The D-Mount project

[kye]

11 hours ago, rawshooter said:

There's currently no adapter for d-mount to Micro Four Thirds. If it's doable at all, it would need to be deeply recessed into the camera's mount since the flange focal distance of d-mount is 12.29 mm vs. 19.25 mm of Micro Four Thirds. For comparison, Pentax Q only has 9.2mm.

You can get them, but they're expensive and they do go far into the mount.  I can't remember if they're MFT -> DMount or MFT -> CMount -> DMount but I remember finding something and deciding it was too expensive, but you can get them.

17 hours ago, D1305696 said:

Hi kye: I still need to ask you what's a "P4k" ? [Is it a Panasonic 4k camera, like a Lumix G7? I know that the G7 has a four thirds/ 17.3x13mm sensor, and probably one can still shoot on a 8mm lens, with vignette effect]

My clear preference was for an action camera, too - but I think I need to put it on hold for the moment. I also considered buying a cheaper action cam (e.g. an Akaso), and to grind away the metal body & try to fit the D-mount lenses, but honestly the point is to get some good quality, otherwise looks like wasted time.

Finally, in one of my pure idealist moments, I was thinking to try to film on the 8mm vintage cameras that I'm currently try to purchase

Thanks again for your pieces of advice,

Florin

P4K is the BlackMagic Pocket 4K camera which is MFT and does 4K60 RAW, so it's an absolute cinema beast.

[rawshooter]

3 hours ago, kye said:

You can get them, but they're expensive and they do go far into the mount.  I can't remember if they're MFT -> DMount or MFT -> CMount -> DMount but I remember finding something and deciding it was too expensive, but you can get them.

 

I am aware of - and have tried myself - two solutions:

a) a 3D-printed, very flimsy and plasticky d-mount to MFT adapter: https://www.shapeways.com/product/DSCYGUU7D/d-mount-to-micro-four-thirds-adapter . In my practical experience, most d-mount lenses can't be fully screwed into it; it doesn't reach infinity focus and doesn't provide a solid-enough base for the lens. (I.e. the lens isn't precisely aligned to the sensor, and you risk breaking the adapter only by pulling focus.)

b) d-mount to c-mount adapters: https://fotodioxpro.com/products/d-c-pro - this is a simple step-up ring which doesn't compensate the flange focal distance difference between the two mounts (c-mount: 17.5mm, d-mount: 12.29mm). Adapted lenses won't reach anything near infinity either and can only be used as macro lenses.

[D1305696]

Hello: I was aware myself of the solution that rawshooter indicated under a) D-Mount to Micro Four Thirds Adapter - it goes deeper into the mount.

There is a nice youtube video of a Kern Paillard D-mount cine lens compared to a modern Sony 18-35mm f/1.8 [price ~EUR 700], adapter is indeed from Shapeways. In my view, the adapter looks a bit clumsy - but the youtube video doesn't mention any problems with the fitting.

@kye: Ok, thanks a lot - I'm not familiar with the Black Magic Pocket 4k. I had a look on Amazon and it's 1200/1300 EUR 🙄(so, this is the price of 2 GoPro cameras modified by Back-Bone:). I thought you referred to a Lumix GH4 or G7, which is also a four thirds sensor & more budget friendly . I saw some recommendations on the web on how to fit a C-mount into a Lumix GH4, via an adapter - looks ok! But of course C-mount lenses are way more expensive than D-mount ones...

 

[leslie]

i looked at the ribcage backbone, i had an issue with the price and the fact that every lens when mounted pretty much becomes a telephoto. couldn't really find a normal type view  (perhaps i missed something somewhere) so you have either a wide fish eye view or telephoto lens. when i looked at the ribcage it was about $1300. But thats most likely the aussie dollar swimming around at the bottom of the fishtank. Dont get me wrong i like the little gopro's, i have 2 and they have their good points. I'm quite happy to attach the go pros to a kite and send them above. i wouldn't thy that with the black magic p4k lol

[D1305696]

@leslie: I guess the ribcage kit price is indeed a bit high (on the other hand, it's innovation: somebody came up with an idea and should make some money out of it:). Anyway, once modified, the GoPro no longer waterproof, so this may raise usage problems for you as a surfer

[D1305696]

dear all: checked on the BMPCC 4k (which was off my budget @1400 Eur), but discovered BMPCC first generation sensor super 16mm.

It had very good reviews, I know that it will not shoot 4k, but as long as quality is very good, I don't care too much (I don't have a 4k TV or screen). I found this camera 2nd hand at prices ranging from 400-550 Eur (~450-600$), which I think is very reasonable. The best part seems to be that due to its small sensor which is very similar to regular 16mm cameras, C-mount vintage lenses may be use (without vignetting) and - also it seems to accommodate some D-mount lenses with some vignetting.

Does anyone have experience with vintage lenses C-mount/D-mount on the BMPCC first generation? thanks a lot!

 

[leslie]

i think theres at least one thread on eoshd for the original pocket. you might have to search for it however. the original was / is quite popular

theres this link it may help  

 

[D1305696]

@Leslie : thanks very much, I'm reading it - it is informative. I'm also searching the eoshd forum for reviews on the BMCC first model.

However, at a first sight, it doesn't seem for me: quite large, one cannot use the existing screen - but has to buy an external monitor & external battery, has to adjust the settings - and sometimes do post-production processing in RAW. Not sure I have the time & budget for these things... Especially being an amateur:) But it is amazing that the more one reads & discusses with other people, the more knowledge he acquires - so, I'm really happy with the research & exchanges for these past weeks.

- I'll stick to a first check on the Pentax Q-S1, which I just bought. Delivery of the D-mount lenses & adapter is delayed

- Will try later the RibCage kit for the GoPro 4 [a second hand cam is ±150$], and experiment with the D-mount lenses I already bought [kern-paillard and berthiot cinor]. If all goes well & happy with the results - I will consider maybe a modified GoPro 7 Back-bone. (I already own a GoPro Hero+LCD and at 1080/60 fps the movie quality was VERY DECENT in good light)

- I'm also looking into the S-mount interchangeable lenses for GoPro Hero 7, I saw a website that sell specific S-mopunt lenses/ e.g.  5.4mm 10 Megapixel Low Distortion lens. There is also a wide range of lenses from another company Peau Productions - but not sure why, they make it look very complicated.

Thanks to all& will keep you updated! F

[BTM_Pix]

2 minutes ago, D1305696 said:

However, at a first sight, it doesn't seem for me: quite large, one cannot use the existing screen - but has to buy an external monitor & external battery, has to adjust the settings - and sometimes do post-production processing in RAW. Not sure I have the time & budget for these things... Especially being an amateur:) But it is amazing that the more one reads & discusses with other people, the more knowledge he acquires - so, I'm really happy with the research & exchanges for these past weeks.

I think you might be mixing up the BMPCC (Pocket) with the BMMCC (Micro) ?

The Pocket is fully self contained in terms of monitor, settings adjustment and battery whereas the Micro requires the external monitor etc.

Both cameras also record in ProRes so you don't have to go near the RAW aspect if you don't want tot.

The Pocket doesn't do 60p but they are significantly cheaper used than the Micro and I think its a far more practical solution to what you want to do than trying to modify action cameras.

It will also grow with you if you want to experiment with different lenses as its adaptable to pretty much anything.

It also helps that the image it produces is pretty nice.

[rawshooter]

On 4/30/2020 at 9:22 PM, D1305696 said:

Does anyone have experience with vintage lenses C-mount/D-mount on the BMPCC first generation? thanks a lot

Yes - still have it and love it. But I'd advise you against this camera because it is prone to infrared pollution (=brown image tint) in practically every light situation, so you always need an IR cut filter in front of the lens. And that's very hard to do with c-mount lenses and the often irregular filter diameters. Also, the native ISO of the camera is 800, so you would need ND filters when shooting outdoors.

On top of that, most c-mount lenses only cover 2/3" sensors respectively traditional 16mm (not Super 16mm) film. That means that you will get vignetting at 1080p recording and need to crop in post to ca. 1440x810 pixels.

D-mount lenses are hard and, in most cases, impossible to adapt to MFT anyway; but their 8mm image circle would leave you with SD resolution, in the range of 720x480. 

Cropped resolutions will be difficult to record and monitor on the tiny display of the first-generation Pocket camera. On top of that, it's not advisable to use an external HDMI monitor with the camera because its HDMI port is directly soldered onto the camera's  mainboard. Both the port and the entire camera can easily be damaged when accidentally pulling a cable. This is a well-known construction flaw of the first-gen Pocket. If you buy a used one, pay attention to an undamaged HDMI port.

 

[D1305696]

Hello and firstly: thank you for your reactions.

@BTM_Pix: I was referring to the BMPCC (pocket camera), which indeed has a back screen - but from the reviews it seems that it has poor luminosity, hard-to-use menu and no visibility in the sun. Reviewers strongly advised for using an external screen, a sort of view/box finder & external battery - which would increase the budget with another 3/400$ (a lot in my view). But my earlier post was rather vague, sorry.

@rawshooter: I found several ads for used BMPCCs, ranging from ±450-600 USD, sometimes including accessories (e.g. lumix lenses or cage). thanks for your pieces of advice - probably I'm not experienced enough to pick one, let alone to use it to full potential  I must admit that I saw videos on youtube - in the hands of a pro, looks very high quality.

I'm a fisherman & nature lover and during my nature/boat trips I found myself limited by using a GoPro cam with the fisheye lenses. Was ok for snorkeling. Definitely not ok during a natural reserve trip. I must admit I also lacked accessories (original ones - way too expensive IMHO), so using a GoPro Hero+LCD for a 4 yrs and decided it's time to upgrade. The videos I took are relatively ok in good light (summer sun between 9am-4pm) not good in the evening. Basically I would like:

- to get rid of the fisheye effect

- to have a narrow fov, something between a classic 25-50mm. ideally to also be able to change between the lenses.

- higher aperture for darker environments 

- higher resolution (my former GoPro had only 1080), this can be easily achieved now with newer GoPros. I don't necessarily want 4k.

Best, F

[BTM_Pix]

7 minutes ago, D1305696 said:

@BTM_Pix: I was referring to the BMPCC (pocket camera), which indeed has a back screen - but from the reviews it seems that it has poor luminosity, hard-to-use menu and no visibility in the sun. Reviewers strongly advised for using an external screen, a sort of view/box finder & external battery - which would increase the budget with another 3/400$ (a lot in my view). But my earlier post was rather vague, sorry.

Ah, got you now.

The screen issue isn't something that can't be mitigated with any number of cheap loupe solutions. Using a loupe also adds a point of contact which is useful for stability when shooting with such a lightweight camera.

As far as the menus go, they are easy to navigate not least because there is not a lot in there but in all honesty if you are using the camera with the sort of manual lenses that are talking about using there wouldn't be a lot of menu diving going on anyway.

With regard to power, it can run quite happily on its internal battery but obviously only for a shorter period (25-40mins is a ballpark) but they are cheap enough (and light enough) to buy and carry a few spares if you don't want to attach an external power solution.

If you do want to have long run times then there are plenty of cheap compact battery plates that will accept Sony NP-F compatible batteries to give you all day run times.

Cost wise, the options would approximately be :

Loupe  = £15

4 x Generic internal batteries with£ dual charger = £40 

or 

1 x Battery plate and 2 x NP-F 8800mah generic batteries with dual charger = £40

So, about £55 whichever route you went.

I'm not saying you should go this route if you are unsure about the camera but just letting you know that you don't really need to be spending big money if you did get one.

Although the money you save will probably all have to go on SD cards so its swings and roundabouts !

[kye]

This was shot on the original pocket camera, essentially hand-held with one lens.  It's not essential to rig this up.

You need something with pretty decent 4K to get a similar image (I know, I've been matching my GH5 with my BMMCC).

[D1305696]

@kye: thanks, I think it looks great: sharp image, nice chromatic - looks like a movie:) Just a couple of questions, please:

- did you use a tripod from time to time (e.g. Taj Mahal scenes from a distance)?  

- did you do post production color adjustment/grading?

- with the same lens, was the BMPCC better than the Panasonic GH5? The price of a BMPCC 2nd hand is about the same as the GH5 new (body).

A bit off topic, have you ever used C-mount tele lenses on the BMPCC? I found 2 lenses Berthiot, from the '60s, : Som Berthiot Pan-cinor 2f 17-85mm and Som Berthiot Pan-Cinor 25-100mm f/3,4 [C-Mount], they look rather heavy (2-3kg) and difficult to manipulate. I was wondering if these give good results on a distance.

Alternatively, do you have any thoughts about the D-mount  Berthiot tele 10-30mm f2.8 (smaller, lighter ~380g).

I would like to post a picture of the D-mount lenses I bought, but unfortunately delivery is still delayed... but the Pentax Q has arrived

F

[kye]

10 hours ago, D1305696 said:

@kye: thanks, I think it looks great: sharp image, nice chromatic - looks like a movie:) Just a couple of questions, please:

- did you use a tripod from time to time (e.g. Taj Mahal scenes from a distance)?  

- did you do post production color adjustment/grading?

- with the same lens, was the BMPCC better than the Panasonic GH5? The price of a BMPCC 2nd hand is about the same as the GH5 new (body).

A bit off topic, have you ever used C-mount tele lenses on the BMPCC? I found 2 lenses Berthiot, from the '60s, : Som Berthiot Pan-cinor 2f 17-85mm and Som Berthiot Pan-Cinor 25-100mm f/3,4 [C-Mount], they look rather heavy (2-3kg) and difficult to manipulate. I was wondering if these give good results on a distance.

Alternatively, do you have any thoughts about the D-mount  Berthiot tele 10-30mm f2.8 (smaller, lighter ~380g).

I would like to post a picture of the D-mount lenses I bought, but unfortunately delivery is still delayed... but the Pentax Q has arrived

F

The video isn't mine, so I can't comment, although the video description has a bit of detail.  It says:

Quote

Shot while traveling from Mumbai to Varanasi in January 2014. India is everything that that people say it is and more. Its one of the most photogenic countries i have every been to, hopefully i have captured it here.

Everything was shot on a Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera ( BMPCC ) with a 14mm panasonic lens + a couple of the Varanasi shot were taken with a panasonic 14-45mm zoom. Hopefully this video shows how good this camera is as a run and gun style camera. Allot of this was shot hand held and stabilised using warp. Even though i was pretty happy with how easy it was to get nice shots in hand, even on the boat.

Everything was shot in ProRes on film mode and graded using Davinci Resolve and the OSIRIS Luts, which are a great starting point for any grading work on footage from this camera. I would have loved to have shot this in RAW but because i was traveling i didn't have access to a HD to dump footage onto so space on my 3 cards was important, hence shooting ProRes.

Photos from the trip can also be seen here: oldmate-creative.tumblr.com/

In terms of GH5 vs BMMCC, have a look at this thread:

I'm only new to the BMMCC, so I haven't used many lenses on it.  The only C-mount lens I've used on it is a 12.5mm f1.9 lens, that is a FF equivalent of 35mm, which is my favourite FOV.  If you google you can often see forum threads where people take sample images with a lens, and still images are often of higher quality than video (especially when the video is compressed heavily for streaming services) so they're a good way to get an overall impression of how the lens performs.

[kye]

Probably the ultimate resource for BMPCC and BMMCC and C-Mount lenses is this thread here:

It's the first result in google if you search for "bmpcc C-mount" and it's easily the best thing I've found online.  Lots of lenses mentioned in it, although some of the links and images haven't survived.

[D1305696]

@kye thanks, I started to read through the C-mount forum, a lot of info, need time to read & digest.

So, delivery finally arrived, Bolex 8B8L and four D-mount lenses: Kens-Paillard Yvar f2.8 36mm ; Switar f1.5 12.5mm ; Schneider-Kreuznach Xenoplan f1.9 13mm ; Schneider-Kreuznach Xenoplan f2.8 38mm. No idea about the quality, but at a first sight looks in good shape. Delivery of the adapter for Pentax Q is delayed unfortunately, so cannot post any real pictures/experiences yet.

Will keep you updated:) I wish you all a nice day, F

[kye]

22 minutes ago, D1305696 said:

@kye thanks, I started to read through the C-mount forum, a lot of info, need time to read & digest.

So, delivery finally arrived, Bolex 8B8L and four D-mount lenses: Kens-Paillard Yvar f2.8 36mm ; Switar f1.5 12.5mm ; Schneider-Kreuznach Xenoplan f1.9 13mm ; Schneider-Kreuznach Xenoplan f2.8 38mm. No idea about the quality, but at a first sight looks in good shape. Delivery of the adapter for Pentax Q is delayed unfortunately, so cannot post any real pictures/experiences yet.

Will keep you updated:) I wish you all a nice day, F

All those lenses should be good or great optically as they're the classic manufacturers.  Interesting that the set has a 36mm and 38mm - I wonder if the owner bought one and then upgraded to the other, although I don't know enough about these lenses to know which way around that might have gone.

 Keep us updated, and definitely post some stills if you get a chance!  

[D1305696]

So: D-mount to Pentax Q adapter stuck somewhere on its road from China, cannot try the lenses.

However, I mounter a freshly arrived C-mount Kern Paillard f1.8 16mm on the Pentax, as I had the C-mount adapter (first picture). I send you some pics, during a short walk in my neighborhood. Unfortunately, still need to practice & understand the settings, but the lens seems OK.

I shot in JPEG mode in the afternoon. Yesterday evening try raw, but with the lack of light, I haven't seen much quality [or need to play with the settings]. Have a good WE !

[Nathan Solomon]

I'm going to dive into some 3D CAD for this and design an m12-to-D-mount adapter. I figure the space savings of it being smaller than an m12-to-C-mount adapter (and tailored to this use) will allow it to be less destructive of the housing. I assume I'll first print it to MJF for form/testing, then to metal or carbon resin. If anyone is interested, I'd be glad to have insights while I'm designing, and I'll give you a final print at whatever it costs me. You can see some of my other projects at http://coldmaceration.com