mercer Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 So when they released the M100 or the GX7 Mark ii or even the a1200 years ago, they were willing to pay these millions in licensing fees for 24p and obviously all a1200 users were no budget indie filmmakers requiring 24p per Canon’s market research. Now I am kind of a Canon fanboy but this is just ridiculous now and explaining away the desire for 30p is just silly. And I think you’re wrong, people love the idea that they can shoot their home movies in a similar way the professional Hollywood films are shot... in fact, Canon used that as a marketing tool for years. Thomas Hill 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Members BTM_Pix Posted August 20, 2019 Super Members Share Posted August 20, 2019 Just as an FYI in terms of costs, these are the license fees for products incorporating AVC/H.264 https://www.mpegla.com/programs/avc-h-264/license-agreement/ This is from their FAQs Q: Do the same licensing terms apply to all profiles of the AVC/H.264 Standard? A: Yes, the same terms apply whether one or more profiles is used. * There is an interesting quirk involved in the licensing but I'm not going to aid and abet the transition of EOSHD into the internet's pre-eminent camera and patent law fusion forum so you can research that one yourselves Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newfoundmass Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 Why is Canon even releasing EOS M cameras at this point? What was the last lens they released for it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lars Steenhoff Posted August 20, 2019 Author Share Posted August 20, 2019 Ok now that the full specs are out here is answer to my question about how the "4k" is achieved 2840x2160 I don't know in what world this is 4k? clearly its not even 3k https://t.co/Zj5WGS0KMg?amp=1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shell64 Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 This is the 2019 equivalent of canon’s “Full HD” line skipping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HockeyFan12 Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 16 minutes ago, Lars Steenhoff said: Ok now that the full specs are out here is answer to my question about how the "4k" is achieved 2840x2160 I don't know in what world this is 4k? clearly its not even 3k https://t.co/Zj5WGS0KMg?amp=1 I'm guessing that's a typo, a 2 instead of a 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinegain Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 The Olympus E-M1 at launch only did 30p. You know what they did years later? Firmware update release notes: Quote Image quality mode for movies were changed. Frame rates 24p (23.98p)/25p were added. That's a camera that had already long been sold by then. You really think they paid 5 million bucks after the fact just to please some beggars? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shell64 Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 All it is is literally a sensor readout change to shoot 24fps. The codec used stays IDENTICAL otherwise. Why could licensing be the reason then? The canon t2i has 24fps. Did canon have to pay 5 million bucks? If so, why did they do so on their cheap plastic dslr?! Someone tell me the logic here lol Cinegain 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yurolov Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 People forget that they did this on a quote unquote cinema camera when they released the xc10. In the PAL variant you couldn't get 24p. You were locked into 25p. That camera was marketed as a sort of B camera to the c300 which could do 24p. Can someone please tell me the rationale for that?? This sort of segmentation is unforgivable to me in a time when they are losing market share to phones at a rapid rate. My only guess is that they might think that most consumers could care less about 24p. And they may be right. I did a Europe tour recently and went to all the big tourist spots across a lot of countires. 95 percent of people used phones. Of the people who had DSLR/mirrorless cameras, 80 percent were Canon, 15 percent were Nikon and the remaining 5 percent was a combination of Sony, Fuji and Olympus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Hill Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 2 hours ago, Yurolov said: I did a Europe tour recently and went to all the big tourist spots across a lot of countires. 95 percent of people used phones. Of the people who had DSLR/mirrorless cameras, 80 percent were Canon, 15 percent were Nikon and the remaining 5 percent was a combination of Sony, Fuji and Olympus. No Pentax? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mako Sports Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 2 hours ago, Shell64 said: All it is is literally a sensor readout change to shoot 24fps. The codec used stays IDENTICAL otherwise. Why could licensing be the reason then? The canon t2i has 24fps. Did canon have to pay 5 million bucks? If so, why did they do so on their cheap plastic dslr?! Someone tell me the logic here lol It just the typical Canon Apologist Bullshit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newfoundmass Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 46 minutes ago, Mako Sports said: It just the typical Canon Apologist Bullshit I've seen a lot of Canon apologists but this 24p stuff might take the cake. Mako Sports 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkabi Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 3 hours ago, Yurolov said: I did a Europe tour recently and went to all the big tourist spots across a lot of countires. 95 percent of people used phones. Of the people who had DSLR/mirrorless cameras, 80 percent were Canon, 15 percent were Nikon and the remaining 5 percent was a combination of Sony, Fuji and Olympus. If we are using anecdotal evidence here... I went to Center Island (here in Toronto) about 2 weeks ago... and I saw zero Canon or Nikon, but I did see 2 Sony a7 cameras and 1 olympus... about 1 month ago when I visited Niagara Falls, Ontario with the family.... I saw 2 Canons, 1 Nikon and 1 Fuji.... with those kind of evidences, I predict that given that these are high traffic tourist areas, people are dumping their Canons/Nikons/Fujis for Sonys and olympus camera within a 2 week period. Mako Sports 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avenger 2.0 Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 7 hours ago, newfoundmass said: Why is Canon even releasing EOS M cameras at this point? What was the last lens they released for it? The razer sharp EF-M 32mm f1.4 beginning of this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Kuźniar Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 1 hour ago, Avenger 2.0 said: The razer sharp EF-M 32mm f1.4 beginning of this year. oh wow that changes everything Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ac6000cw Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 20 hours ago, Shell64 said: How does 24p h264 require a license when you can encode it for free with FFMPEG, which is open source? I don't think MPEG LA (the licensing company) have ever seriously 'gone after' open-source/freeware codec producers - what's the point in trying to extract money from people who (as they are giving away just a specific *implementation* of the technology) basically don't have any? Also open-source encourages the take-up of the technology, which will ultimately benefit the patent holders that MPEG LA represent - quite a lot of those FFMPEG encoded files will be played on devices and software that are licensed. It's the sellers of products including that technology who need the license i.e. if I used FFMPEG H264 in a product I was selling, it's me that needs a license from MPEG LA and would have to pay a per-product shipped license fee. In any event, the license fees are not very high, there are some MPEG and HEVC costs here - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MPEG_LA (for MPEG-2 it's $2 per unit, for HEVC it's $0.20 per unit). Also there are sometimes 'royalty caps' for big users, so you don't pay more than a fixed amount per year irrespective of volume. (Incidentally, the biggest single contributor of patents to the MPEG-4/H.264 portfolio is Panasonic...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avenger 2.0 Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 2 hours ago, Adam Kuźniar said: oh wow that changes everything Actually it does, bought the M50 just for this lens. I chalange you to find another lens for this price that is this sharp at f/1.4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lars Steenhoff Posted August 21, 2019 Author Share Posted August 21, 2019 10 hours ago, HockeyFan12 said: I'm guessing that's a typo, a 2 instead of a 3. Could be, did not think about that. Ok I will wait for the canon announcement before any conclusions. I do want canon to make a nice 4k camera, because the autofocus is so good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shell64 Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 8 hours ago, newfoundmass said: I've seen a lot of Canon apologists but this 24p stuff might take the cake. “I just don’t need it.” Then buy a cheap camera that doesn’t have those features and save a bunch! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Video Hummus Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 4 hours ago, Lars Steenhoff said: I do want canon to make a nice 4k camera, because the autofocus is so good. It’s called the C200. If it’s too expensive or too big then Canon doesn’t offer what you need. EOS R has 1.7x crop in 4K. If that doesn’t work for you then Canon doesn’t offer what you need. Its pretty simple. We can debate about 24p all day until the last breath out of our mouths are “No 24p” (this would make a hilarious comedy short film about canon btw ?) I really don’t care why 24p is not there or why there is a 1.7x crop on the EOS R in 4K. They are there so I move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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