Sony 6K Full Frame PXW-FX9/FX6 Leak

[User]

With that autofocus, it seems Sony has finally built a full frame replacement for my PD150. Nice.

[Geoff CB]

On 9/19/2019 at 8:23 PM, ntblowz said:

Some guy selling both F5 and FS7 for around $3700, scarlet mx for $4400 on trademe.

Yeah the best part of this camera is the pushing down of other camera prices. Used FS5 is now going for $1900, you can get a refurbished one from Adorama for $2100. Which if you get a recorder is a beast of a camera.

Might pull the trigger on a FS5 mark II when the FX6 comes out, I want that electronic ND  

[kye]

3 hours ago, User said:

With that autofocus, it seems Sony has finally built a full frame replacement for my PD150. Nice.

A couple of weeks ago a lady noticed my GH5 / VMP rig and asked me about it.  Turns out she runs a small studio and is looking to replace her PD170 and "go HD".  We spoke for some time  and it was obvious from the conversation that she hasn't been looking at the tech for quite some time.  Her three concerns were 1) no-one was offering any money at all for selling her PD170 (people were offering $20 and 'novelty' amounts like that), 2) she wanted to digitise all her tapes, and 3) she wanted to get new equipment and was admiring how small the GH5 was.

Really goes to show how we on these forums are in a little bubble of 4k/6k 10-bit etc, when there are people out there who haven't gone HD yet, and we did the $200 challenge with HD cameras!

[thebrothersthre3]

2 minutes ago, kye said:

A couple of weeks ago a lady noticed my GH5 / VMP rig and asked me about it.  Turns out she runs a small studio and is looking to replace her PD170 and "go HD".  We spoke for some time  and it was obvious from the conversation that she hasn't been looking at the tech for quite some time.  Her three concerns were 1) no-one was offering any money at all for selling her PD170 (people were offering $20 and 'novelty' amounts like that), 2) she wanted to digitise all her tapes, and 3) she wanted to get new equipment and was admiring how small the GH5 was.

Really goes to show how we on these forums are in a little bubble of 4k/6k 10-bit etc, when there are people out there who haven't gone HD yet, and we did the $200 challenge with HD cameras!

On the plus side there would be so many great HD options for her that wouldn't break the bank while also being a huge upgrade. 

[kye]

14 minutes ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

On the plus side there would be so many great HD options for her that wouldn't break the bank while also being a huge upgrade. 

Absolutely.  I mentioned to her the GH1 and GH2 shot very nice 1080 and could be bought second-hand for very little money in comparison to new cameras.  I think her challenge is likely that she's not so technical, so wading through the various complexities of MILC setups may require considerable research.  My (very vague) memories of working with a PD150 was that you put in a tape and rewound it, plugged in a mic, made sure the phantom power for the mic was on and had a fresh battery, then thought about other things (like what was in front of the camera).

The setup from scratch, per-setup, and per-shot checklists on a MILC setup is about 50 times longer!

[barefoot_dp]

11 hours ago, kye said:

  My (very vague) memories of working with a PD150 was that you put in a tape and rewound it

 

Blasphemy! Never re-use a miniDV tape!

Unless you're talking about pre-striping for TC, but in that case you should've rewound it immediately after you finished the first pass (And done this in a separate deck so that you don't put unnecessary hours on your cameras tape heads and drive mechanism)!

I only just recently got rid of all my old mini-dv tapes - a collection of thousands., because I never re-used them.

[kye]

52 minutes ago, barefoot_dp said:

Blasphemy! Never re-use a miniDV tape!

Unless you're talking about pre-striping for TC, but in that case you should've rewound it immediately after you finished the first pass (And done this in a separate deck so that you don't put unnecessary hours on your cameras tape heads and drive mechanism)!

I only just recently got rid of all my old mini-dv tapes - a collection of thousands., because I never re-used them.

All I know was that it was my sister who was the poor film student who had to pay for her miniDV tapes, so it was her making the decisions.

We were using the universities loan cameras so you can be sure that they weren't treated all that kindly either I would imagine!!

[IronFilm]

17 hours ago, Geoff CB said:

Used FS5 is now going for $1900, you can get a refurbished one from Adorama for $2100. Which if you get a recorder is a beast of a camera.

You still need to pay for the raw license though

14 hours ago, kye said:

1) no-one was offering any money at all for selling her PD170 (people were offering $20 and 'novelty' amounts like that)

Ha, the PD170 is lucky to be worth even twenty bucks!
 

14 hours ago, kye said:

Really goes to show how we on these forums are in a little bubble of 4k/6k 10-bit etc, when there are people out there who haven't gone HD yet, and we did the $200 challenge with HD cameras!

Very true. 

Although the last time I worked with a SD camera was probably five or six years ago. 

14 hours ago, kye said:

Absolutely.  I mentioned to her the GH1 and GH2 shot very nice 1080 and could be bought second-hand for very little money in comparison to new cameras.  I think her challenge is likely that she's not so technical, so wading through the various complexities of MILC setups may require considerable research.  My (very vague) memories of working with a PD150 was that you put in a tape and rewound it, plugged in a mic, made sure the phantom power for the mic was on and had a fresh battery, then thought about other things (like what was in front of the camera).

The setup from scratch, per-setup, and per-shot checklists on a MILC setup is about 50 times longer!

I think she should buy a Sony X70 secondhand, or perhaps a Panasonic FZ1000 / Sony RX10 or similar 

[kye]

47 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

You still need to pay for the raw license though

Ha, the PD170 is lucky to be worth even twenty bucks!
 

Very true. 

Although the last time I worked with a SD camera was probably five or six years ago. 

I think she should buy a Sony X70 secondhand, or perhaps a Panasonic FZ1000 / Sony RX10 or similar 

It probably is only worth that much, but when you think about how much she likely paid for it, and how it still basically does the same job as before and we still have the same eyes, it must be a bitter pill to swallow.

In terms of her next steps, I have no idea.  I didn't ask too many questions about her business or budget or get into ROI or all of the million questions that I'd ask someone on here.  She didn't seem technical and she had an accent I couldn't place, so her studio might be somewhere exotic where SD is still a going concern, or there might still be SD or HD-limited infrastructure around where she is.  I recall John Brawley commenting that the network he was shooting for still only broadcast in 720p, and that's in the US which is pretty tech-forwards in comparison to many other countries on earth.

[barefoot_dp]

10 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Ha, the PD170 is lucky to be worth even twenty bucks!
 

It has a niche market among skate fillm-makers, though. Up until a few years ago even it's predecessor the VX1000 (from 1995!) was popular with skaters. I think it was a combination of skate films having a punk/grunge style where IQ was not terribly important, and 4:3 still being popular because it could allow better framing and coverage with a fisheye lens. And the built it top-handle allowed them to hold it low to the ground while riding. This market meant that for a long time the prices on for a VX1000/VX2000/VX2100/PD150/PD170 were generally higher than other cams from that era.

9 hours ago, kye said:

 I recall John Brawley commenting that the network he was shooting for still only broadcast in 720p, and that's in the US which is pretty tech-forwards in comparison to many other countries on earth.

A lot of the networks here in AUS actually went BACK to SD broadcast from HD for some of their channels. I think they realised that using the same amount of allocated bandwidth, they could broadcast multiple SD channels and therefore charge for more ad time than having a single HD channel.

I think we're a very, very long way off 6K or even 4K being the main distribution format, and Sony know that too. That is why they have left 6K recording out for now. It's nerds on forums that care about 6K & 8K, and anyone actually working in broadcast production knows that (really good) 4K is all they will need for the next camera upgrade cycle.

[EthanAlexander]

16 hours ago, barefoot_dp said:

It has a niche market among skate fillm-makers, though. Up until a few years ago even it's predecessor the VX1000 (from 1995!) was popular with skaters. I think it was a combination of skate films having a punk/grunge style where IQ was not terribly important, and 4:3 still being popular because it could allow better framing and coverage with a fisheye lens. And the built it top-handle allowed them to hold it low to the ground while riding. This market meant that for a long time the prices on for a VX1000/VX2000/VX2100/PD150/PD170 were generally higher than other cams from that era.

I got my start 15 years ago on a VX2100. Skate videos and comedy short films. Those were the days...

[Mako Sports]

6 hours ago, EthanAlexander said:

I got my start 15 years ago on a VX2100. Skate videos and comedy short films. Those were the days...

Speaking of skate videos, I just watched Mid 90s. Movie was awsome and would highly recommend. 

[thebrothersthre3]

2 hours ago, Mako Sports said:

Speaking of skate videos, I just watched Mid 90s. Movie was awsome and would highly recommend. 

Looking forward to more from Jonah Hill 

[Adam Kuźniar]

Guys, I see you got lost, the Nursing Home is down the street to the left.

[wolf33d]

The footage of the FX9 looks great. Hoping to see the same image in the A7SIII cause this huge body is not for me. 

[ntblowz]

51 minutes ago, wolf33d said:

The footage of the FX9 looks great. Hoping to see the same image in the A7SIII cause this huge body is not for me. 

I m gonna say a7siii is never gonna happen, maybe a7siv or a7sv, they are going VI generation now.

[Billitteri]

I'm really crossing my fingers that the a7siii does happen, and has the ability to at least record raw externally like some of the other MILC options coming out lately. I have an a7iii and am constantly looking at the EOS R, despite all its shortcomings, because I could adapt EF lenses perfectly and they would work on a BMPCC6k in the future. 

[wolf33d]

I do not care about the name. But there will be an A7S replacement in the coming months. They can call it III IV or XX I do not mind. 

I just saw that the FX9 basically has an internal SteadXP that gives gimbal like stabilization in post thanks to the Gyros. I waited a long time for camera manufacturers to propose that. It's a billion time better than IS. 

It looks like the A7S will have the same sensor. Main difference will be ergonomics and possibilities offered by the FX9. If we are lucky they allow 10 bit internal 4K60P and the difference will be no RAW external. But let's see. No ND on the A7S as one more differentiation (and NO 4K120p S35). Or maybe 4K60p will be S35. 

An A7S III with this sensor/color science + 4K60P FF 10 bit and the new A7RIV AF would kill anything on the market. As the closest competition (Panasonic) crops 4K60p and their AF is a joke. 

[ntblowz]

2 hours ago, wolf33d said:

I do not care about the name. But there will be an A7S replacement in the coming months. 

I am pretty sure gh6 will come out earlier than next A7s, because then a7s will be back to drawing board again ?

[thebrothersthre3]

2 hours ago, wolf33d said:

I do not care about the name. But there will be an A7S replacement in the coming months. They can call it III IV or XX I do not mind. 

I just saw that the FX9 basically has an internal SteadXP that gives gimbal like stabilization in post thanks to the Gyros. I waited a long time for camera manufacturers to propose that. It's a billion time better than IS. 

It looks like the A7S will have the same sensor. Main difference will be ergonomics and possibilities offered by the FX9. If we are lucky they allow 10 bit internal 4K60P and the difference will be no RAW external. But let's see. No ND on the A7S as one more differentiation (and NO 4K120p S35). Or maybe 4K60p will be S35. 

An A7S III with this sensor/color science + 4K60P FF 10 bit and the new A7RIV AF would kill anything on the market. As the closest competition (Panasonic) crops 4K60p and their AF is a joke. 

Don't count on it being all that