In depth coverage - Panasonic announce 4K video capable Micro Four Thirds sensor

[leo]

I have used Canon DSLRs for years. I am not very educated in terms of different sensors and I have a few questions.

 

-What will be the crop on this sensor? (verses full frame or a 5D3)

-What kind of Dynamic range will we see?

 

I recently took a trip to rural India and went wild with the Magic Lantern Raw on a 5D3. I'll post a video soon. After this, I can't see myself using any other camera for a long time. Will this hold a flame to that?

Funny, let me put it even more blunt, NO DSLR holds a candle to GH3 right now, let alone a future GH4, the image is so soft it's almost embarrassing for 2013, dynamic range is lost because of codec and image processing.

I tested in weddings d600,5d 2 and 3 (from colleagues )compared to gh3, except the full frame look wich is gorgeus for details, DSLR's are dead to me.

Once you put a metabones speedboster  with fast primes you can forget about ever using a DSLR for video.

Also, DSLR's are dead to professionals, you can have c100,c300,fs100,fs700, they are way better than any dslr or mirrorless, but for the strictly for family/travel stuff you hardly beat the exceptional video quality of gh3, the small size,easy of use and decent picture quality.

Of course we are not talking about shooting raw, even serious shooters who do 20 events or more a year don't ever bother shooting raw with Magic lantern.

[Paulio]

Funny, let me put it even more blunt, NO DSLR holds a candle to GH3 right now, let alone a future GH4, the image is so soft it's almost embarrassing for 2013, dynamic range is lost because of codec and image processing.

I tested in weddings d600,5d 2 and 3 (from colleagues )compared to gh3, except the full frame look wich is gorgeus for details, DSLR's are dead to me.

Once you put a metabones speedboster  with fast primes you can forget about ever using a DSLR for video.

Also, DSLR's are dead to professionals, you can have c100,c300,fs100,fs700, they are way better than any dslr or mirrorless, but for the strictly for family/travel stuff you hardly beat the exceptional video quality of gh3, the small size,easy of use and decent picture quality.

Of course we are not talking about shooting raw, even serious shooters who do 20 events or more a year don't ever bother shooting raw with Magic lantern.

 

I think the 5dmkIII raw very much holds a candle to the gh3, and i'm a gh3 owner. Filmmaking and event shooting are different horses. I would use a cheesy camcorder to shoot a film over my dead body, more sharpness is the least of my concerns.

[GMaximus]

If the coming camera can record the full sensor in a 4:3 aspect ratio at 10bit 4:2:2 I'd be very, very happy. It's the way anamorphic shooting was intended many years ago, and for good reasons.

 

Fingers crossed.

 

As it's there in the spec sheet, the sensor readout speed is only 22.5 fps.
If we crop the central part of the sensor, 4k sized: the speed is 1/81300 sec per line, we need 2160 lines => that's 37.6 fps.

If we crop the readout part to 16:9 (full sensor width), it would read 31.1 fps.

[Andrew Reid]

As it's there in the spec sheet, the sensor readout speed is only 22.5 fps.
If we crop the central part of the sensor, 4k sized: the speed is 1/81300 sec per line, we need 2160 lines => that's 37.6 fps.

If we crop the readout part to 16:9 (full sensor width), it would read 31.1 fps.

 

Good maths sir.

 

Maybe I will badger Panasonic for a 4:3 crop of the sides in 4K. Easy to implement with firmware. Currently for 4:3 or 3:2 the 5D Mark III with Magic Lantern raw video is the best if you want that for anamorphic.

[Andrew Reid]

I think the 5dmkIII raw very much holds a candle to the gh3, and i'm a gh3 owner. Filmmaking and event shooting are different horses. I would use a cheesy camcorder to shoot a film over my dead body, more sharpness is the least of my concerns.

 

I think he means DSLR in the sense of the current shoddy factory provided form for video. That's what I meant anyway. Because of Magic Lantern the 5D Mark III is very much alive. I wouldn't still have mine if it wasn't for that. FS100 was fast eclipsing it. A7R would have been final straw.

[Michael Ma]

I think price is way off.  In 5 months time, 4K will be enabled in a lot of consumer electronics.  Sure they won't be as good as the GH4, but these consumer devices will be demonstrating to the consumer that only minor changes to the GH3 will enable it to do 4K.  Primarily the sensor, data bus, and the processor.  Some of these components would have been a given on the GH3 successor, 4K or not. Is that worth a $2,000 extra?  Definitely not in 5 months.

[aldolega]

Consumers probably won't even be considering the GH4, as it will be part of the Panasonic pro/prosumer line, not the consumer line. Most of them won't even know of its existence because it won't be at the normal consumer outlets- Best Buy, etc. But the true successor to the GH3, the GH5 or whatever they call it, will be, and it certainly will have 4K, but probably just at 8-bit 4:2:0. And of course at a high consumer price point, say $1400-1500.

[Germy1979]

I wonder if Atomos has an upgrade path with the blade or a 4k external recorder in the works. It's slim pickins otherwise unless you're ready to fork over more than the camera for that luxury. Atomos usually offers good solutions for a lot cheaper. Just sayin.. 4k internally at 10-bit 4:2:2 would probably fill a CF card up so fast it'd be hard to justify the cost. So the idea of having to use an external recorder sounds more realistic at those specs.

[leeys]

As someone who started as a photographer (and is still primarily one), going back to post-processing work without raw data is like going back to 2001 digital cameras and shooting in JPEG. Sure, it's a lot more taxing with video, but the flexibility and higher quality are so worth it.

 

As for the lifespan of 4k, mass market adoption won't happen until everything is in place. The camera is just one part of three.

[ScreensPro]

Until we see the various sports channels pick up 4K, you can forget about any major interest in 4K sets for the home. It will be niche market for trend followers and film buffs.

[leo]

I think the 5dmkIII raw very much holds a candle to the gh3, and i'm a gh3 owner. Filmmaking and event shooting are different horses. I would use a cheesy camcorder to shoot a film over my dead body, more sharpness is the least of my concerns.

What filmmaking are you talking about, school project ? kiddie stuff for no money ? there is no paid job where you go with mark3  and magic lantern firmware, shooting raw on hopefully fast CF's hoping it won't drop frames.

[Lucian]

Low/no budget filmmaking. We have shot them on everything from GH2, to Red depending how much money there is.

 

I've never shot 5d RAW so I can't attest to it's stability and i'm not suggesting you shoot an event with it, but the IQ is pretty great. On a short film it might be a feasible trade off though, IQ will trump stability within reason. That was my point, event shooting and filmmaking are different applications with different priorities. Bread and butter I work staff on studio films in vfx, I've worked budgets from 0 to 180 million. It's not necessarily kiddie stuff just because there is no money being made and its not a wedding video.

 

 

 

What filmmaking are you talking about, school project ? kiddie stuff for no money ? there is no paid job where you go with mark3  and magic lantern firmware, shooting raw on hopefully fast CF's hoping it won't drop frames.

[zephyrnoid]

 

As for the lifespan of 4k, mass market adoption won't happen until everything is in place. The camera is just one part of three.

The reason that getting 4K content capture out FIRST has become so critical, is that content distributors discovered from past mistakes that putting the 'cart before the horse' resulted in lost sales opportunities and obsolete Hardware.

Builting momentuum in the CONTENT is the correct driver, pushing the development of the rest of the value chain components to 'Hurry Up & Deliver' in logical sequence.

An example is that when Blu-Ray won the lottery as the defacto 1080p HD Disc Distribution format, the electronics industry bussied themselves releasing the players and burners (all but Apple I may add) , too long before there was much content to run on the machines.
Online Video to> handhelds immediately shifted the paradigm and POOF! mass distributed Blu-Ray content is all but dead.
This time, the smart money is to get the 4K content rolling out ( especially since lower than 4K formats are easy to procure from the masters). Once the content is out, then the rest of the components ( Storage> Processing>Editing>Distribution) will follow in logical 'roll-outs' thereafter.
I didn't invent this concept of Content First. RED Digital Cinema did way back in 2005.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Digital_Cinema_Camera_Company

 

 

[ScreensPro]

What filmmaking are you talking about, school project ? kiddie stuff for no money ? there is no paid job where you go with mark3  and magic lantern firmware, shooting raw on hopefully fast CF's hoping it won't drop frames.

 

I find 5DRAW far more stable than the early Red ONE we worked with. I'd have no huge problem using it on some commercial projects. Nothing where timing is critical (except maybe as B/C cam)... But things like prdocut shots, why not? Have a back up cam and storage, like you would do any other digital camera

[austinmcconnell]

Until we see the various sports channels pick up 4K, you can forget about any major interest in 4K sets for the home. It will be niche market for trend followers and film buffs.

 

NBC Sports is already shooting 4K, actually. They down-convert to 1080p, often using the extra resolution to 'zoom' during replays. The technology is there, but the issue is cable companies are not supporting it at the moment. It will take a while before broadcasting companies are willing to upgrade their workflow. You'd be surprised how many TV channels actually still only operate in standard definition because they don't want to shell out the money for HD. 

[leo]

So to sum up the conclusions of all here, you all might use 5d 3 in raw but it will never be the main workhorse of any production, it's like the poors man raw camera.

[Paulio]

So to sum up the conclusions of all here, you all might use 5d 3 in raw but it will never be the main workhorse of any production, it's like the poors man raw camera.

 

I think that is your conclusion. There are plenty of shorts shot with the 5d raw, but yes it's overkill for filming a wedding.

 

And The bmpcc is clearly the "poor man's" raw camera if you feel the need to label one.

[Tone13]

When they say this sensor is the "lowest noise sensor on the market" are they comparing it to other MFT sensors or ALL sensors. Lower noise in high ISO's than a 5DIII?

Panasonic really need to make this camera 10bit 422 in camera at 4k and 1080o. At least the SDI bolt on should give you 10bit........

[hmcindie]

What filmmaking are you talking about, school project ? kiddie stuff for no money ? there is no paid job where you go with mark3  and magic lantern firmware, shooting raw on hopefully fast CF's hoping it won't drop frames.

 

Actually, in the real world, the Canons are very much in demand. GH series shits on the other hand? No one uses them.

 

The BMC's might get some pro-attention at some point. We'll have to wait and see.

[leo]

Actually, in the real world, the Canons are very much in demand. GH series shits on the other hand? No one uses them.

 

The BMC's might get some pro-attention at some point. We'll have to wait and see.

Unfortunately this is true, met some people who don't know gh2 and 3 exists, they are like "what ? Panasonic ? what ? "

When 70D was first shown, some friends thought this never existed in a camera before, taping on the back for focus, yeah baby, canon :)