NOPE! Canon did NOT remove 24p from the 90D and EOS M6 II to save H.264 licensing fees

[hijodeibn]

5 hours ago, Mokara said:

Not necessarily. They could have negotiated a license with limited rights for a lower fee. That is not unusual in the tech industry. You would do something like that if a particular feature was not necessary for your product, it is a means of managing costs and improving your margin.

I love Canon color, I have an original C100 and I love it,  and I have been waiting for ages for a good 4K camera at a good price, don't care about IBIS, don't care about FF sensor, S35 is good enough for me...but I do care about DPAF, the best useful feature from Canon...and even loving Canon, it is clear to me like a summer morning, these two cameras were cripple, try to argue against it is really stupid, it is so obvious....removing 24fps and people acting like fools trying to justify it is beyond understanding....gosh, we will have to continue waiting for Canon to wake up, I don't put any money to the PRO EOS R, that is going to be so expensive that I could probably be able to buy an Alexa for the same money, If Canon just upgrade the firmware in the RP for DPAF in 4K, we could have such a winner.....

 

[Mako Sports]

lmao rekt

[OliKMIA]

15 hours ago, Mokara said:

It was dropped to save money.

 

14 hours ago, Shell64 said:

Mokora, how do you keep doing this argument when ALL of the evidence is against you? 

Someone once said "Insanity Is Doing the Same Thing Over and Over Again and Expecting Different Results"
 

15 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

He's still going...

Holy fuck.

Flat-Earther too but I'm not sure it deserves an article.

Please don't ban this guy. This is very entertaining.

[Mako Sports]

"It was dropped to save money"

 

[RWR]

Less is more..more or less.

[kaylee]

guys: 24fps is absent from these cameras bc it was just missing

like... ever misplace your keys? or your phone? THATS WHAT HAPPENED!!!

they just couldnt find EVERYBODYS FKN FAVORITE FRAME RATE

 

sounds like willy wonka is running canon smfh. this is UNREAL

[BTM_Pix]

I've heard that, inspired by RED's old 3K for $3K scheme, Canon UK are planning a paid upgrade and will be doing a 24p for 24p offer.

[Cliff Totten]

This really makes you wonder.....just how profitable IS Canon C series cine cameras? I mean,  Canon is going to extreme legenths and dragging their name through the mud to protect their pro division? Are they making THAT much money off the C100 and C200? How many C200's do they sell in a month?....20? Maybe 50?

A Canon 5D V (or mirrorless version) with full pixel readout, unlimited recording in 4k, 60p with 10bit color to a 200mbps long GOP codec and CLog..would sell several hundred a month...easy.

Wouldn"t this EASILY recover and "lost" C200 sales 10 times over and put Canon back on the map again and stop all the Canon joke videos out there?

I just seems like a slam dunk EASY business model.

Unless Canon truely doesnt have the technology to do it.,.....???

[h00b00]

Lack of 24p doesn't affect me much as I do all my shoots in 25p. But the biggest feature that's missing from this camera's coverage is the support for clean, 10bit 422 HDMI out: https://www.usa.canon.com/internet/portal/us/home/learn/education/topics/article/2019/august/4k-and-full-hd-video-with-the-eos-m6-mark-ii/4k-and-full-hd-video-with-the-eos-m6-mark-ii/!ut/p/z0/lZDBboMwDIZfpT1wjJxVqGqPHahqp6KqN8gFeSQFj9ShEMr29st4gEkcP-uTf_8GBTkoxhfV6Mkx2sCF2pbZ7bQ7nRN5kellL2_X63t6PCbn-BDDB6j_hbBh02dJVoPq0DeC-O4g38i3PeQ41uPgIY9bgazFfbRWNFq8SBsnJgq2b4wwbhCPrXhg3wqipTYU9PV8qgOoyrE33yGuQnZcspkm81nOU_aR1FSTR1tagz0T15E0eqzmR6xC3op46KifOZLYe6qsGSL51yTw3CSSS25bZkPXqiL9mda_3X4sFA!!/

That and support for speed booster with DPAF makes this even better than EOS R in value. Yes, the 4K is pixel binned and there's no log profile (although Cinestyle/EOSHD clog can alleviate that somewhat) but full frame 10bit 4k with Canon colors, great Canon glass and dpaf is a pretty competitive feature set in 2019. I'd sell all my Sony gears (they're the new Canon) and switch to Fuji if it were not for their pricey lenses that autofocuses slowly in video; thankfully Canon has provided a decent option.

[David Bowgett]

4 hours ago, h00b00 said:

Lack of 24p doesn't affect me much as I do all my shoots in 25p. But the biggest feature that's missing from this camera's coverage is the support for clean, 10bit 422 HDMI out: https://www.usa.canon.com/internet/portal/us/home/learn/education/topics/article/2019/august/4k-and-full-hd-video-with-the-eos-m6-mark-ii/4k-and-full-hd-video-with-the-eos-m6-mark-ii/!ut/p/z0/lZDBboMwDIZfpT1wjJxVqGqPHahqp6KqN8gFeSQFj9ShEMr29st4gEkcP-uTf_8GBTkoxhfV6Mkx2sCF2pbZ7bQ7nRN5kellL2_X63t6PCbn-BDDB6j_hbBh02dJVoPq0DeC-O4g38i3PeQ41uPgIY9bgazFfbRWNFq8SBsnJgq2b4wwbhCPrXhg3wqipTYU9PV8qgOoyrE33yGuQnZcspkm81nOU_aR1FSTR1tagz0T15E0eqzmR6xC3op46KifOZLYe6qsGSL51yTw3CSSS25bZkPXqiL9mda_3X4sFA!!/

That and support for speed booster with DPAF makes this even better than EOS R in value. Yes, the 4K is pixel binned and there's no log profile (although Cinestyle/EOSHD clog can alleviate that somewhat) but full frame 10bit 4k with Canon colors, great Canon glass and dpaf is a pretty competitive feature set in 2019. I'd sell all my Sony gears (they're the new Canon) and switch to Fuji if it were not for their pricey lenses that autofocuses slowly in video; thankfully Canon has provided a decent option.

In fairness, how many sub-$1,000/£1,000 ILCs actually do offer 10-bit 4:2:2 HDMI output? The only one I can think of off the top of my head is the X-T30.

[Geoff CB]

On 8/30/2019 at 11:40 AM, Entrop said:

Doesn't the 90d have 25p in pal mode? For me 25p was always preferable to 24p. Visually there is no difference to me and 25p is just more compatible to TV standards

Not in the USA!

Really the "reason why" that everyone is arguing about is a moot point. If you need 24p in your work, this camera does not offer it. That's it. Does the reason that Canon did it effect your buying choices, or is the lack of the feature being in the camera? 

Whether it is a cost cutting measure or segmenting their lineup Canon still removed a setting needed by many. Either reason was not good will towards consumers.

[SteveOakley]

Well I hate to tell you guys not beleiving product crippling is a thing with a LONG tradition in the video biz. Back in the days of tape, if you wanted TC you were into a top of the line machine. THis was especially true with 3/4" where there were 3 tiers of product - consumer, "industrial", and broadcast. $5K, $10K, $20k. When you bought one of those amazing 1" BVH2000's TC was an _optional_ board. A timebase correcter was an option. A board storing all of 8 lines of NTSC video was an OPTION in the TBC X 3 board slots. Not even a full frame of storage and it was $20k !. The video industry is filled with a history of up selling and given all the old guys running canon who would love to return to these glory days, guess how they are running the company. Its clear blatent up sell by leaving out critical features in lower and mid tier machines... like the lack of TC I/O on the C100 or C200. Know your history or repeat it ! 

its really simple, send your money somewhere else with a company that gets it, values you as a person and not as a cash cow to be milked. Fuji delivers and works to maintain their customers. Sony, maybe the worst offender of feature up selling as mostly moved on from this practice.  

I bought a XT3 as my B and gimbal cam and very happy with it. Canon had the chance but was really late with the 90D and should of taken my money but didn't because their product ailed to deliver what I wanted. Oh well...

[Cinegain]

There's a difference in offering a diversified line-up with pros and cons to each. Say... currently Panasonic's flagship line-up. Previously? GH4 is the flagship. Now? There's three. The GH5 as the ultimate hybrid with IBIS. The G9 if you appreciate the top LCD, large EVF, mainly photography-minded stuff. The GH5S as non-stabilized videocentric camera with dual native ISO and so on. That's sort of acceptable segmentation (though... I much rather would've had the G9 body and IBIS with GH5S-performance/results, but alas). If they do it, these cameras offer V-Log L (for 'Lite'). Want full V-Log like the VariCams? Want <insert wishlist>? Well, there's an option for you out there, it's just going to cost ya. We can't have all pricepoints and equipment do the exact same job, surely you got to differentiate them somehow. I get that.

What isn't part of natural diversification is Canon's cripple hammer. Where things get left out/get progressively worse and more restricted. So take this 24p... it's always been there, now *poof* it's gone. I mean... tell me, where can I buy the <insert camera> with 24p paid upgrade? It isn't there. You'd have to get into a completely different tier camera ballgame to get that. Something you're not remotely interested in and doesn't fit in with your style of shooting. That to me is next level shenanigans. Canon think that move will get people to move up in the Canon camera hierarchy... oh they're moving alright... but it's to the competition where noone else is leaving out something like 24p.

[frontfocus]

Fuji didn't get the memo, that 24p adds a lot of cost to the camera. They just introduced their entry level camera.

6K to 4K downsampling, 23.98p, 24p, 25p, 30p, all without a crop it seems. 699$ including kit lens. 
No 120p Full HD slow mo though. It's said, that will come early 2020 with an update. 

[Cinegain]

Bit masochistic indeed. Even hurts me to see this happen. They'll probably be bankrupt by the end of this quartal (means the update won't happen!). What a shame.

[VRT]

On 9/10/2019 at 2:46 AM, David Bowgett said:

In fairness, how many sub-$1,000/£1,000 ILCs actually do offer 10-bit 4:2:2 HDMI output? The only one I can think of off the top of my head is the X-T30.

According to Canon's website, the 90d (not sub-$1000, but maybe discounted in near future?) supports the following HDMI output options.  I would assume that the 4k would come out as 10-bit, 4:2:2.

But under HDMI Resolution, not sure if Auto is 4k.  Otherwise, it may only come out as 1080p.  Anyone know about this??  

HDMI Resolution
Auto / 1080p

HDMI output for movie footage
Supported (HDMI information display)

HDMI HDR output
Supported

Color sampling method
Uncompressed YCbCr 4:2:2, 8-bit
Uncompressed YCbCr 4:2:2, 10-bit
Uncompressed RGB, 8-bit

Color space
BT.709, BT.601, BT.2020

https://www.usa.canon.com/internet/portal/us/home/products/details/cameras/eos-dslr-and-mirrorless-cameras/dslr/eos-90d-body

(look under specs>video shooting>hdmi outpout)

 

[RWR]

..in my inbox today from Canon Rumors (subject line):

"Canon is gearing up for a big 2010."

[nathlas]

https://www.the-digital-picture.com/News/News-Post.aspx?News=33626&fbclid=IwAR1Wa9PyqGo9yJwGJlh5P55hl0a3Ajo_Kh1ZJnLc2jjfwCUZsmwFBnEwGrA

 

 

Well, case is solved then.

 

I assume that was a firmware evolution delay or clients pressure has done that .

[Mako Sports]

43 minutes ago, nathlas said:

https://www.the-digital-picture.com/News/News-Post.aspx?News=33626&fbclid=IwAR1Wa9PyqGo9yJwGJlh5P55hl0a3Ajo_Kh1ZJnLc2jjfwCUZsmwFBnEwGrA

 

 

Well, case is solved then.

 

I assume that was a firmware evolution delay or clients pressure has done that .

ahahahahahahaha

so it was true

they removed 24p as an intentional cripple

[plucas]

https://www.canonwatch.com/canon-to-deliver-24p-video-mode-to-select-cameras-via-firmware-update/amp/