paulinventome Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 I succumbed and bought one. I will test more fully over the next week. Ergonomically from a stills view it's very much a urgh. No EVF makes life very difficult for me but i do have the VF on order so maybe that will change things. Cine mode. DNG. It's heaven. This is all you need from a camera. I've side by sided UHD 8bit onto SDXC vs A7sII UHD Slog2/Sgamut and there's no joke. It's almost comical. The low end and the highlights are literally playing in different ballparks. What crushes the A7sII footage is the compression. Simple as that. So that 8 bit UHD is remarkably good. I'm pushing and pulling it and comparing to the same thing shot FHD in 12 bit and it's incredibly robust - so much more than it should be. Over the next week i'll push and pull properly. I got it as I needed a lightweight B cam to my Red for a shoot - so i need to intercut and i'll be finding it's comfort zones side by side with everything. So far the best resolve post in in ACES. My fear with going into any 709 space is that the camera native spectral response will be outside of 709. All Sony sensors push red way out and it's easy to see with bright red subjects. If you don't debayer into a larger colourspace then those reds get clipped or mushed into gamut. I don't know enough about DNG support in Resolve but visually into ACES appears much better. The only other valid option i think is Linear in, certainly none of the BMD Presets as they're for very different sensors. Cheers Paul Lars Steenhoff, Llaasseerr, tomastancredi and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lars Steenhoff Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 I think you will find that the VF attachment will make a big difference. Emanuel and paulinventome 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechanicalEYE Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Lars Steenhoff said: I think you will find that the VF attachment will make a big difference. It does help a great deal in my opinion. paulinventome 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulinventome Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 13 hours ago, mechanicalEYE said: It does help a great deal in my opinion. Thanks Lars & mechanicalEYE Yes, for some reason they're not in stock in the UK, so waiting on a backorder. Even so, having a whacking great VF at the back kind of negates the beauty of such a small camera. More so for stills - i was hoping maybe it would replace my A7sII but not so sure now. For cine use this would mostly be rigged onto things, especially as it is so light, so it's not so much of an issue. Might even be rigged for wireless video and FF. cheers Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lars Steenhoff Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 Time to buy some ssd soon https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2019-11-18-these-early-black-friday-ssd-deals-start-at-under-gbp90 AndI wonder if this fits under the camera: https://www.amazon.co.uk/ICY-BOX-Enclosure-USB-C-Aluminium/dp/B07JJXCSC4/ref=pd_sbs_23_6/259-6578831-3731332?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B07JJXCSC4&pd_rd_r=b4280426-078f-4369-b526-edaf86434aa7&pd_rd_w=u8Jet&pd_rd_wg=u3GEr&pf_rd_p=cc188cba-1892-42b3-956f-6c67d0ab7a00&pf_rd_r=2Q7Y9GVDF0J1BS63E13M&psc=1&refRID=2Q7Y9GVDF0J1BS63E13M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulinventome Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 1 hour ago, Lars Steenhoff said: Time to buy some ssd soon I've been pushing and pulling the 8 bit DNGs in lightroom, comparing to 12 bit FHD and also Sony A7sII stills. Whilst i can see the limits in the shadows, as there are no compression artefacts, then what you get is remarkably usable. Pushing something 5 stops over to compare shows the 8 bit DNGs really not that far from the Sony RAW and 12 bit versions. So i'm running to a 128GB SD Card (ProGrades) and have yet to really break the image. This is less to do with the sensor and more to do with no compression. That's the key, compression kills everything. So i don't know what you're planning on shooting at the moment i'm skewing towards 8 bit. 10 bit linear is no use whatsoever. 12 bit 24p would make a difference but i can't use 24p As i mentioned above, if we users can drop sigma a line and show how much we want 10 bit DNG with a linearisation table then that would be the sweet spot and i would externally record. If we're lucky they could experiment with writing 10 bit to SD card as well... And maybe do some other frame sizes... (4096 DCI widescreen!) cheers Paul Lars Steenhoff 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lars Steenhoff Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulinventome Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 Nice find Lars. Log profile is utterly irrelevant on this camera and it won't expand the dynamic range. You have the RAW output - you will never get better than that. This is the whole point of this camera... RAW via HDMI is a nice idea. cheers Paul Brian Williams 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rawshooter Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 4 hours ago, paulinventome said: Log profile is utterly irrelevant on this camera and it won't expand the dynamic range. You have the RAW output - you will never get better than that. This is the whole point of this camera... Actually, it would be helpful if 10bit RAW was encoded as Log values (instead of linear values, as it is with the current firmware). Same actually with 12bit RAW, since the camera has a 14bit DAC... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lars Steenhoff Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 Yes it would be, and thats what we should ask sigma, Log for compressed video does not interest me as much. But would love to be able to bake LUTs for compressed footage, for the quick turn around projects, to be able to grade them in camera. and those LUTs would apply to a log input better than without. -So ok Log internal with a grading option of LUTs, and a log to linear table for the Raw. -External recording to pro res raw does not interest me so much on this camera, but its good to have options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulinventome Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 10 minutes ago, rawshooter said: Actually, it would be helpful if 10bit RAW was encoded as Log values (instead of linear values, as it is with the current firmware). Same actually with 12bit RAW, since the camera has a 14bit DAC... Yes, drop them a line and ask. That's what i mean. Doesn't have to be log, the values they choose can match the data better - it could be a log with an s curve to distribute mid tones better. We will never see that curve, we will only ever see the results after the curve. Whilst the DAC is 14 bit i am pretty sure that the mode they are running the sensor in is 12 bit output for motion. And a 10 bit DNG with a linearisation table would hold everything a 12 bit linear file could - i see no reason for a 12 bit option at all. I think 4096 across should be an option though, even if it's scope (4096 x 1716) or 2:1 (netflix style 4096 x 2048) - the overall data rate would be roughly the same as UHD. 1 minute ago, Lars Steenhoff said: Yes it would be, and thats what we should ask sigma, Log for compressed video does not interest me as much. But would love to be able to bake LUTs for compressed footage, for the quick turn around projects, to be able to grade them in camera. I think a couple of wish list items. Yes, a user LUT to output baked formats would be useful in some cases. But tools to expose for RAW better - i'm still trying to wrap my head around the zebra at 100% and what that actually means. cheers Paul Lars Steenhoff 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebrothersthre3 Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 6 hours ago, paulinventome said: Nice find Lars. Log profile is utterly irrelevant on this camera and it won't expand the dynamic range. You have the RAW output - you will never get better than that. This is the whole point of this camera... RAW via HDMI is a nice idea. cheers Paul It would be nice to have LOG if you ever wanted to shoot non RAW for a project that didn't require it. Lars Steenhoff 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Williams Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 On 11/18/2019 at 5:08 AM, Lars Steenhoff said: Time to buy some ssd soon https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2019-11-18-these-early-black-friday-ssd-deals-start-at-under-gbp90 AndI wonder if this fits under the camera: https://www.amazon.co.uk/ICY-BOX-Enclosure-USB-C-Aluminium/dp/B07JJXCSC4/ref=pd_sbs_23_6/259-6578831-3731332?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B07JJXCSC4&pd_rd_r=b4280426-078f-4369-b526-edaf86434aa7&pd_rd_w=u8Jet&pd_rd_wg=u3GEr&pf_rd_p=cc188cba-1892-42b3-956f-6c67d0ab7a00&pf_rd_r=2Q7Y9GVDF0J1BS63E13M&psc=1&refRID=2Q7Y9GVDF0J1BS63E13M I’m curious to know which SSDs will work with the camera; I know Sigma said only the Samsung T5’s greater than 250gb’s would be officially supported at this point, but I’m sure others can work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lars Steenhoff Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 I'm pretty sure the nvme ssd's should work, they are much faster than the samsung t5, so I don't see any problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rawshooter Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 [deleted, misread something] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lars Steenhoff Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 I read on amazon : Read and write speeds of over 850 MBps, when connected to a Thunderbolt 3 or USB 3.1 Gen 2 port. Over 40% faster read speeds and over 200% faster write speeds than leading SATA SSD external enclosures and USB 3.0 flash drives, make long wait times a thing of the past. https://www.amazon.com/Protection-Enclosure-Innovative-Connecting-Thunderbolt/dp/B07Q7H5QLX This is the big B meaning megabytes your stating it in megabits 850 megabytes equals 6800 megabits Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinegain Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 Wonder if this thing really is up to snuff: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2124504218/warpdrive-high-speed-portable-ssd/description Lars Steenhoff 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rawshooter Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 The question still is: What is the power consumption of this solution? It may be fast and affordable but drain the battery much faster than a T5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KC Kelly Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 Does anyone know if the Sigma fp shoots 24 fps, or outputs C4K? If not, has there been any talk that these two options will be added in the near future? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rawshooter Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 It shoots 24fps but not C4K. IronFilm 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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