Canon EOS M6 Mark II

[Brian Williams]

On 8/19/2019 at 11:52 PM, Mattias Burling said:

I still don't get why this happen. As soon as a company, be it Canon or anyone else releases a product not aimed at "me".. the hole forum goes apeshit.
Are we really that bored or do we honestly believe that we are the only person left alive and that everything being made must be just for us and never for others.. Its just so weird to be upset imo. Just buy the camera that IS made for you instead of being upset that one never intended for you isn't.

I don't think omitting 24p means they are pivoting this camera from one audience to a different audience- and I am SURE they would love the the "24p audience" to buy this camera.

This isn't like Fuji putting IBIS in an X-H1 but not in an X-T3, or another company not making their camera weather sealed bc its geared towards soccer moms.

This is one little setting that was left out of the UI, for god knows what reason, but I think potential customers have a right to be annoyed by it, especially considering Canon has a history of stifling their own innovation and limiting cameras in terms of features. Its annoying! Maybe it is a sensor issue, but history shows that it wouldn't be surprising if its just some douchebag exec at Canon saying that "market research shows that..."

Also on a side note, I work at NBC here in the states, and all the footage that we get in from the shows all comes to us at 23.98, nothing is shot at 29.97, even though we transcode and export to 29.97. And yes, while it took a while to happen, as all the networks switch over to streaming services (NBC in 2020!) everything is 4k going forward.

2 hours ago, Video Hummus said:

I really don’t care why 24p is not there or why there is a 1.7x crop on the EOS R in 4K. They are there so I move on.

And the forum grows silent as others follow suit. Should we talk about the weather?

[HockeyFan12]

6 hours ago, Lars Steenhoff said:

Could be, did not think about that. 

Ok I will wait for the canon announcement before any conclusions.

I do want canon to make a nice 4k camera, because the autofocus is so good.

I wouldn't be surprised if the 4k were upsampled, I'm just guessing that particular figure is a typo. There appear to be other typos in the leaked document.

That would be nice, though. I guess I'm a "Canon apologist" to the extent that I think they aren't trying to spite anyone by withholding anything but simply don't care about the market this forum represents enough to bother catering to it.

While segmentation is surely a factor in deciding feature sets, I doubt these big conspiracies hold much truth beyond that. We aren't that important. Most conspiracy theories flatter the purported victims by making them out to be willful adversaries, equals. Not so, imo. We're more likely collateral damage. The licensing fees argument doesn't make much sense to me, but it makes more sense to me than Canon hating specific users enough to spite them or even to send them upmarket to a cinema line with far lower profit margins.

But DPAF is kind of awesome. I like Canon's ergonomics and image. So it's frustrating for sure. I am part of the market being ignored. But no surprise, I'm posting here. And I would have considered replacing my Digital Rebel XT if this camera had log or HLG and 4k/24p. Maybe next generation.

[Avenger 2.0]

19 minutes ago, HockeyFan12 said:

I wouldn't be surprised if the 4k were upsampled

That is certainly possible. How would we know? I guess we can kind of compare crop canon 4k with new uncropped 4k. Or maybe the 4k will be as soft as 1080p was, that was also upsampled.

[Shell64]

1 hour ago, Avenger 2.0 said:

That is certainly possible. How would we know? I guess we can kind of compare crop canon 4k with new uncropped 4k. Or maybe the 4k will be as soft as 1080p was, that was also upsampled.

Could be true. And remember the 1:1 1080 on canons is very sharp. 4K might be the same; 1:1 4K crop is sharp, full sensor is soft. 

[HockeyFan12]

2 hours ago, Avenger 2.0 said:

That is certainly possible. How would we know? I guess we can kind of compare crop canon 4k with new uncropped 4k. Or maybe the 4k will be as soft as 1080p was, that was also upsampled.

Yeah I think whether it is or not, Dpreview's resolution tests will reveal what matters and we can compare it against the SL3 etc.

The 1:1 4k from the SL3 etc. actually looks good to me... just a lot of skew and a huge crop and no log profile, so.... maybe not so good after all.

[kaylee]

yooo anyone got a price on the 90D yet?

p.s. LETS HACK THAT B*ITCH

[Dunjoye]

1 hour ago, kaylee said:

yooo anyone got a price on the 90D yet?

p.s. LETS HACK THAT B*ITCH

Is there still an appeal for ML hacking? I just feel like alot of cameras  have caught up. Although no dslr is shooting raw at the moment but the margin in trade off is getting shorter.

Not sure what people are really looking for in canon cameras these days. There message as been clear from day. You either shoot on the C line for video or DSLR for pics 

[kaylee]

5 hours ago, Dunjoye said:

Is there still an appeal for ML hacking?

yes

again: any 90D price info yet?

[Thomas Hill]

3 hours ago, kaylee said:

yes

again: any 90D price info yet?

One of the rumor sites had it at $1399

[Avenger 2.0]

40 minutes ago, Thomas Hill said:

One of the rumor sites had it at $1399

That would even be more expensive then the 80D as it was $1199 / €1299. 

[Andrew Reid]

3 hours ago, Thomas Hill said:

One of the rumor sites had it at $1399

?

[PolarStarArts]

On 8/22/2019 at 3:21 AM, Thomas Hill said:

One of the rumor sites had it at $1399

Why would anyone want to pay $1399 for a camera that lacks 24p? I wouldn't, not when I can buy something like a Panasonic G9 body for $1599 and a 14-140mm lens for another $650 and get not only 4K60p, but 24p as well? And get superior image quality, even though the G9 has only a 20MP M43 sensor?

[Shell64]

On 8/21/2019 at 7:06 PM, Dunjoye said:

Is there still an appeal for ML hacking? I just feel like alot of cameras  have caught up. Although no dslr is shooting raw at the moment but the margin in trade off is getting shorter.

Not sure what people are really looking for in canon cameras these days. There message as been clear from day. You either shoot on the C line for video or DSLR for pics 

Yes. Every dslr/dslm can shoot 10, 12, or 14 bit RAW video. Most companies simply disable it. I could be shooting 1080 or even 4K RAW on my Panasonic g7 if the would just enable it. 

[Avenger 2.0]

1 hour ago, PolarStarArts said:

Why would anyone want to pay $1399 for a camera that lacks 24p? I wouldn't, not when I can buy something like a Panasonic G9 body for $1599 and a 14-140mm lens for another $650 and get not only 4K60p, but 24p as well? And get superior image quality, even though the G9 has only a 20MP M43 sensor?

You wouldn't for video. Not sure I even would for just photography (single sd, no ibis). The only people they sold it to before are now all using phones an tablets for captureing their kids. Will not sell that great as 70D/80D once did for sure.

[Andrew Reid]

Canon are running out of ways to improve stills quality, so it's inevitable they'll come back to video users sooner rather than later...

Especially when the complacency they have relied on over the years in the form of being in the lead on sales, vanishes.

It's the cynicism of it all that pisses me off the most.

Putting USB C on but at 2.0 speeds... To save mere fractions of a cent development costs on $1000+ cameras

Removing 24p

Disabling Dual Pixel AF in 4K whenever they feel like it, same with Canon LOG

Waiting 4 years to get on par with Sony's RX100 technology with the high-end compact cameras

Using very old, dated sensor tech and chipsets

I couldn't care less about the EOS M6 Mark II as we have far better cameras from Fuji and Panasonic for less money. (Although it would have been nice to have made the most of Canon's colour and EOS M mount's adaptability to c-mount in various video-related ways).

Canon have lost a LOT of customer goodwill.

[Video Hummus]

3 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Canon have lost a LOT of customer goodwill.

Maybe.

They know as soon as they release a have decent camera all will be forgiven and most forgotten. The bar is pretty low. 4K, no crop FF DPAF all modes, 24p.

They can do it. They just don’t want to.

So they will sell old tech with new name because it will sell, maybe not well, but it will. 

[Andrew Reid]

They are on a glide-path to exiting the consumer camera market completely and exploring other avenues.

And it shows!

[Mako Sports]

11 hours ago, PolarStarArts said:

Why would anyone want to pay $1399 for a camera that lacks 24p? I wouldn't, not when I can buy something like a Panasonic G9 body for $1599 and a 14-140mm lens for another $650 and get not only 4K60p, but 24p as well? And get superior image quality, even though the G9 has only a 20MP M43 sensor?

Lets not forget the 6dmkii sold for $2000 at launch and There were video people that STILL bought that thing. 

Basically it means that anything with the Canon name on it will sell regardless of the feature set and price.

[PolarStarArts]

9 hours ago, Video Hummus said:

Maybe.

They know as soon as they release a have decent camera all will be forgiven and most forgotten. The bar is pretty low. 4K, no crop FF DPAF all modes, 24p.

They can do it. They just don’t want to.

So they will sell old tech with new name because it will sell, maybe not well, but it will. 

And it could all be as simple as a firmware update, as all the features are already baked in and the firmware simply permits or denies access to the features in question. If this wasn't so, people wouldn't be using Magic Lantern to hack their EOS M-series cameras and get features and capabilities that weren't present in the stock camera.

On 8/20/2019 at 10:53 AM, Andrew Reid said:

Exactly. Perhaps there’s literally only 30p on the US model, then it becomes literally not worth using and those labouring under the impression that it’ll still look cinematic are wrong!

I've always found 30p to be a bit of an odd mode, because it has a slightly 'live-TV' look to it (with 60i/p looking like soap-opera live). Not the slightest bit cinematic in appearance.

 

[nigelbb]

On 8/20/2019 at 12:18 AM, HockeyFan12 said:

That's a fair answer, and as regards these cameras, I basically agree. This forum caters to a relatively small group of consumers who want to shoot cinematic video without paying many thousands of dollars. That market is big enough that the GH5S and other cameras are marketed specifically (or at least primarily) toward it, but this camera isn't. It doesn't need to shoot 24p. It would be really nice if it did, but it doesn't have to.

On the other hand, every Netflix series I can think of (not that they're particularly well shot) is shot at 24p for consumption on 60hz displays. Do you think the DPs here are objectively wrong to do that? Do you think they're stylistically wrong? 

Would anyone notice if they shot at 25p?