Sigma Fp review and interview / Cinema DNG RAW

[mercer]

2 hours ago, Brian Williams said:

Yeah, I haven’t shot raw since my days of the original BMPCC, and I will say that being able to change white balance after the fact is the best thing in the world. Just wish their was good hybrid that also did raw. Z6?

I guess the Z6 is a good hybrid? I don't shot stills so I'm not the best person to ask. As a raw camera, I wouldn't want the external recorder.

What type of stuff do you shoot? Have you considered having two cameras... one for video and one for stills? The z-cam e2c is a cheap cinema camera that shoots raw, ProRes and h.265 and you can use your phone to monitor and control the camera. As you mentioned the G9 has become a pretty good hybrid with excellent IBIS and 10 bit video. 

The only camera out that I would forego raw video is the S1H... but it's a bit pricey IMO.

[thebrothersthre3]

9 minutes ago, mercer said:

I guess the Z6 is a good hybrid? I don't shot stills so I'm not the best person to ask. As a raw camera, I wouldn't want the external recorder.

What type of stuff do you shoot? Have you considered having two cameras... one for video and one for stills? The z-cam e2c is a cheap cinema camera that shoots raw, ProRes and h.265 and you can use your phone to monitor and control the camera. As you mentioned the G9 has become a pretty good hybrid with excellent IBIS and 10 bit video. 

The only camera out that I would forego raw video is the S1H... but it's a bit pricey IMO.

The S1 gives pretty much the same image if you don't need 4k 60p in 10 bit and gives you $2000 to invest in a lens which you'll need if you want to shoot stills.

Here is one for $1699, thats $2300 more for lenses or rent ?
https://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-Mirrorless-Resolution-L-Mount-Compatible/dp/B07W1H5DSZ/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=panasonic+s1&qid=1577066155&sr=8-3

 

[Lars Steenhoff]

The workflow with raw is very easy for me, I have realtime playback in resolve at 4k and even adding effects like filmconvert still play in realtime. ( I do have a radeon 7 that helps )

If you add a small hd oled, you also get your headphone output back

and the flipping screen

and the peaking and zebras at the same time

and lut support

Its what makes the camera complete for me.

Now I'm waiting for in camera playback and I'm all set

[thebrothersthre3]

7 hours ago, Lars Steenhoff said:

The workflow with raw is very easy for me, I have realtime playback in resolve at 4k and even adding effects like filmconvert still play in realtime. ( I do have a radeon 7 that helps )

If you add a small hd oled, you also get your headphone output back

and the flipping screen

and the peaking and zebras at the same time

and lut support

Its what makes the camera complete for me.

Now I'm waiting for in camera playback and I'm all set

So you are happy with the Sigma it sounds like?

[Lars Steenhoff]

Yes it works well for me.

But I don't use autofocus for video

I use the sigma 45 mm for stills and the autofocus is fine for that

I still would like to have a wideangle lens with autofocus in the same size of the 45 mm.

For video to not have to worry about in camera settings such as

white balance

sharpness

picture profile

is what makes this camera great for me.

I can put the sharpness in camera at +5 and get a clear picture for focussing

and later in resolve I set the dng sharpness to what I want.

[thebrothersthre3]

3 minutes ago, Lars Steenhoff said:

Yes it works well for me.

But I don't use autofocus for video

I use the sigma 45 mm for stills and the autofocus is fine for that

I still would like to have a wideangle lens with autofocus in the same size of the 45 mm.

For video to not have to worry about in camera settings such as

white balance

sharpness

picture profile

is what makes this camera great for me.

I can put the sharpness in camera at +5 and get a clear picture for focussing

and later in resolve I set the dng sharpness to what I want.

Do you find the dynamic range lacking? 

[Lars Steenhoff]

No I did not have any problems with dynamic range

And make sure you set the bit depth to 14 for stills and 12 for cinema if you want to get the max out the camera.

This is a frame from a 12 bit cdng graded in photoshop. its shot trough a window and with a 30 year old lens.

 

[Andrew Reid]

Gorgeous shot that is mate. Lovely silky tones. What lens was it with?

[Lars Steenhoff]

Nikon 50-300 ED ais f4.5

Its my favorite zoom lens, nice manual focus ring and on the sigma I have two lenses at apc, it becomes a 75- 450mm

( this was shot at apc )

Only downside is the minimum focus distance that is a bit far

[Lars Steenhoff]

Creative with optical effects

 

[cpc]

On 12/23/2019 at 12:49 AM, mercer said:

Idk, I don't own the camera so it's hard to say, but I do know with proper exposure tools, and exposing to the right, I can pull highlights down insanely well with raw video... but I've never used 12 bit linear, so I suppose there are some limitations.

Based on Noam Kroll's review and Andrew's comments, it seems that internal 8bit raw would be the way to go for me... especially considering the limitations linear raw apparently has at under 14bit.

Well, it should be quite obvious that this camera is at its best (video) in 12-bit. The 8-bit image is probably derived from the 12-bit image anyway, so it can't be better than that.

I think any raw camera should utilize a digital spotmeter similar to Magic Lantern's. This is really the most simple to implement exposure tool and possibly the only thing one needs for consistent exposure. I don't need zebras, I don't need raw histograms, I don't need false color. It baffles me that ML had it 7+ years ago and it isn't ubiquitous yet. I mean, just steal the damn thing.

[mercer]

1 hour ago, cpc said:

Well, it should be quite obvious that this camera is at its best (video) in 12-bit. The 8-bit image is probably derived from the 12-bit image anyway, so it can't be better than that.

I should have been clearer... I didn't mean that the 8 bit image was better than 12 bit... I simply meant that with the camera's limitations, I don't know if I'd sacrifice the size advantage of the camera for 4K 12 bit with an SSD. For me, I'd shoot mostly 1080p and use the 8 bit 4K for establishing shots. And for some projects, the 8 bit raw is probably good enough.

1 hour ago, cpc said:

think any raw camera should utilize a digital spotmeter similar to Magic Lantern's. This is really the most simple to implement exposure tool and possibly the only thing one needs for consistent exposure. I don't need zebras, I don't need raw histograms, I don't need false color. It baffles me that ML had it 7+ years ago and it isn't ubiquitous yet. I mean, just steal the damn thing.

Yup, I regularly use the Raw Histogram/ETTR hint with ML, but the spot meter is all you need for consistent results. Recently, I've been trying the Spot Meter in conjunction with the Histobar to get a quick visual of my highs and lows.

I'm really surprised no camera company hasn't stolen half the features from ML. Canon should just hire A1ex and implement MLV into every camera above $2000.

[Thomas Hill]

1 hour ago, cpc said:

I think any raw camera should utilize a digital spotmeter similar to Magic Lantern's. This is really the most simple to implement exposure tool and possibly the only thing one needs for consistent exposure. I don't need zebras, I don't need raw histograms, I don't need false color. It baffles me that ML had it 7+ years ago and it isn't ubiquitous yet. I mean, just steal the damn thing.

I've never used Magic Lantern. How does their digital spotmeter differ from how most cameras implement spot metering? Is it more like a handled meter that gives readings without adjusting the settings?

[Lars Steenhoff]

Its showing the ev numbers based on the raw, most camera's don't show the ev numbers in the spot meters center

[cpc]

6 hours ago, Thomas Hill said:

I've never used Magic Lantern. How does their digital spotmeter differ from how most cameras implement spot metering? Is it more like a handled meter that gives readings without adjusting the settings?

It does honor settings, and it is most useful when pointed at various parts of the scene to get a reading off different zones without changing exposure, pretty much the same as you'd use a traditional spot meter. The main difference is that the digital meter doesn't have (and need) a notion of mid grey: you get directly the average (raw) value of the spot region, while a traditional spot meter is always mid grey referenced. You can certainly use a light meter very successfully while shooting raw (I always have one on me), but the digital spotmeter gives you a spot reading directly off the sensor which is very convenient, cause you see what is being recorded. Since you'd normally aim to overexpose for dense skin when shooting raw, seeing the actual values is even more useful.

5 hours ago, Lars Steenhoff said:

Its showing the ev numbers based on the raw, most camera's don't show the ev numbers in the spot meters center

Originally, the ML spotmeter was only showing tone mapped values, but they could also be used for raw exposure once you knew the (approximate) mapping. Of course, showing either the linear raw values or EV below the clip point is optimal for raw.

[Lux Shots]

10 hours ago, cpc said:

 

I think any raw camera should utilize a digital spotmeter....

That's one of the best features on the S1H, and I use it all the time. When shooting in V-LOG, it even shows you the reading in stops over middle gray, so you can just tag a highlight and a subject's face and your going to go!

[Alejandro]

Anyone else with a similar problem? ... I shoot with the Sigma FP using UHD DNG and the result was very strange every 8 to 9 frames it skips back one frame.. very odd. Any suggestion how to fix and will this continue to happen?

Here it's the link for you guys to see. 

https://we.tl/t-dcHyWdY8Hx

[MikhailA]

Has anyone got the LVF-11 LCD Viewfinder? I just got mine and it is something strange is happening with dioptric correction:  the best position is almost -2.0 (sharp and comfortable image). Four people, all have never worn glasses. Don`t know what to think,  I guess the best position should be around 0 (plus/minus) in this case

[Thomas Hill]

12 hours ago, MikhailA said:

Has anyone got the LVF-11 LCD Viewfinder? I just got mine and it is something strange is happening with dioptric correction:  the best position is almost -2.0 (sharp and comfortable image). Four people, all have never worn glasses. Don`t know what to think,  I guess the best position should be around 0 (plus/minus) in this case

With my glasses on, it's clear from about -1.25 all the way to -2. Without my glasses, it never gets clear.

[MikhailA]

On 12/28/2019 at 9:28 AM, Thomas Hill said:

With my glasses on, it's clear from about -1.25 all the way to -2. Without my glasses, it never gets clear.

Well.. probably  you have the same situation .It works between 1,5 and 2.0.  Looks like it was by design..

On 12/22/2019 at 2:30 PM, Lars Steenhoff said:

Yes I noticed the shutter delay too, And its really annoying to see your shot that you thought you captured suddenly missed.

I wonder if this can be fixed or that it will be a flaw that will stick.

And the other thing I noticed is that the brightness on the lcd is changing in manual focus mode with exposure simulation on. This is also not expected and annoying.

 

There  is another thing I noticed — a lag of displaying photos in full quality during in-camera playback. When you scroll from image to image it takes about a second ( a bit less) to display each photo in full quality (before this you see sort of blurry preview version), whether using raw, jpeg or both at any resolution. But when you do the same thing in zoom-in mode everything is ok, no lag at all. I use Sandisk extreme pro uhs-ii 64gb, formatted in camera. It is really annoying (especially with the viewfinder)  when you need to fast review multiple stills you’ve just shot. Has anyone run into this?