Panasonic S1H review / hands-on - a true 6K full frame cinema camera

[Andrew Reid]

9 minutes ago, nathlas said:

On my opinion indy cinematographers would prefer buy BMPCC6K with 35% less money  and have internal Braw , save the money by avoiding buy new lenses(L mount), would  save the money for external recorder (who wants to use that anyway?) and having lack only of Ibis and still shooting capability.

 

BM "destroyed" all potentional caesars with one move.

I think you might be forgetting about the indy cinematographers who want full frame, an EVF, a more adaptable lens mount and steady handheld footage

[AaronChicago]

5 hours ago, zerocool22 said:

I would be only buying the 65mm I think, which one did you prefer? Do you think its worth owning these?

I’ve used the 40 and 65. I found myself using the 40mm 80% of the time. It’s the sweet spot for super 35 cameras IMO. Owning one would be worth it if you use it more than a spherical lens. I’ve just stuck to renting since i only use anamorphic probably 1 out of every 5 shoots.

[nathlas]

18 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

I think you might be forgetting about the indy cinematographers who want full frame, an EVF, a more adaptable lens mount and steady handheld footage

EVF could be a addon ( like the external recorder) but on many occasions could someone work without one (but not without the ext.recorder)

FF vs S35 is a comparison that would be very interesting WHEN prores RAW will be available.

L mount ( and RF mount) are very promising , I too would love to go there in the future. But now L lenses are not the usual glasses among us. EF lenses still rule.

Stabilisation is something that I too noticed that is a major difference.

 

Price chasm remains HUGE.

[Video Hummus]

45 minutes ago, nathlas said:

On my opinion indy cinematographers would prefer buy BMPCC6K with 35% less money  and have internal Braw , save the money by avoiding buy new lenses(L mount), would  save the money for external recorder (who wants to use that anyway?) and having lack only of Ibis and still shooting capability.

 

BM "destroyed" all potentional caesars with one move.

L-Mount is just getting started. The ecosystem is about to explode. 

[Andrew Reid]

36 minutes ago, nathlas said:

EVF could be a addon ( like the external recorder) but on many occasions could someone work without one (but not without the ext.recorder)

FF vs S35 is a comparison that would be very interesting WHEN prores RAW will be available.

L mount ( and RF mount) are very promising , I too would love to go there in the future. But now L lenses are not the usual glasses among us. EF lenses still rule.

Stabilisation is something that I too noticed that is a major difference.

 

Price chasm remains HUGE.

OK so here's the thing about add-on EVFs. They are all shit. They all need stupid wobbly cables, they all upset the centre of gravity and balance of a mirrorless camera, they all draw attention to you so people know you're shooting video in public and the Permit Krackens swoop, people get upset, etc. They all cost a lot of money and they all take big chunky 1990's style camcorder batteries or hook into an even bigger v-lock brick on your spidery stupid rig, and therefore they are horrible to use, horrible to pack away, horrible to assemble and slow to boot up. Then the battery dies, poof.

And all that just to see the fucking picture under sun.

I despise external recorders and external EVFs. None of the manufacturers have innovated. None of them have stepped out of their cinema bubble and come up with anything as elegant as a mirrorless camera's built in EVF.

FF vs S35 is not a comparison dependant on the codec. The aesthetic is different, the lenses are different, the lens circle is different. Discuss that, then we can discuss the codec separately because it is literally a separate topic!

EF lenses still rule, of course they do, so put one on L-mount with the Sigma adapter. Done.

Price chasm is not that big. In the UK for instance Pocket 6K is £2300 and S1H £3599.

But the Pocket 6K has no EVF so you need to add one for £1000

The Pocket 6K has no stabilisation so you need to add a cage and shoulder rig for £500.

Alas the Pocket 6K has a piddly little battery which the meter decides it has had enough off after 10 minutes with random shut downs, so add the v-lock for £300 minimum.

Final price? £4100.

Don't get me wrong I love what Blackmagic did with the image and codec. Just wish it was in a different camera not the shit one they put it in.

[docmoore]

Pretty much have relegated my P6K to tripod .... just too much to handhold 

but the image is stellar.

 

 

 

The S1H will be a run around camera ... ND filter but not much else. 

[Jimmy G]

1 hour ago, Andrew Reid said:

>snip<

I despise external recorders and external EVFs.

>snip<

 

+1 Sing it, brother! Full internal recording with optional external recording for those that feel they need those devices.

[Ollieburnz]

On 8/27/2019 at 3:21 PM, Salalah said:

The rolling shutter means 4k full frame isn't that useful unfortunately

I have the S1 and the rolling shutter is an issue when walking around. That said, the image stabilization is AMAZING (w/ kit lens). If you aren’t moving, you can hand hold and it literally looks like you are on a tripod. 

[TheRenaissanceMan]

Looks like a damn fine camera. Nice image, nice body, flexible mount, plenty of features. Shame about the blue clipping and rolling shutter. 

Problem for me is that this is knocking on used Ursa Mini prices, and that camera is objectively a better money maker for low end production work. ProRes workflow, real cinema body, and a name producers know and feel comfortable with. 

If this weren't my livelihood, or I had more money to toss around, I'd probably give it a go...but $4K is gonna relegate it to a "wait and see" for me personally.

[DBounce]

41 minutes ago, TheRenaissanceMan said:

Looks like a damn fine camera. Nice image, nice body, flexible mount, plenty of features. Shame about the blue clipping and rolling shutter. 

Problem for me is that this is knocking on used Ursa Mini prices, and that camera is objectively a better money maker for low end production work. ProRes workflow, real cinema body, and a name producers know and feel comfortable with. 

If this weren't my livelihood, or I had more money to toss around, I'd probably give it a go...but $4K is gonna relegate it to a "wait and see" for me personally.

Valid points,  but on the other hand there's nothing mini about the mini.

[Tyler Hansen]

So like some people here, the deal breaker for me is 4K60P Full Frame. I commented on Atomos' IG and they responded with this. I guess uncropped 4K60P is happening through HDMI?

[TheRenaissanceMan]

2 hours ago, DBounce said:

Valid points,  but on the other hand there's nothing mini about the mini.

Not in a way that holds me back. I don't do a lot of gimbal work, and if I really needed it I'd get my buddy to come out with his Movi and BMPCC4k. 

[thephoenix]

9 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

I think you might be forgetting about the indy cinematographers who want full frame, an EVF, a more adaptable lens mount and steady handheld footage

to me full frame is a bit overrated, so many cinema cameras are s35.

you're right about evf, i am thinking about getting the bmpcc6k but i know i will need an evf to go with it as i really don't like framing and filming only with a monitor, i don't feel beeing into it without an evf.

for steady you still can use a gimbal but sure it is less handy

i wonder also if resolve will allow processing the raw from pana, if not then pana will suffer a lot

8 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

OK so here's the thing about add-on EVFs. They are all shit. They all need stupid wobbly cables, they all upset the centre of gravity and balance of a mirrorless camera, they all draw attention to you so people know you're shooting video in public and the Permit Krackens swoop, people get upset, etc. They all cost a lot of money and they all take big chunky 1990's style camcorder batteries or hook into an even bigger v-lock brick on your spidery stupid rig, and therefore they are horrible to use, horrible to pack away, horrible to assemble and slow to boot up. Then the battery dies, poof.

And all that just to see the fucking picture under sun.

I despise external recorders and external EVFs. None of the manufacturers have innovated. None of them have stepped out of their cinema bubble and come up with anything as elegant as a mirrorless camera's built in EVF.

FF vs S35 is not a comparison dependant on the codec. The aesthetic is different, the lenses are different, the lens circle is different. Discuss that, then we can discuss the codec separately because it is literally a separate topic!

EF lenses still rule, of course they do, so put one on L-mount with the Sigma adapter. Done.

Price chasm is not that big. In the UK for instance Pocket 6K is £2300 and S1H £3599.

But the Pocket 6K has no EVF so you need to add one for £1000

The Pocket 6K has no stabilisation so you need to add a cage and shoulder rig for £500.

Alas the Pocket 6K has a piddly little battery which the meter decides it has had enough off after 10 minutes with random shut downs, so add the v-lock for £300 minimum.

Final price? £4100.

Don't get me wrong I love what Blackmagic did with the image and codec. Just wish it was in a different camera not the shit one they put it in.

but the pocket does 6k and not only in 24p...

[thephoenix]

 

[Yurolov]

I don't know, with the sales on the s1 making it really affordable to own, if you only shoot 4k then the s1 seems the more value proposition. Really all you have for the s1h is the promise of raw which you have to shoot externally.

Also, super 35 is one thing to manually focus, but FF is a different ballgame. If you are putting it on a gimbal, you are even more limited. Focus matters to a lot of people and it will be a continual stumbling block until they can sort it out.  

[Andrew Reid]

10 hours ago, docmoore said:

Pretty much have relegated my P6K to tripod .... just too much to handhold 

but the image is stellar.

 

 

 

The S1H will be a run around camera ... ND filter but not much else. 

I see why it is relegated to a tripod

Nothing against the rig, it's great if that's what you need.

It's the number one shot loser for me having a rig.

Slows me down to a snails pace.

And it has achieved nothing. It has only added back the EVF and battery life you get BUILT IN to mirrorless cameras. The bare basics needed to see the screen and shoot for longer than 30 mins.

[Mako Sports]

12 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

I think you might be forgetting about the indy cinematographers who want full frame, an EVF, a more adaptable lens mount and steady handheld footage

True, it isn't 2012 anymore where your only options were a Canon 5dmkii/T3i or the original BM Cinema Camera.

[Oliver Daniel]

1 hour ago, Andrew Reid said:

I see why it is relegated to a tripod

Nothing against the rig, it's great if that's what you need.

It's the number one shot loser for me having a rig.

Slows me down to a snails pace.

And it has achieved nothing. It has only added back the EVF and battery life you get BUILT IN to mirrorless cameras. The bare basics needed to see the screen and shoot for longer than 30 mins.

@Andrew Reid, I'm totally with you on your feelings. 

I shoot for a living, and to make my type of projects work - we need to be very nimble, quick and creatively free. Using these Franken-Spider rigs we see a lot of would kill that completely. This is why I've not bought any Blackmagic camera. I have the EVA1 but I only use an additional 5" screen on the hot shoe and that's it. EIS works fine. 

I understand some people love to create these rigs and feel really pleased about it, but when you're in a very small team or on your own, I think it's unnecessary. I believe (and from my own experience), being free with just the camera in your hands and nothing else makes a massive difference to the creativity in your filming. Throw in a gimbal and little slider (when required) and you've got a lot of options. 

The S1H looks near perfect for that purpose. Only downside is that if you are a gimbal user, then having reliable AF on a full frame is a godsend. 

[nathlas]

23 minutes ago, Oliver Daniel said:

. 

The S1H looks near perfect for that purpose. Only downside is that if you are a gimbal user, then having reliable AF on a full frame is a godsend. 

Maybe we will lucky enough to see Panasonic to stay in this area -and not be dissapointed by possible low sales- and deliver to us a second generation S cameras with improved AF .

[Oliver Daniel]

38 minutes ago, nathlas said:

Maybe we will lucky enough to see Panasonic to stay in this area -and not be dissapointed by possible low sales- and deliver to us a second generation S cameras with improved AF .

They must be neglecting PDAF for a reason. I don't think for a second they can't do it. Their cameras are widely accused of this shortfall so they must be listening.  I think they feel they've got something better up their sleeve........