Canon EOS M6 Mark II

[tweak]

You know how there's Godwins Law? There should really be a similar thing for 24p in any EOSHD discussion.

[ntblowz]

2 hours ago, Mattias Burling said:

I  guess Im alone in shooting everything in 25p then. 
No production house or TV station Ive ever encountered would want me to shoot 24p.

 

No you are not alone.

I mostly shoot 25/50p here, no one asked me to shoot 30p/24p, I do get occasional 60P request

[Adam Kuźniar]

3 hours ago, Mattias Burling said:

But Im not crying about it, because Im sure it will suite others very well. 

Come on Mattias, are we reading different posts or what because reading this thread I didn't get the impression that the lack of 24p is the end of the world. I did get the impression that it's silly that it's not there, that there's zero technical reasons why it's not there, that it's just Canon being " WE wANt TO PrOtect the CinemA linE " 

I, just like you, shoot in 25/50 because that's the EU standard, I don't think I've ever shot in 24 on my GH5. However if it didn't have that option, I'd be the first one to write "wtf panasonic why can you do 25fps but not literally one frame less?" Not because I actually need it, but because I feel like it's such a standard feature that it should be implemented.

[Mokara]

If the leaked spec sheets are correct, it doesn't do 1080p60 either, which is mind boggling if true. Apparently 60 fps at 720p only.

That has got to be a mistake.

[Michael Steiner]

31 minutes ago, Adam Kuźniar said:

Come on Mattias, are we reading different posts or what because reading this thread I didn't get the impression that the lack of 24p is the end of the world. I did get the impression that it's silly that it's not there, that there's zero technical reasons why it's not there, that it's just Canon being " WE wANt TO PrOtect the CinemA linE " 

I, just like you, shoot in 25/50 because that's the EU standard, I don't think I've ever shot in 24 on my GH5. However if it didn't have that option, I'd be the first one to write "wtf panasonic why can you do 25fps but not literally one frame less?" Not because I actually need it, but because I feel like it's such a standard feature that it should be implemented.

Couldn't have said it better! 24p was in the 60D, 70D and 80D. Removing it now is just a silly and unnecessary move. While I also haven't shot in 24p for years lots of people do. And it would just be nice to have that option in this camera too. 

[Mokara]

36 minutes ago, Adam Kuźniar said:

Come on Mattias, are we reading different posts or what because reading this thread I didn't get the impression that the lack of 24p is the end of the world. I did get the impression that it's silly that it's not there, that there's zero technical reasons why it's not there, that it's just Canon being " WE wANt TO PrOtect the CinemA linE " 

I, just like you, shoot in 25/50 because that's the EU standard, I don't think I've ever shot in 24 on my GH5. However if it didn't have that option, I'd be the first one to write "wtf panasonic why can you do 25fps but not literally one frame less?" Not because I actually need it, but because I feel like it's such a standard feature that it should be implemented.

24p is available in other cameras that use the Digic 8 processor, so it is almost certainly a license fee issue. They are just saving a few dollars IMO.

The R cameras (prosumer) does have 24p, but the latest Powershots (consumer) do not.

[Adam Kuźniar]

36 minutes ago, Mokara said:

license fee

Isn't DIGIC made by Canon? So who are they licensing it from? 

[Shell64]

How does 24p h264 require a license when you can encode it for free with FFMPEG, which is open source?

[Andrew Reid]

LOL. Where is the source of the h.264 specific frame rate licensing info for 24p? Or is it the usual forum user Canon plant conjecture?

[Avenger 2.0]

Maybe Canon helpdesk gets to many questions about what that 24p is and it confuses their users so they removed it for our convenience ?

[Marcio Kabke Pinheiro]

15 hours ago, Mattias Burling said:

I guess it's time to restart the hyperbolic pretend it's a pro video camera only to rip on it machine again. But honestly, it's getting old.

BTW, I just installed a new washing machine yesterday. It didn't even have 4K via HDMI.. it's like 1998 all over again.

At least I hope the machine drum rotates in a 180 degree shutter speed.

[Shell64]

Hey, at least it won’t overheat because it’s water-cooled!  Toshiba figures out this problem, why can’t Sony?

 

[Andrew Reid]

I reckon the 30p lovers should all go and tell Hollywood and Netflix to switch.

I don't care if the camera is aimed at me or not, only Canon's marketing people do.

The founding principals of the cinema look include 24p and it's as important as dynamic range, RAW, etc., 25p looks similar but 24p is the standard and you can't mix the two on one timeline.

Canon know this which is why it's another Protect the Cinema EOS margins cripple.

Which is a shame because the new sensor technology looks good, and has finally caught up to the readout speed of others. 

If you are calling yourself a filmmaker but prefer to shoot 30p over 24p you should be a bit embarrassed.

25p is another matter, that has the same cinematic feel to 24p.

I shoot 25p quite a lot because I live in a PAL region.

I am glad it has 25p.

But I'm not happy with the 24p bullshit spreading on this forum and screen Hz judder-stutter-bullshit. Stop doing it. Tiresome to read.

[Shell64]

It’s even worse in America. We have NTSC versions so we won’t be getting 25fps. Even if you could switch it to PAL mode, it may not play nice as 23.976 or 29.97fps are what places like broadcast stations here expect. 

[Andrew Reid]

Exactly. Perhaps there’s literally only 30p on the US model, then it becomes literally not worth using and those labouring under the impression that it’ll still look cinematic are wrong!

[Oliver Daniel]

Haha, I only use 25p or frame rates conformed to 25p. 

This model looks like a useful little gadget for 25p users BUT:

1. Will we be able to use DPAF in 4k?

2. Does 4k have a crippled bitrate? 

If Canon delivers on the above 2 points, and the price is right - this could be a helpful addition for my upcoming social media and personal stuff. 

[Shell64]

Regions are weird. America has no-time limit goodies but Britain has cinematic 25p as standard. 

[Emanuel]

Britain is Europe! Long life to Remainers! (E : -)

[mercer]

I really don’t care what frame rates people shoot on but saying that 24p is only for cinema wannabes is so silly and goes against the entire point of the digital revolution in the first place. Cinema wannabes could easily say that people who shoot in 30p should just buy a camcorder because they obviously do not care at all about visuals so why both using an ILC.

The reason for Canon omitting 24p from these cameras is way worse than protecting their cinema cameras... it is a sign that they are protecting their R line and what they don’t understand is that they’re taking away inexpensive options for young and poorer people to have access to an affordable 4K/1080p narrative tool.

If they don’t have an ecosystem for these filmmakers to upgrade, why would they ever buy an R camera or a C series camera.

[Mokara]

8 hours ago, Adam Kuźniar said:

Isn't DIGIC made by Canon? So who are they licensing it from? 

H.264 is the codec used. It does not belong to Canon. The Digic processor does the encoding in hardware, but it still requires a license from MPEG-LA in order to use the codec. The exact nature of the license and how much you pay depends on what you use it for and how you use it. The license fee can range from free all the way up to five million dollars, which is NOT chump change if you have a product operating on close margins.

2 minutes ago, mercer said:

I really don’t care what frame rates people shoot on but saying that 24p is only for cinema wannabes is so silly and goes against the entire point of the digital revolution in the first place. Cinema wannabes could easily say that people who shoot in 30p should just buy a camcorder because they obviously do not care at all about visuals so why both using an ILC.

The reason for Canon omitting 24p from these cameras is way worse than protecting their cinema cameras... it is a sign that they are protecting their R line and what they don’t understand is that they’re taking away inexpensive options for young and poorer people to have access to an affordable 4K/1080p narrative tool.

If they don’t have an ecosystem for these filmmakers to upgrade, why would they ever buy an R camera or a C series camera.

I am willing to bet my last dollar that the vast majority of people who buy this camera are not going to be shooting in 24p irrespective of whether it is there or not. Canon have apparently reached the same conclusion. Remember, unlike speculation here, they have access to market research which will tell them how these consumer products are actually being used, and they will make their decisions on that basis. Don't forget that they have been making consumer digital video products for over a decade, and they know what people are shooting with those products. Including 24p is going to cost money, both in development resources and likely in license fees. It probably requires additional logic on the circuit board as well. So if very few people are using that mode and they are operating on small margins, it makes sense to cut things like this out of the specs and save a few dollars per camera, which can be quite significant when it comes to net margins in a consumer product.