Serious Issues GH2 - Do you have these problems or fixes?

[LewisFilm]

Hi Andrew and Company,

I feel like I've been a bit of a buzz-kill around here lately, and I certainly don't mean to be.  I just want to share information, as befits a great forum like this, and I have great respect for Andrew's work, and Vataliy's.

So this is going to sound like a litany of problems - but this is not a bash on the camera, or the people on the forum.  I just figure people want to know about these things, and I would love some advice and help as well.

Problems:
Corrupt Band
Corrupt Files / AVCHD Conversion Failure
Problems returning to original firmware after patching
Abort during recording
Massive Frequency Banding on Floro lighting...

For the record: I'm a doco shooter for the major international tv networks for the last 13 years, shooting in all conditions across 50 countries, on all kinds of gear.  I'm totally committed to the aesthetic, but for me, in the range of conditions I work in, reliability actually comes first.  At the moment, the Sony EX1 and EX3 get huge points in my book for reliability, and lose out hands down to the DSLR world for image.

Here a video that shows the most obvious problem I've had lately...

https://vimeo.com/38991736

I've also had 1/10 files come out so corrupted that FCP 7.03 or CLIPWRAP 2 could convert them.  The programs lock or quit, and the file is junk.  The best results I've had are importing to Premiere Pro, which doesn't seem to abort, but the files come out like this... (keep watching for the almost "tape-like" dropouts)

This interview was shot very quickly - an impromptu office shoot with no lighting changes possible and ungraded.

https://vimeo.com/38995735

I've also had problems updating the firmware, or returning to the original firmware - the only workaround I've found for that is using PTOOLS to progressively raise the version number for the camera to accept it. (So, right now my version number is 15)

I've also had the camera abort recording unexpectedly on a number of occasions.

And horrid problems with flureoscents - which only shooting at 1/40 seems to help.  Anything higher and the flicker just gets worse. 

https://vimeo.com/38996346

This problem is far more serious than on any other unit I've used above a totally consumer model.

I have re-installed the firmware, and tried both the Unified 88 and Vanilla 44 patches.  Still same problems.

I know that this could be a bad unit, or a sensor problem, but my gut feeling is that it's not.  Because the behavior of the camera changes so much with the patching.  And the stills mode seems unaffected by any corruption issues.

If anyone has any suggestions for anyone of this, please let me know.  I will also continue testing the camera and report any findings or fixes.

Cheers All,

-A-

[Axel]

Hi,
although I had some issues with the GH2, some of which are supposedly connected to one or the other hack, I cannot confirm yours, or at least not all of them and not in comparable circumstances.

So let me sum them up:

1. I [i]do[/i] have very rare occasions, when video is not playing smoothly. I record an average of 30 minutes a day, and maybe one percent of all takes [u]contain[/u] jerky parts that look like your "corruption problem". [u]Only with a hack[/u] (changed the FW about a hundred times, I guess, so it's not [i]one[/i] bad setting). Solution: I am an amateur most of the time, but sometimes I do second (or third, fourth) camera, when some kind of long show is recorded without interruption from different angles to combine them in a multicam edit. I don't rely on hacked bitrates then. I have a card with only the 29'59" limit unchecked to change FW at any time.

2. I had [u]once[/u] a corrupted file with Vanilla on FW 1.0. It played back completely and flawlessly in the camera. Only the first five seconds or so could be transcoded by Log&Transfer in FCP 7. MpegStreamclip crashed, QTPro crashed, Premiere crashed (tried to export H.264 on a friend's system). I couldn't give up, because it contained an important shot for the film. Finally I exported Aiff with QT and ProRes (video only) with Toast (!), and I got it. No solution, because once is once.

3. Grey picture or image freeze breakdown with 66 or Quantum tests on a cheap Transcend card, not unusual, as others report the same. Solution: Only SanDisk Extreme Pro ("not "video") for the  higher bitrates.

4. Some lights [u]do[/u] have that peculiar electronic frequency that indeed requires 1/40 shutter. You very likely meet them at clubs, i.e. when LED-lighted objects change colours. The flickering, however, will appear with [i]every[/i] camera which isn't set to "clear scan".  Solution: One has to be aware of the problem. Different mixed frequencies need to be avoided (better turn off the lamps in question). You can detect the flicker in the EVF.

I NEVER HAD:
> the problem with the line on the bottom (looking like tape that's not properly in track)
> a problem that a FW cannot be changed or only by renaming the files. You didn't uncheck "version increment", did you?

Conclusion: I don't see you as a "buzz-killer", or I am one myself. Firmware without bitrate- and GOP-changes is overall more reliable. In well-lit places, there are only subtle differences between original FW and hacked one (now, if you are a buzz-killer, I am a [i]traitor[/i], no?), and sometimes (to me) it is not worth the risks.

But more often, as an amateur and self-determined artist, with no time-pressure or need to compete in efficiency with, say, a Sony EX, I do prefer 44 mbit, and I will use the Intra-hacks also.

[LewisFilm]

Thanks Axel,

When I first started using my GH2, I did have some freezes on good class 10 cards - I started using Extreme Pro 95mpbs cards and have been using those, or Lexor Pro cards if I run low on media on a long shoot.  So, that's not the issue for sure.

I did more testing today - more Clipwrap crashes.  I feel like the only option now is to either buy a new body (and that seems insane given my experience with this one) or buy an FS-100, which is probably what i am going to do.

Unhacked, or returned to the original settings, camera seems to be fine.  And when I first hacked it - the only consistent problem i had was that I couldn't play back files.  These problems didn't show up until the 4th project I used the camera on - and after a lot of testing.

I know so many people have had such huge successes with this camera and the hack - I don't know why mine has been such a problem.  Suggestions are of course very welcome.

-A-

[Axel]

[quote author=LewisFilm link=topic=445.msg2827#msg2827 date=1332462859]
I feel like the only option now is to either buy a new body (and that seems insane given my experience with this one) or buy an FS-100, which is probably what i am going to do. [/quote]

To buy by a FS100 certainly is a good idea. Has some really big advantages over the GH2. But don't forget, that with the whole interchangeable lenses affair, a camera is as well defined by it's own features as by the lenses you get for it. With the NEX, you are going to have to start over again. And one thought more on "only option":

[quote author=LewisFilm link=topic=445.msg2827#msg2827 date=1332462859]Unhacked, or returned to the original settings, camera seems to be fine.  And when I first hacked it - the only consistent problem i had was that I couldn't play back files.  These problems didn't show up until the 4th project I used the camera on - and after a lot of testing.[/quote]

With higher bitrates, people see more detail. They see it (and I did also) although it isn't there. I made a lot of tests myself. I saw comparisons of others, sometimes named "proof of detail". But the actual detail in every instance didn't change. What the encoder does when left to it's 24 mbit and default GOP-size (in the FS100 as well) is ironing out artifacts out of dark areas. It simplifies the image by reducing noise, almost like Neat does. A higher bitrate and a lower GOP reduces the efficiency of the encoder, and fewer unspecific noise is eliminated. The noise artifacts have a positive effect on the image, insofar as it gets dithered. As a projectionist, I have a model for this in analog film stock. Imagine a Super 8 film projected at 18 fps. The visible film grain seems to disappear magically if you accelerate to 24 fps. There is no detail added, the resolution wasn't improved, but more random samples of noise create a seemingly better defined image. (EDIT: The example serves as a model only. Since the film grain [i]is[/i] the detail - comparable to pixels, the resolution goes up with more samples - see also speed of a tape machine. Noise is no detail. Scrutinize car plates or sth. like this in the comparisons, and you sometimes find them [i]harder[/i] to read in the hack-clips!)

Your examples are pretty highkey shots. I assure you, if you conducted own tests, you would find out, that under these circumstances the quality is not only not improved by a hack, it is also not [i]changed[/i]. Hard to believe, I know.

With lowkey shots, the quality is also not improved in any scientifically provable way. But with images, the quality is really what you see with your own eyes. So imho, if it [i]looks[/i] better, it is better. Everybody loves the 5D M2 for it's colours and it's look. The video images are so full of artifacts, that most little camcorders for 600 € top it in resolution. So what?

The AVCHD profile and the video-specific processor of the FS100 are better, no doubt. You will have less banding problems (posterization, not the stripe on the bottom in your example). Better Lowlight (see Bloom shootout, depends on lens of course). I suggest you keep the GH2 as your second camera.

[pittsure]

I have the same issues with my GH2 which I just recently hacked. I'm using the Sandisk Extreme 32gig 10 class card and the error says the card can't handle the speed. My camera is freezing up, showing lots of noise, and the menu settings are changing to black and white. Very strange stuff. The camera also won't shut off. Does anyone know the fixes for this?

[Axel]

Does your GH2 also behave normal if you undo the hack?

EDIT: In a parallel thread, s.o. solved a "serious issue" by formatting the card. So this is [i]not[/i] a matter of course? With "erase all" a card is not properly swept clean. And particularly with different hacks permanently tested. That conflicts of metadata occur can not be hard to imagine.