Panasonic S1H review / hands-on - a true 6K full frame cinema camera

[Rinad Amir]

1 hour ago, Trankilstef said:

Prores Raw announced!! That was quick. 

Not so cool for Z6 owners though as the upgrade is free here ?

https://www.atomos.com/press-releases/atomos-panasonic-lumix

OK this is without a doubt my next camera. I'm going to sell my A7III, keep my Ninja V and voilà! 

?yah am in the same boat thinking to sell my 5S and move to this badboy 

Atomos and Panasonic announce 35mm full frame RAW video over HDMI from the Lumix S1H to Ninja V Atomos is excited to announce co-development with Panasonic of RAW over HDMI from the brand new Lumix S1H to the Atomos Ninja V 4K HDR monitor-recorder. The RAW update will be available free on the Ninja V when released by Panasonic. “We are very proud of continuing to develop new ground-breaking technology with a company of the calibre of Panasonic. We are both highly committed to the democratisation of filmmaking for creators, and the ability to transmit RAW over HDMI from the S1H to a Ninja V is a major leap forward in this endeavour.” Said Jeromy Young, Atomos CEO. As the world’s first full-frame mirrorless camera capable of 6K internal video, the Lumix S1H combines the quality of professional cinema-grade video cameras with the size and photo capability of a mirrorless, making it the perfect companion with the Ninja V. “The leading brand of external monitor-recorders is definitely Atomos. Both companies have a very good relationship and we have been providing 4:2:2 10bit HDMI output recording for the Lumix GH series for years. We are very proud to be developing RAW output via HDMI with Atomos for the S1H.” Said Panasonic at their launch event in LA. Added Young: “Our advancements in screen technology now allows creators to accurately monitor RAW video in real-time as it would be viewed in the home or cinema for perfect preservation of creative intent. Our pristine custom Atomos HDR screens are second to none in colour accuracy and representation of brightness from RAW signals. When combined, these advantages create a dream workflow for filmmakers.” The new Lumix S1H will be shown working with the Ninja V at the upcoming IBC show in Amsterdam from 13 September at the RAI Hall 11.D25, more information on the combination will be available during the show.

[Thomas Hill]

54 minutes ago, thephoenix said:

You gotta be joking 

How many Panasonic cameras have offered manual control in HFR? How many Canon cameras have offered 24p?

One is a common feature found even on many point and shoot cameras. The other is a bit newer and more unique.

 

[currensheldon]

I also like Panasonic's release strategy. Instead of boat loads of vloggers getting this camera and talking only about AF for vlogging (as Canon and Sony do), they gave it to a collection of actual filmmakers and DPs to make REAL films with and also to the most professional-minded Youtube channels, which are mostly all stores: ProAV, Wex Video, B&H, Adorama, and then some general favorites like the DPReview guys.

Maybe it's not best way to go for internet virility, but it's at least respectable. Rather than the Hawaii + Model + vlogger combo that Sony and Canon do time and time again and flood the internet with their "reviews"

 

 

[Vision]

5 minutes ago, currensheldon said:

I also like Panasonic's release strategy. Instead of boat loads of vloggers getting this camera and talking only about AF for vlogging (as Canon and Sony do), they gave it to a collection of actual filmmakers and DPs to make REAL films with and also to the most professional-minded Youtube channels, which are mostly all stores: ProAV, Wex Video, B&H, Adorama, and then some general favorites like the DPReview guys.

Maybe it's not best way to go for internet virility, but it's at least respectable. Rather than the Hawaii + Model + vlogger combo that Sony and Canon do time and time again and flood the internet with their "reviews"

 

 

Dp Review done great job especially Jordan? he went out to get some eggs and never came back!

[Cliff Totten]

17 hours ago, deezid said:

They didn't, still the same issue. Whenever you see anything blue and saturated, switch to HLG.

Oh wonderful!  Look like the S1H VLog has the same problem that the S1 has...smashed blue channel. Even the B&H promo video for the S1H has riddles everywhere with severely clipped blue colors. It's a complete disaster!

 

 

[1Ale82]

2 hours ago, Trankilstef said:

RAW is a reality : https://www.atomos.com/press-releases/atomos-panasonic-lumix

Would it be Prores RAW or other raw format?

[William Koehler]

On 8/27/2019 at 2:16 PM, Andrew Reid said:

Just make it internal and be done with it.

But can the SD cards handle the 6K Prores RAW data rate at the frame rate of your choice?

Also, I wouldn't expect to see Prores RAW on any camera (Nikon) or third party recorder (Atomos) until after the two Apple petitions to the US Patent Office about REDs' RAW patent legitimacy are resolved.

[Andrew Reid]

8 minutes ago, William Koehler said:

But can the SD cards handle the 6K Prores RAW data rate at the frame rate of your choice?

Well I was recording 6K RAW to one today on my Pocket 6K.

UHS-II is pretty nippy.

And with XQD / CFast it's pretty much a given... There is no need for an external brick, wobbly cable or 2.5" SSD in 2019.

What the fuck they are doing bothering with sending RAW over HDMI when they have a high-speed USB C connector is beyond me....

Panasonic and Nikon seem to really want to sell a boat load of Atomos recorders for Jeromy! Good deal for him! But is it for us?

Big bulky battery, expensive screen, dated media, dated connector and all this trouble for something which should already be internal.

Anyway, what matters is if it's real RAW, how the image compares to 10bit 422 internal and whether the workflow holds up...

Otherwise, may as well sell the Pocket 6K, get rid of the Z6, sell the Atomos Ninja V, and shoot with the S1H internal or an X-T30 if you are feeling more thrifty.

[forofilms]

2 hours ago, Papiskokuji said:

Let's try to keep it constructive. I didn't mean to attack you and I've been reading your blog for years... Well first off, I don't give a shit about 6K, but full frame 60p 4k would have been nice (actually I don't care much about full frame filmmaking, it's just the crop in 60p that is unpractical in the field, don't you think ? Remember EOS R). And to me, all cameras are already where I want them to be. I'm happy with my BMPCC4K, my Fuji XT3, my canon 5D mk III ML RAW... but if I had to buy something new, it would have to make a real difference, something very innovative, especially at 4000$. I'd be glad to have a variable ND like the one in the FS5 and FS7 mkII or RAW or PRORES just like you ask so many times in your blogs for instance... Good AF for gimbal work would also be a plus. That's it.

I'd genuinely like to hear you about the crop in 60p and also the HFR crippled with the S1, or not.

Agreed. Crop in 60p was a real bummer for me. Would have also like to see higher bit rates/pro res. 

[Vision]

Anyone know if S1H comes with VLoG installed ?  I freaking hate to wait for physical copy key

Also hows fan noise like?

[Cliff Totten]

46 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Well I was recording 6K RAW to one today on my Pocket 6K.

UHS-II is pretty nippy.

And with XQD / CFast it's pretty much a given... There is no need for an external brick, wobbly cable or 2.5" SSD in 2019.

What the fuck they are doing bothering with sending RAW over HDMI when they have a high-speed USB C connector is beyond me....

Panasonic and Nikon seem to really want to sell a boat load of Atomos recorders for Jeromy! Good deal for him! But is it for us?

Big bulky battery, expensive screen, dated media, dated connector and all this trouble for something which should already be internal.

Anyway, what matters is if it's real RAW, how the image compares to 10bit 422 internal and whether the workflow holds up...

Otherwise, may as well sell the Pocket 6K, get rid of the Z6, sell the Atomos Ninja V, and shoot with the S1H internal or an X-T30 if you are feeling more thrifty.

This all hinges on weather Apple can shoot down RED's internal raw patent. Even Sony had to surrender on the F5, F55 and FS7 as they legally HAD to make an "external" Sony box to do their compressed raw format. I mean, Sony has already explored this RED patent from a legal perspective.

BlackMagic's "raw" is actually deBayered and compressed. So is it "really" raw? Seemingly not enough for RED to legally trap BlackMagic.??

Unless Nikon, Sony and Panasonic want to go the "deBayered raw" road and compress the sensor data and record it in-camera that way???

I dunno,...I'm sure camera companies just want to output plain raw and not worry about ANY law suits from RED as I have to think that RED will "try" to go after BlackMagic in court.

I'm sure Atomos' pitch to Panny, Nikon and Sony is;  "Don't risk compressed raw internally, it's not worth the legal danger,...just let Atomos do that for you and you will be perfectly safe"

I'm certain that Atomos is rooting AGAINST their buddies at Apple and hope they FAIL at shooting down RED's pattent. Atomos is RELYING on RED's patent to hold up in court.

CT

[Video Hummus]

5 hours ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

just can't imagine myself setting manual focus from behind the camera, then going to sit down in front, discovering focus is off, getting back up and adjusting focus, then sitting down and seeing if focus is spot on or not, then repeating until I get the focus right.

I’d use the WiFi app on available from Panasonic for my camera and just tap to focus. 

[docmoore]

2 hours ago, Stab said:

I mainly shoot weddings, in 4k 50 fps, with the S1 which does a 1.5x crop in that mode. The S1H still has the crop and thus is pretty much the same thing for me. Except for the Dual Native ISO, but let's face it, the S1 is already very very good at ISO 6400 and I never ever needed to higher in my life till now. The photo capabillities are the same I hear.

So pretty much the only reason why I would like to upgrade is the OLPF, because I do see moiré here and there, especially on men's clothing during weddings. But that's a tough sell to me at the current pricepoint.

If you do shoot proper films / cinema / anamorphic, then yes, the S1H is a major upgrade over the S1. But for 'event filmmaking' in 4k, it's not that different.

Even the V-log in 24 fps 10-bit 422 is exactly the same right? Until raw is coming along.

No time limit and the ability to write a backup to the dual SD cards seems to be an advantage that might save you at least some embarrassment 

if you have a fail at a wedding. I hear that retakes are not that common for those events.

1 hour ago, Andrew Reid said:

... they have a high-speed USB C connector is beyond me....

 

 

And it is so easy on the P6K ... both for recording and then uploading to my computer.

2 hours of 5.7K 24p to a 2Tb T5 SSD ... which costs $370 these days ... 

[Trankilstef]

1 hour ago, 1Ale82 said:

Would it be Prores RAW or other raw format?

No info yet. More to be revealed in 3 weeks at IBC. They didn't use the "Prores" word so maybe it's another Raw format. 

[newfoundmass]

I'd prefer SSD recording over Cfast and XQD personally. It's more affordable and has multiple uses for me, whereas cards don't. Once the prices drop I'm sure I'll feel differently. 

I wish Panasonic had unlocked recording to an SSD personally. 

[Video Hummus]

1 minute ago, newfoundmass said:

I'd prefer SSD recording over Cfast and XQD personally. It's more affordable and has multiple uses for me, whereas cards don't. Once the prices drop I'm sure I'll feel differently. 

I wish Panasonic had unlocked recording to an SSD personally. 

Yup.

I think it’s a great product from Panasonic. I was just hoping for workflow features like internal ProRes or USB-C recording and 4K 60p without a crop. Also, don’t forget that Panasonic is one of the few camera companies that actually delivers meaningful firmware updates.

 

[newfoundmass]

The crop in 4K doesn't bother me that much because there's probably a legitimate reason for it since they're doing full frame 6K. Unless there's some reason I'm missing. 

ProRes is also not something I was expecting. Besides the costs of licensing it, I don't know that your Canon, Sony, Panasonic, etc. want to give Apple control over such an important aspect of their cameras (codec.) It would be nice as a feature though for those that want it, of course. 

The ability to record to an external SSD drive would've been wonderful though. The ability to record an entire day of lectures without needing to change cards multiple times would've been a game changer for me. 

[Parker]

23 minutes ago, newfoundmass said:

The crop in 4K doesn't bother me that much because there's probably a legitimate reason for it since they're doing full frame 6K. Unless there's some reason I'm missing. 

ProRes is also not something I was expecting. Besides the costs of licensing it, I don't know that your Canon, Sony, Panasonic, etc. want to give Apple control over such an important aspect of their cameras (codec.) It would be nice as a feature though for those that want it, of course. 

The ability to record to an external SSD drive would've been wonderful though. The ability to record an entire day of lectures without needing to change cards multiple times would've been a game changer for me. 

Using 256 GB dual cards set to fill up one card and then the other would give you 500+ GBs of storage which would be ample for a whole day's worth, especially if you used the HEVC codecs, although I do agree, external USB-c recording would have been sweet 

[newfoundmass]

2 minutes ago, Parker said:

Using 256 GB dual cards set to fill up one card and then the other would give you 500+ GBs of storage which would be ample for a whole day's worth, especially if you used the HEVC codecs, although I do agree, external USB-c recording would have been sweet 

On paid jobs I use both slots to record things just in case I have a card failure. It hasn't happened yet, thankfully, but I'm terrified that the day I don't do it will be the day it happens! 

[kye]

5 hours ago, Stab said:

So pretty much the only reason why I would like to upgrade is the OLPF, because I do see moiré here and there, especially on men's clothing during weddings. But that's a tough sell to me at the current pricepoint.

Surely there is an OLPF filter with filter threads that you can mount to the front of your lenses and would do the same job?

I'm not familiar with what filters are around, but I'd imagine this would solve your moire problem on your S1...