Looking for some second opinions on investing in a set of lenses

[RupertPupkin]

Hello all,

 

Long time lurker, first time poster.

 

I'm looking for some second opinions on a uniform set of glass to invest in.

 

I currently shoot on a T3i but I plan on upgrading to a higher end camera in the near future, most likely a BlackMagic.

 

I have an extensive collection of vintage prime lenses that cover all of the important focal lengths, the only problem is they are a bevy of different brands.  I want to choose a brand of lenses and get a full set so that the colors and contrast are uniform throughout.  

 

The lenses I am leaning towards right now are Nikkors (non ai versions), SuperTakumars, and Zeiss (Pentacon Six medium format).

 

For Nikkors I currently own:

 

24mm f2.8

35mm f2

 

For SuperTakumars I currently own:

 

50mm f1.4

55mm f1.8

135mm f3.5

 

And for Zeiss all I have is the 50mm f4

 

Whatever brand I settle on I will mostly likely build a full set and sell all my others.  This is a hard decision for me because I really enjoy the aesthetics/ergonomics each brand has to offer.  I enjoy the Nikkors because they produce great images, have good focus throw and have limited breathing.  I enjoy the SuperTakumars because of the very warm image they produce, and they are a bit softer and create a great vintage look.  I enjoy my Zeiss because of the color, and the great focus throw and virtually zero breathing (and it's Zeiss, enough said).

 

Factors that are making this decision more difficult for me:

 

While I love the warmth and look of the SuperTaks probably the most out of any of my lenses, they are somewhat of a one-trick pony, and the warm, soft, vintage image will most likely not suit my needs for every shoot I do.  The images produced can also sometimes be tough to color grade because of the already "baked in" look they have.  They would most likely be the cheapest option, however.

 

The Nikkors I think would be a safe bet, as their relatively neutral color reproduction would make color grading easier than the SuperTaks. But I do feel it is more difficult to get that awesome image the SuperTak can produce without any grading, than a graded Nikkor shot.

 

I would immediately opt for the Zeiss medium format lenses because they are sharp wide open and are the highest quality out of all the options, however, they have the most reasons for me to second guess the choice.  The medium format lenses are pretty massive, especially with an adapter attached to them, if I ended up getting a BMPCC, I have a feeling they would just be too large for the tiny camera to handle.  Also, since they are medium format lenses there aren't any focal lengths shorter than 50mm (wide for medium format standards) and this would most likely be a huge issue with a BM large crop factor (no real wide angle lens options, besides non medium format zeiss).

 

Sorry for the long-winded post but as you can probably tell I've had an internal debate going on in my head for months now on which full set to invest in, so any informed second opinions would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks! 

 

 

 

 

[andy lee]

Carl Zeiss Varios Sonnars C/Y mount and N mount are my fovourite right now - and amazinglly sharp so great if you buy a BMCC

 

 

also Yashica ML 24mm and 28mm are made in the same factory as the Carl Zeiss sonnars and the Yashicas are widely regarded as Distagon equivilants - very sharp superb lenses

again in C/Y mount

 

 

this lens is insanely good - very very sharp and renders great filmic images

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ext-Contax-Carl-Zeiss-Vario-Sonnar-28-70mm-F-3-5-4-5-T-MMJ-MF-Lens-C-Y-Yashika-/271292010605?pt=Camera_Lenses&hash=item3f2a43906d

 

also small and light - great for run and gun hand held plus a very useful zoom range - parfocal too

 

C/Y mount can be used on loads of cameras with the right adapter

I use on my Canons and Pansonics

[RupertPupkin]

Thanks for your opinions, Andy.

 

I've never really considered getting a lens that isn't a prime, but I suppose it could be pretty convenient if I'm shooting on the go with the pocket camera.

 

How is the focus throw and breathing with the 28-70?

 

Also, it isn't a very fast lens, do you have experience using it on a BlackMagic?  If so how is the DOF?  I would like the ability to shoot some shallow shots.

 

Lastly, do they make one of those speedboosters for the c/y mount?

 

Thanks.

[gloopglop]

Idk about lenses but I like your username Mr. Pumpkin welcome

[Bioskop.Inc]

That's a tough choice!

 

As Andy has said the Yashica ML lenses are a cheaper alternative to Zeiss & are excellent.

 

I love the Super-Taks, but am a bit confused about your soft remarks - they have a razor thin DOF wide open, but are not soft by any means. There is a warm feel to them, but i find using the VisionColor profiles really helps with grading my footage - also you should be manually dialing in your WB & so you can make your footage cooler. The only other down point is that the 35mm i've got is f3.5 (but with the speedbooster it'll be better - for BM Pocket) & i'd sell the 135mm in order to get the 105mm - i'd even get rid of the 50mm to make some cash for other lenses.

 

Nikkors, well enough said, they are lovely lenses & you'd only need to get the 50mm pancake & perhaps the 85mm.

 

If not a really cheap alternative would be some russian lenses - they are my favourites & all have pre-set apertures (no click stops), producing perfect round Bokeh:

Mir-24 35mm f2

Helios 44-2 58mm f2

Jupiter 9 85mm f2

Tair 11a 135mm f2.8

 

Personally, i'd keep/make 2 sets of lenses, so that you've always got alternatives/choice & you're pretty much on your way with the Nikkors & the Super-Taks. By your remarks, those are the ones that you seem to like best so go with your gut feeling & don't get swayed into starting a new set from scratch!

[jgharding]

I don't recommend the medium format lenses. They're not very fast and perform relatively poorly wide open when compared to 35mm equivalents, from my experience.

 

I do own the 120mm 2.8 Biometar, but only because the 135mm Contax is lacklustre. The Biometar is a flattering portrait one-trick pony though.

[andy lee]

Thanks for your opinions, Andy.

 

I've never really considered getting a lens that isn't a prime, but I suppose it could be pretty convenient if I'm shooting on the go with the pocket camera.

 

How is the focus throw and breathing with the 28-70?

 

Also, it isn't a very fast lens, do you have experience using it on a BlackMagic?  If so how is the DOF?  I would like the ability to shoot some shallow shots.

 

Lastly, do they make one of those speedboosters for the c/y mount?

 

Thanks.

yes metabones do make a c/y mount speedbooster - these Carl Zeiss lenses have 2 aspherical elements they are sharper than my primes ..I kid you not! rediculously sharp - like a PL mount cinema lens

focus is 180 degress turn from o- infinity and practically no focus breathing at all its a superb lens

I shoot alot of narative stuff and bear in mind cinematopraphers like Freddie Young rarely went above f3.5 on films like Lawrence of Arabia ,Dr Zhivargo , Ryans Daughter etc etc , I find f3.5 great for actors as they hit thier marks, if I want super fast narrow dof I use my c mount lenses f1.4 pentax 25mm etc

[andy lee]

also if you are using a micro 4/3 camera like the BMPCC or G6 the Canon FD L series 24-35 f3.5 is another stunning lens

aspheric elements - razor sharp and a very cinematic look it works well with the  FD 35-105mm f3.5

together they make a very usable range from 24- 105mm all constant aperture razor sharp Canon glass

[andy lee]

Cinematographer Oliver Wood shot The Bourne Ultimatum with 2 Nikon Zooms ,

 

this is from American Cinematographer magazine:

 

“ I mostly used lightweight zooms that I had specially made from two Nikon digital still-photography lenses, a 28-70mm and an 80-200mm,” says Wood. “Arri in Munich converted them to lightweight cinema-style zooms, and they work quite well. The Nikon glass is brilliant.” Dierken notes, “We called them the Oliver Lenses, and they helped the operators shoot everything handheld with the documentary approach Oliver and Paul wanted. Unlike other zooms, which are either too heavy or too slow, these zooms opened up to T2.8 and were quite light. Arri made the housings in six weeks, and the lenses turned out to be very sharp and the contrast was quite good. [Still-photography] lenses turn the opposite of the way cine-style lenses do, which could have been unpleasant if we’d used a normal follow focus, but with the LCS-3 we were able to just reverse the gears. The lenses worked so well that we ended up shooting 70 percent of the movie with them, and now Arri is making more!”

 

you can rent one of them from Arri Rental Here

http://www.arrimedia.com/catalog/productlist.php?catalog_id=306

 

so do think about sharp zooms they are very useful if they have aspheric elements some are sharper than prime lenses too.

[RupertPupkin]

Thanks everyone, this is exactly the kind of information I was looking for...

 

Bioskop,

 

You're right I am manually dialing in my color temp, but I suppose I tend to favor the warmer side with the SuperTak because of how beautiful it can look.  I generally shoot wide open with the 50mm with a variable ND on there, and I do think that it is a bit on the softer side when wide open, but it does generally look pleasing.  I'm confused as to why you would suggest I sell the 50mm because it is the most famous SuperTak lens, the "flagship" so to speak, and when running and gunning it's on my camera the majority of the time.

Also, I do own a couple of Soviet lenses, the Helios 44-2 and the Volna-3 80mm medium format lens (I didn't include these as a set I want to build because I've found that buying these lenses from Russia can sometimes be a gamble.  Both my lenses are superb but I've heard countless horror stories about how the quality control is terrible and when you buy one, its a roll of the dice, you might get a lemon.

 

I do agree the SuperTaks and Nikkors seem to be a very good option for me, but I'm still open to considering other options, and I've never seen any of the vintage Nikkors or SuperTaks on a BMPCC, which would really help sell me.

 

jgharding,

 

Thanks for the input, the medium format zeiss lenses have me the most hesitant.  Not too many people have any experience with them so it's nice to hear from someone who has shot with a couple of them (I've only tried my 50mm).  I'm starting to think it's time to sell my Zeiss 50mm and make some money off it to invest in other lenses (to be honest it isn't in the best of condition either, very rough focus and couple dings).

 

Andy,

 

You almost instantly sold me on the Vario-Sonnar 28-70 lens by the way you talked about it.  I immediately did some research on the lens, but I found less than stellar praises.  I found it described as a Zeiss "kit" lens, cheap and abundant for a reason.  I found people saying it is not sharp enough even for Canon DSLR's.  I even found a couple sources saying that it is simply a rebranded Sigma lens.  People seemed to favor the 28-85 more, or even the 35-70. All of these things were said on photography reviews, not video reviews, so I'm not sure if there is a huge difference between the two 

 

Another question I have is, the lens is labelled as 3.5-4.5, is it not constant aperture? 

 

Thanks everyone for the input, I'm not any closer to making a decision, but boy do I love talking lenses!

 

EDIT:  Sorry, forgot one point...if I were to buy a c/y speedbooster if I got some zeiss or yashica lenses, would I be able to put an adapter on other lenses (like Nikkors) and then place that on the speedbooster?  Or would I be limited to just c/y mount?

 

Thanks again.

 

2ND EDIT:  Andy, I just looked for those canon FD lenses on ebay and that 35-105 seems like a steal if it truly is that amazing, it is DIRT cheap, and covers a huge range.  Interesting.....

[Bioskop.Inc]

Thanks everyone, this is exactly the kind of information I was looking for...

 

Bioskop,

 I'm confused as to why you would suggest I sell the 50mm because it is the most famous SuperTak lens, the "flagship" so to speak, and when running and gunning it's on my camera the majority of the time.

 

Both my lenses are superb but I've heard countless horror stories about how the quality control is terrible and when you buy one, its a roll of the dice, you might get a lemon.

 

I do agree the SuperTaks and Nikkors seem to be a very good option for me, but I'm still open to considering other options, and I've never seen any of the vintage Nikkors or SuperTaks on a BMPCC, which would really help sell me.

Well, i had the 50mm & sold it to fund more lenses - in good condition it can be worth quite a bit, or used to.

My 55mm Super-Tak cost me £15 & its just as good, if not better IMO - sometimes hype is just that.

 

Russain lenses can be a crap shoot - there are a few good Russain ebay sellers who take returns, but i've never had to when buying from them.

 

If you can wait a week, my BMPCC should be with me then - i'll try my Super-Taks out on it & my Nikkor 24mm f2.8 (the latter being a cheap impulse purchase, but if its good then its Nikkors & Russains for me).

[andy lee]

trust me the Carl Zeiss are not rebranded sigmas at all - I have the equivilant 28-70mm sigma lens and its nothing like the Zeiss - completely different lens group elements in it and no way near as sharp - that is miss infomation you are reading

zeiss 28-70mm  is very very sharp -asphereic elements- zeiss glass great contrast and color and famous T* coatings - the others you mention are push pull zooms no use for video only stills

I too read all that same miss infomation you have just read before I bought mine and its not true .

The Canon FD 35-105 is a steller constant aperture lens very cheap !!

[andy lee]

also I am known to bang on about this lens the Carl Zeiss 80mm f2.8 Biometar in Pentacon 6 mount is a simply superb lens

Mine is a 1963 version and the sharpest lens I own , superb for portraits and its a great feel to the image it renders, zeiss glass again

everytime I have to shoot a face close up I use this lens .

[jgharding]

I second the "having options" thing. It is nice to have multiple sets if you can.

 

I also second that Zeiss zooms are brilliant, and also that F4 is a pretty good standard shoot aperture for APSC/Super35, and 5.6 for 5D style full frame, both roughly.

 

Open up if you need to, for the light or the effect, but shoting wide open at 1.4 all the time is a bit of an affectation and makes a lot of work all round!

[andy lee]

I agree JGHarding all fast f1.4 bokeh madness can get very tedious !!

[RupertPupkin]

Bioskop, I would love to see footage from the bmpcc with the SuperTaks and more importantly the Nikkor.

After doing some serious thinking, I believe I have come up with a plan. I think I'd like to build a complete set of Nikkors by getting the 20mm, 50mm, 85mm, 105mm and the 135mm.

If I sell all my other lenses that aren't Nikkors, I should have more than enough to purchase the complete set and have a good chunk of change left over, which I will most likely get a Zeiss zoom lens with, but not until my Nikkor set is complete.

This would be the most cost effective method for me I believe, and I think having a full set of Nikkor primes would be a beautiful thing.

If anyone is interested in buying any of the following lenses you should let me know...
(P6)Bower 14mm 2.8
Olympus 28mm 3.5
Zeiss Flektogon 50mm 4 (P6)
Jupiter 8 50mm 2
SuperTakumar 50mm 1.4
SuperTakumar 55mm 1.8
Helios 44-2 58mm 2
Volna-3 80mm 2.8 (P6)
SuperTakumar 135mm 3.5

[Bioskop.Inc]

stumbled upon this - Pocket + Super-Tak 50mm + pistol grip

 

v.obvious that you need a 3 points of contact & not just a pistol grip, but it'll show you what this lens looks like...

 

https://vimeo.com/78101575

[RupertPupkin]

Thanks for sharing that video, it looks like I'm going to be doing all my shooting on a tripod once I get my pocket camera.

 

Just one last question, if I get the Nikon to MFT speedbooster so I can use all of my Nikkor primes, could I put an adapter on a c/y mount lens to fit onto the speedbooster?  Or would it only work with Nikkon lenses?

 

Thanks

[andy lee]

flange focal distance....

Nikon is 46.5mm

Contax yashica is 45.5mm

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flange_focal_distance

 

so you can not get an adaptor to make a C/Y fit a Nikon mount

 

Nikon mount is too long for C/Y

[andy lee]

just spotted this jem on ebay

Yashica 24mm f2.8 ML - Distagon Equivilant lens

razor sharp superb on G6 and GH2

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Yashica-ML-24mm-f2-8-lens-/190954581208?pt=UK_Lenses_Filters_Lenses&hash=item2c75c7acd8

 

someone should grab this bargin!