro Cinema Super Guide and Why It Still Matters

[heart0less]

8 hours ago, kye said:

And here is my entry for most ridiculous Micro rig, the competition that no-one asked for and no-one will find useful.

I completely forgot that you own a Micro.

I'd be a little worried about the lens mount, since what's in front of it looks like WEIGHT, but apart from that - it's actually quite handy.
Great for some abstract, graphic-like compositions.

[kye]

33 minutes ago, heart0less said:

I completely forgot that you own a Micro.

I'd be a little worried about the lens mount, since what's in front of it looks like WEIGHT, but apart from that - it's actually quite handy.
Great for some abstract, graphic-like compositions.

I haven't, although I haven't used it as much as I had anticipated.

Even when I put that on my GH5 for sports, which is a setup I actually use in real-life, I get a little concerned about weight on the mount.  I've wondered about retrofitting some kind of lens mount onto the zoom, unfortunately there isn't room on the lens for anything to be strapped around it as it would obscure the control rings.  I could put something around the TC though - it's just a cylinder on the outside, although I don't always use the TC, so it wouldn't always suit.

1200mm is quite useful though, recording sunsets where the sun is huge in frame is a good example of that kind of focal length.

[PannySVHS]

@kye great setup and lens. Should give you some impressive image quality. You can also play with the Gh5, with its 1.4 crop mode giving you Super 16 format plus 4K.

[BTM_Pix]

1 hour ago, kye said:

Even when I put that on my GH5 for sports, which is a setup I actually use in real-life, I get a little concerned about weight on the mount.  I've wondered about retrofitting some kind of lens mount onto the zoom, unfortunately there isn't room on the lens for anything to be strapped around it as it would obscure the control rings.  I could put something around the TC though - it's just a cylinder on the outside, although I don't always use the TC, so it wouldn't always suit.

If you don't want to put rails on your rig then Andoer have a pretty effective adjustable lens support that attaches to the tripod mount of your cage.

Its about £30-40 so not exactly free but cheaper than a new lens mount and will stand you in good stead if you end up buying even heavier long primes in the future.

[kye]

1 hour ago, PannySVHS said:

@kye great setup and lens. Should give you some impressive image quality. You can also play with the Gh5, with its 1.4 crop mode giving you Super 16 format plus 4K.

Or the GH5 using the ETC mode in 1080 gives a 1:1 crop, which I think is something like 2.8x crop of the 2x MFT crop, making it a crop factor of 5.6 and making the 210mm + 2xTC something like 2350mm!

Of course, focal lengths this long are basically unusable because any source of movement, even a slight breeze or people walking, will blur the image.

59 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

If you don't want to put rails on your rig then Andoer have a pretty effective adjustable lens support that attaches to the tripod mount of your cage.

Its about £30-40 so not exactly free but cheaper than a new lens mount and will stand you in good stead if you end up buying even heavier long primes in the future.

That thing is pretty cool.  The wheels make sense in how it would allow weight onto a moving part, unfortunately the FD 70-210 is one of those push/pull to zoom lenses (pump action lenses?  if they're not called that they totally should be!).

It's less of a problem really, as the lens is MF I'm kind of taking some of the weight of the lens while holding it anyway.  I use a monopod with it, but that's more for stability during shooting.  

I'll see how I go.  It's been so long since the young fella played last season that I've forgotten what's what!

[BTM_Pix]

4 minutes ago, kye said:

 

That thing is pretty cool.  The wheels make sense in how it would allow weight onto a moving part, unfortunately the FD 70-210 is one of those push/pull to zoom lenses (pump action lenses?  if they're not called that they totally should be!).

It's less of a problem really, as the lens is MF I'm kind of taking some of the weight of the lens while holding it anyway.  I use a monopod with it, but that's more for stability during shooting.  

I'll see how I go.  It's been so long since the young fella played last season that I've forgotten what's what!

"One Touch Zoom" was the term when I was a nipper although I have seen people refer to them as "Trombone"

Yeah, its not ideal for that type of lens although, looking at it, the wheels look narrow enough to support if just behind the aperture ring on your lens.

Alternatively, if you don't mind losing a few mm at the short end of the zoom it could sit just ahead of the aperture ring.

 

[PannySVHS]

@kye I think the Super 16 mode of the GH5 would be a good mate to your BMMCC, with 4K 10bit up to 30p. ETC HD 1 to 1 crop would be very noisy.

[Matt Kieley]

If anyone wants to try this camera out, I'm selling mine. I made a post in the "Gear For Sale" section.

[bjohn]

On 2/9/2020 at 4:50 AM, mercer said:

Since navigating the menus can be a chore on the Micro you can set it at 4400 for raw 3:1 and then change it up or down as needed in post.

FYI, there's an interesting discussion about "native white balance" on the BMMCC sensor here:

https://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=114403

The upshot appears to be that if you set the WB on the BMMCC to 5500 and shoot at ISO 800 (the native ISO for this camera), you have as much latitude in ProRes HQ for adjusting WB and exposure as you would if you shot in raw. I haven't tried this myself but I have noticed that ProRes HQ files have plenty of latitude for WB and exposure adjustment anyway, but I'm normally shooting in daylight so this might explain why I've experienced so much flexibility.

[DFason]

I am lurking for a used micro but wanted to ask a few questions. 

With the SD card issue did anyone find something that works now? Currently August 2020? 

If I buy a BM recorder, could I record to it instead of the SD card? 

Thanks in advance! If anyone knows someone selling, I would love to buy! 

-Dave

[bjohn]

On 8/4/2020 at 1:39 PM, DFason said:

I am lurking for a used micro but wanted to ask a few questions. 

With the SD card issue did anyone find something that works now? Currently August 2020? 

If I buy a BM recorder, could I record to it instead of the SD card?

There are a number of SD cards that work, but not many can record at 60fps if you want to use it for that. I have tried the Kingston Canvas React 128gig card and it's fine for ProRes and Raw 3:1 up to 30 fps but no higher. There are a few threads on the BMD forum that might be helpful, but you have to wade through a lot of trial and error; here's the main thread but there are others that you can discover through Google searches:

https://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=83050

As for using a BM recorder, I assume you mean the Video Assist? That'll work as long as you don't buy the original Video Assist, which has the same card compatibility problem. However if you get the new generation of Video Assists there should be compatible cards now. You can only record ProRes, not raw to the Video Assist from the BMMCC, but I mainly use ProRes HQ myself and only occasionally shoot Raw 3:1; the image quality and flexibility of ProRes HQ is more than adequate for my project needs. I think on the cheaper set of new Video Assists announced a couple of weeks ago there may be a frame rate limitation (i.e., they won't record 60fps) but I haven't verified.

[bjohn]

20 minutes ago, bjohn said:

 I think on the cheaper set of new Video Assists announced a couple of weeks ago there may be a frame rate limitation (i.e., they won't record 60fps) but I haven't verified.

Replying to my own post to say that according to the BMD website, the new 3G Video Assists (the cheaper models, announced a couple of weeks ago) do in fact record up to 60 fps so you should be good. Only Prores, though; the BMMCC does not output raw over HDMI. BMD provides a list (in the Support section of their website) of SD cards compatible with the new 3G Video Assist models. Of course if you spend more money you can get the HDR video assists that can also record to usb-c drives, which might be a smart solution for longer term compatibility.

[DFason]

6 hours ago, bjohn said:

Replying to my own post to say that according to the BMD website, the new 3G Video Assists (the cheaper models, announced a couple of weeks ago) do in fact record up to 60 fps so you should be good. Only Prores, though; the BMMCC does not output raw over HDMI. BMD provides a list (in the Support section of their website) of SD cards compatible with the new 3G Video Assist models. Of course if you spend more money you can get the HDR video assists that can also record to usb-c drives, which might be a smart solution for longer term compatibility.

Thanks for taking the time to answer. I have a handful of older Sandisk cards that could work. I don't want 60 frame much BUT would love to have the option here and there. 

The new HDR assist could be a better option down for long term use using USB drives. I use that and CF cards on my 4K. 

Thank you again. 

-Dave

[Mr. Freeze]

13 hours ago, bjohn said:

There are a number of SD cards that work, but not many can record at 60fps if you want to use it for that. I have tried the Kingston Canvas React 128gig card and it's fine for ProRes and Raw 3:1 up to 30 fps but no higher.

I have the Canvas React as well, and mine does 50p in 3:1 Raw. 60p is only possible with my older Sandisk Extreme Pro.

[crevice]

On 8/4/2020 at 10:39 AM, DFason said:

I am lurking for a used micro but wanted to ask a few questions. 

With the SD card issue did anyone find something that works now? Currently August 2020? 

If I buy a BM recorder, could I record to it instead of the SD card? 

Thanks in advance! If anyone knows someone selling, I would love to buy! 

-Dave

I might have an extra micro package for sale, as I have a couple laying around. The one I have for sale is a more premium kit though. It comes with the micro, smallrig cage, metabones speedbooster "T" version, rawlite OLPF (already installed) , NPF battery bridge, and sandisk SD cards that work with the micro (all tested). PM me if interested.

[DFason]

6 hours ago, Mr. Freeze said:

I have the Canvas React as well, and mine does 50p in 3:1 Raw. 60p is only possible with my older Sandisk Extreme Pro.

I picked up a couple Canvas Select Plus after reading the BM forums. I'd be happy with 48-50P in raw when needed. 

4 hours ago, crevice said:

I might have an extra micro package for sale, as I have a couple laying around. The one I have for sale is a more premium kit though. It comes with the micro, smallrig cage, metabones speedbooster "T" version, rawlite OLPF (already installed) , NPF battery bridge, and sandisk SD cards that work with the micro (all tested). PM me if interested.

PM sent and thanks for replying! 

-Dave

[bjohn]

15 hours ago, DFason said:

I have a handful of older Sandisk cards that could work.

That's good, same here, and if you can get more from the owner when you buy a used BMMCC so much the better. I bought one of my BMMCCs new and the other used; the used one came with two more cards in addition to the five or six I already had so I probably now have a lifetime supply. You can reformat them thousands of times with no worry and I reckon they'll last many years.

It's a great camera. I keep getting tempted to update to something that can shoot 4k, but then look at the image quality and the flexible form factor (and the investment I've made in mine, which include the Rawlite OLPF on both of them plus Dmitry Shijan's excellent battery pack and other accessories) and figure I should just dig in and keep using them until they (or I) die. There's something to be said for sticking with one camera for a long time: you get to know its quirks and how to get the best out of it. The footage I'm shooting now with these cameras is so much better than what I shot with them at the beginning. I would say the only drawbacks are the poor low-light performance (and noise) and the godawful menu buttons. There are some good remotes (the One Little Remote and a new smaller one under development by a guy in Japan) that minimize or eliminate the need to ever use the menu buttons and they make life a lot easier.

[BTM_Pix]

38 minutes ago, bjohn said:

The godawful menu buttons. There are some good remotes (the One Little Remote and a new smaller one under development by a guy in Japan) that minimize or eliminate the need to ever use the menu buttons and they make life a lot easier.

If you don't mind a bit of DIY, you can knock together an effective remote yourself for £20. 

Its four channels so you could control Aperture/ISO/WB/Focus with it for example.

 

[DFason]

40 minutes ago, bjohn said:

That's good, same here, and if you can get more from the owner when you buy a used BMMCC so much the better. I bought one of my BMMCCs new and the other used; the used one came with two more cards in addition to the five or six I already had so I probably now have a lifetime supply. You can reformat them thousands of times with no worry and I reckon they'll last many years.

It's a great camera. I keep getting tempted to update to something that can shoot 4k, but then look at the image quality and the flexible form factor (and the investment I've made in mine, which include the Rawlite OLPF on both of them plus Dmitry Shijan's excellent battery pack and other accessories) and figure I should just dig in and keep using them until they (or I) die. There's something to be said for sticking with one camera for a long time: you get to know its quirks and how to get the best out of it. The footage I'm shooting now with these cameras is so much better than what I shot with them at the beginning. I would say the only drawbacks are the poor low-light performance (and noise) and the godawful menu buttons. There are some good remotes (the One Little Remote and a new smaller one under development by a guy in Japan) that minimize or eliminate the need to ever use the menu buttons and they make life a lot easier.

Again thanks for the input. I love the 4k but again rigging it out for outdoor use paired with hiking is brutal. I could run without a Vmount but the battery is horrid as you know. 

I picked up the HDMI, expansion port, rosette mount from Shijans. I was planning on using my FD speed booster with micro and 17,24,35,50 with it. It would be nice to have a remote for other lens down the road. 

Storage as well is a big thing for me. Some personal projects taking up ungodly amounts of room on the 4K. 

Lastly I am going to use the micro in a custom underwater housing I a building. For the time being I will use a Outex housing with a Laiwa 7.5mm. 

Some examples of photography that I am aiming for with the micro. 

Untitled by Dave Fason, on Flickr

BelizeLow-135 by Dave Fason, on Flickr

-Dave

[bjohn]

I love those split shots (above/below water)! That would be really cool.

I actually don't use a remote anymore as I'm only using fully manual lenses and am starting to shoot Raw 3:1 instead of ProRes, so setting the white balance isn't crucial and there's nothing else to adjust (I never alter the frame rate or ISO and only occasionally alter shutter angle). But you do have to go in and adjust the date/time every day and I've never seen a remote that does that, plus you have to use the menu buttons to format your SD card. I've gotten used to navigating them but even after a few years it's still hit and miss. The date and time start to drift pretty quickly, usually after a day.

The Canon batteries are not actually that bad, at least compared with the original Pocket camera with its Nikon batteries where I never got more than 15 minutes; with the BMMCC I can usually get 30-45 minutes from one of the Canons so I use them when I am traveling overseas or when using my Glidecam to save weight. Otherwise I use Shijan's battery enclosure, which goes for hours and hours (I think at least 4, I've never let it run to find out).