Panasonic S1H review / hands-on - a true 6K full frame cinema camera

[thephoenix]

12 minutes ago, AaronChicago said:

Looks like it was Atlas Orion anamorphics.

for a few shots, most of it is non anamorphic  lense

[zerocool22]

15 minutes ago, AaronChicago said:

Looks like it was Atlas Orion anamorphics.

Yeah not sure what the best investment is a new Camera or new lens. The atlas orions run 1K cheaper if you still decide to buy one in september though. But I will need to spread the cost over several years, so not sure if its going to be worth it. 

[Adam Kuźniar]

8 hours ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

Do people use manual focus when the screen is flipped forward? 

i vlog on the gh5 in manual focus all the time and it's super easy to do with screen flipped forward 

[helium]

For anyone not persuaded 4K and HD are only for snowflakes, wusses and Steve Yedlin, the S1 is going for $2200 with vlog included.

[Trankilstef]

I found this video quite interesting. Not a proper review, more of a user feedback :

 

 

[ade towell]

 

[Papiskokuji]

Specwise it's a bit disappointing. I'm sure the image out of it is spectacular (like most of the cameras nowadays), the tilting screen is a great evolution, the evf and IBIS are topnotch : sure it's a great camera. But when I read Andrew's article, I can't help remembering his rant about those biased youtubers under Canon's influence, because they were flown under the sun of Hawai, etc.

Now I read about Andrew at Panasonic's headquarters, and all I can read is praise about the camera, not even a single remark/critic about anything, eventhough there should be a few, in my humble opinion. I fully understand that when you are invited somewhere, treated well, etc. You don't want to be rude and say bad things about the product you had the chance to shoot with before everybody, even more so when it's a good camera like the S1H seems to be.

But come on, no word on NO Full Frame 4K 60p (what would you have said if it had been Sony), codec and bitrate very good but not revolutionary (especially for the added resolution of 6K), no ND, no PDAF (why not, but suddenly AF is not important, it varies from camera to camera...?). I can't even tell the difference with the S1 (I'll have to check it) but the fact you can have manual controls in HFR. I understand your rants, it's good sometimes, it might even be productive if heard by the brands. What I don't like is that it's so variable and relative. You should make an article about Panasonic crippling the S1 not allowing manual controls in HFR. It's as puzzling as canon not giving 24p...

And finally, the price. It's very very expansive. A very few people will be able to afford it. 4 000$ is in the realm of a real cinema camera with proper ergonomics, ND filters... That's why I think, you could ask for a bit more from this camera. The Fuji X-T3 has almost the same offering, (in aps-c) with crops between framerates a lot more manageable. The codec's bitrates are even better. There's no IBIS, EVF and build quality not as good, but the price difference is huge. Well that's only my take on it

[Mark Romero 2]

3 hours ago, Adam Kuźniar said:

i vlog on the gh5 in manual focus all the time and it's super easy to do with screen flipped forward 

Good to know. 

11 hours ago, Video Hummus said:

If they are sitting in one spot, yes. Why would you use AF? Besides autofocus being able to see yourself in the screen helps with framing. AF won’t save your poorly framed vlogging.

I just can't imagine myself setting manual focus from behind the camera, then going to sit down in front, discovering focus is off, getting back up and adjusting focus, then sitting down and seeing if focus is spot on or not, then repeating until I get the focus right.

guess if I were in arm's reach of the lens that would be fine. though. 

5 hours ago, kye said:

Yes.  I saw a vlogger include it in a vlog once when there was a meetup of vloggers and they got someone else doing the focus trick in the background, so they explained it.

You put the camera in AF-S hold the camera up to your face, hold out your arm and flip your hand up (like you're indicating to stop a car) and do a single focus on the back of your hand.  Then set the camera to MF and it will keep the focus you set from this procedure.

The vloggers were all Sony people and they all laughed that they do this secretly to make sure they're kept in focus.  Because they're Sony users and don't have flip screens they can't see what they're shooting, so basically put on a wide angle lens and point it at themselves and over time learn what the composition is like.  They go MF because if you can't compose you don't know what you're pointing the camera at and you also don't know what's in focus and what isn't.

Sony FTW!!

Thanks!

Ok, so I am getting the impression this is important for vloggers.

[Andrew Reid]

45 minutes ago, Papiskokuji said:

Specwise it's a bit disappointing. I'm sure the image out of it is spectacular (like most of the cameras nowadays), the tilting screen is a great evolution, the evf and IBIS are topnotch : sure it's a great camera. But when I read Andrew's article, I can't help remembering his rant about those biased youtubers under Canon's influence, because they were flown under the sun of Hawai, etc.

Now I read about Andrew at Panasonic's headquarters, and all I can read is praise about the camera, not even a single remark/critic about anything, eventhough there should be a few, in my humble opinion. I fully understand that when you are invited somewhere, treated well, etc. You don't want to be rude and say bad things about the product you had the chance to shoot with before everybody, even more so when it's a good camera like the S1H seems to be.

Unless Panasonic's Headquarters is all of a sudden Studio 111 in Hamburg then you're wrong.

And although both places begin with an H, Hamburg is not Hawaii. It's a 2 hour train ride from Berlin where I am visiting my girlfriend.

The original plan was to go to L.A which would have pissed you off even more. But I chose to spend time with my girlfriend instead.

For me this was like visiting a camera shop, and I don't do that unless the camera is worth a visit.

If those specs are disappointing in your world you must be an insufferable fucking brat. Disappointing compared to what? Did a RED 8K handout land on your doorstep or something? Did your $4k go towards a stolen Alexa off the back of a van?

Some people have been reading EOSHD for longer than 5 minutes and actually realise how far I've gone out of my way to keep the PR influence over this blog as low as possible, and I'll point you to all those adverts I don't have.... Anywhere.

No sponsors, no paid ads, no content paid for and no shoots 'embellished' with Hawaiian scenery or Canon topless models.

But yeah, I'll take your word for it... The image is spectacular but the specs disappointing. The 5m dot EVF and 5 axis IBIS are top notch but the specs still disappointing. The tilting screen is a great evolution but still your disappointment overwhelms you. Maybe you are better off using that "real cinema camera instead", you know, the one with the "proper ergonomics", that shoots 6K full frame for $4000, with a built in ND, a 5 million dot EVF and IBIS.

?

[newfoundmass]

I don't understand how specs can be disappointing when there isn't a major camera company doing what the S1H can do in this price range?

It's fine if it's not for you, but to act like this isn't a major release that raises the bar is just crazy. 

Every other company will have to match or beat the Panasonic. 

[Mark Romero 2]

Just now, newfoundmass said:

I don't understand how specs can be disappointing when there isn't a major camera company doing what the S1H can do in this price range?

It's fine if it's not for you, but to act like this isn't a major release that raises the bar is just crazy. 

I agree!!!

Wish Sony had done something - anything - to improve video on their new releases today (a6600 and a6100) but sadly they didn't. 

Oh well... Maybe lots of people will sell their X-T3s to invest in an S1H and I can get a good deal on a used Fuji???

[zerocool22]

15 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Maybe you are better off using that "real cinema camera instead", you know, the one with the "proper ergonomics", that shoots 6K full frame for $4000, with a built in ND, a 5 million dot EVF and IBIS.

There are no cinema camera's with ibis though, prolly never will as you dont want a floating sensor on a cinema camera. 

[Trankilstef]

Prores Raw announced!! That was quick. 

Not so cool for Z6 owners though as the upgrade is free here ?

https://www.atomos.com/press-releases/atomos-panasonic-lumix

OK this is without a doubt my next camera. I'm going to sell my A7III, keep my Ninja V and voilà! 

[thephoenix]

31 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Unless Panasonic's Headquarters is all of a sudden Studio 111 in Hamburg then you're wrong.

And although both places begin with an H, Hamburg is not Hawaii. It's a 2 hour train ride from Berlin where I am visiting my girlfriend.

The original plan was to go to L.A which would have pissed you off even more. But I chose to spend time with my girlfriend instead.

For me this was like visiting a camera shop, and I don't do that unless the camera is worth a visit.

If those specs are disappointing in your world you must be an insufferable fucking brat. Disappointing compared to what? Did a RED 8K handout land on your doorstep or something? Did your $4k go towards a stolen Alexa off the back of a van?

Some people have been reading EOSHD for longer than 5 minutes and actually realise how far I've gone out of my way to keep the PR influence over this blog as low as possible, and I'll point you to all those adverts I don't have.... Anywhere.

No sponsors, no paid ads, no content paid for and no shoots 'embellished' with Hawaiian scenery or Canon topless models.

But yeah, I'll take your word for it... The image is spectacular but the specs disappointing. The 5m dot EVF and 5 axis IBIS are top notch but the specs still disappointing. The tilting screen is a great evolution but still your disappointment overwhelms you. Maybe you are better off using that "real cinema camera instead", you know, the one with the "proper ergonomics", that shoots 6K full frame for $4000, with a built in ND, a 5 million dot EVF and IBIS.

?

Well Maybe he was à bit harsh about the travel thing but i can only agree with him saying you lack objectivity when It comes to panasonic recent products.

Criticising canon for no 24p but no control of hfr is fine for you, not a single word about It. Nothing about the fact that it only goes 6k in one frame rate and to me it looks like more of an 4k+ camera. Same with the blue light issue, not a word. Well...

Same about the s1 saying image is the best you've seen.   King of the hill, well i find It real good but not that good, especially on the footage you showed.

I feel frustrated by your review i must admit and i guess he felt the same.

 

    

[LCKYNYC]

41 minutes ago, zerocool22 said:

There are no cinema camera's with ibis though, prolly never will as you dont want a floating sensor on a cinema camera. 

Man Andrew,

You have a hard job, I started on page one, here I am at the end just reading all of these comments like, Wow.. opinions can be a headache!

I shoot with gimbals and heavy cams and I shoot handheld with just IBIS and my A7S2, which I'm still on bc of smart color settings, better grain (esp output) than the A73 and FF lowlight. I could never get the handheld shots I have for brand work or 30 km days on foot shooting Docs without IBIS and small mirrorless FF cams. 

I used an S1 recently and I'm excited for the new gen of IBIS, 10bit FF cams. Looks like the S1H is it, (FF anamorphic options whoa) the A7s3 or whatever the Unicorn will be has a lot to live up to.

Thanks for a great site and perspective.

[Papiskokuji]

46 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Unless Panasonic's Headquarters is all of a sudden Studio 111 in Hamburg then you're wrong.

And although both places begin with an H, Hamburg is not Hawaii. It's a 2 hour train ride from Berlin where I am visiting my girlfriend.

The original plan was to go to L.A which would have pissed you off even more. But I chose to spend time with my girlfriend instead.

For me this was like visiting a camera shop, and I don't do that unless the camera is worth a visit.

If those specs are disappointing in your world you must be an insufferable fucking brat. Disappointing compared to what? Did a RED 8K handout land on your doorstep or something? Did your $4k go towards a stolen Alexa off the back of a van?

Some people have been reading EOSHD for longer than 5 minutes and actually realise how far I've gone out of my way to keep the PR influence over this blog as low as possible, and I'll point you to all those adverts I don't have.... Anywhere.

No sponsors, no paid ads, no content paid for and no shoots 'embellished' with Hawaiian scenery or Canon topless models.

But yeah, I'll take your word for it... The image is spectacular but the specs disappointing. The 5m dot EVF and 5 axis IBIS are top notch but the specs still disappointing. The tilting screen is a great evolution but still your disappointment overwhelms you. Maybe you are better off using that "real cinema camera instead", you know, the one with the "proper ergonomics", that shoots 6K full frame for $4000, with a built in ND, a 5 million dot EVF and IBIS.

?

Let's try to keep it constructive. I didn't mean to attack you and I've been reading your blog for years... Well first off, I don't give a shit about 6K, but full frame 60p 4k would have been nice (actually I don't care much about full frame filmmaking, it's just the crop in 60p that is unpractical in the field, don't you think ? Remember EOS R). And to me, all cameras are already where I want them to be. I'm happy with my BMPCC4K, my Fuji XT3, my canon 5D mk III ML RAW... but if I had to buy something new, it would have to make a real difference, something very innovative, especially at 4000$. I'd be glad to have a variable ND like the one in the FS5 and FS7 mkII or RAW or PRORES just like you ask so many times in your blogs for instance... Good AF for gimbal work would also be a plus. That's it.

I'd genuinely like to hear you about the crop in 60p and also the HFR crippled with the S1, or not.

[Trankilstef]

4 minutes ago, Papiskokuji said:

I'd be glad to have a variable ND like the one in the FS5 and FS7 mkII or RAW or PRORES just like you ask so many times in your blogs for instance...

RAW is a reality : https://www.atomos.com/press-releases/atomos-panasonic-lumix

[Thomas Hill]

1 hour ago, Papiskokuji said:

You should make an article about Panasonic crippling the S1 not allowing manual controls in HFR. It's as puzzling as canon not giving 24p...

Your complaint/comparison makes no sense. Not allowing manual control in HFR is reasonable market segmentation (possibly even a hardware limitation). REMOVING 24p is crippling cameras for an entire segment of the customer base. 

And I don't own anything by either of these brands.

 

[thephoenix]

1 minute ago, Thomas Hill said:

Your complaint/comparison makes no sense. Not allowing manual control in HFR is reasonable market segmentation

 

Seriously ? For a 4k camera clearly meant for pros 

You gotta be joking 

[Stab]

Well, I earned 4000 euro's yesterday. 

As great as the camera is, and praise Panasonic for that, for my type of work it doesn't seem to offer any major upgrade over the S1. 

I mainly shoot weddings, in 4k 50 fps, with the S1 which does a 1.5x crop in that mode. The S1H still has the crop and thus is pretty much the same thing for me. Except for the Dual Native ISO, but let's face it, the S1 is already very very good at ISO 6400 and I never ever needed to higher in my life till now. The photo capabillities are the same I hear.

So pretty much the only reason why I would like to upgrade is the OLPF, because I do see moiré here and there, especially on men's clothing during weddings. But that's a tough sell to me at the current pricepoint.

If you do shoot proper films / cinema / anamorphic, then yes, the S1H is a major upgrade over the S1. But for 'event filmmaking' in 4k, it's not that different.

Even the V-log in 24 fps 10-bit 422 is exactly the same right? Until raw is coming along.