Sigma Fp review and interview / Cinema DNG RAW

[Devon]

13 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

It's a really great camera right now, feature packed. Yes, LOG would be nice and I am 99% sure it's coming, but I wouldn't be hesitant to use it in the V1.0 state it is in.

Thanks Andrew. I guess my issue is taking the risk with gray market purchases. It seems people buy grey market camera bodies less often than grey market lenses. Do you have an opinion on gray market cameras?

[rawshooter]

@Devon, I am not Andrew, but a gray market camera simply boils down to a camera without warranty, so you're getting a discount for the risk of likely having to pay repairs or replacements out of your own pocket if your copy should be defective.

Postscript - Sigma very clearly states that their warranty does not include gray market cameras:
https://www.sigmaphoto.com/article/important-information-regarding-gray-market-sigma-products/

"As of January 1, 2017, any product that is not imported by Sigma Corporation of America or purchased from an unauthorized Sigma USA Dealer will not be serviced under warranty regardless of the service required. The Sigma Corporation of America Service department will service these products for a minimum $250 charge in addition to the required parts and labor charges at the owner's expense."

[redepicguy]

On 4/29/2020 at 8:40 AM, Devon said:

Thanks Andrew. I guess my issue is taking the risk with gray market purchases. It seems people buy grey market camera bodies less often than grey market lenses. Do you have an opinion on gray market cameras?

Private messaged ya Devon

[Devon]

On 4/29/2020 at 9:06 AM, rawshooter said:

@Devon, I am not Andrew, but a gray market camera simply boils down to a camera without warranty, so you're getting a discount for the risk of likely having to pay repairs or replacements out of your own pocket if your copy should be defective.

Postscript - Sigma very clearly states that their warranty does not include gray market cameras:
https://www.sigmaphoto.com/article/important-information-regarding-gray-market-sigma-products/

"As of January 1, 2017, any product that is not imported by Sigma Corporation of America or purchased from an unauthorized Sigma USA Dealer will not be serviced under warranty regardless of the service required. The Sigma Corporation of America Service department will service these products for a minimum $250 charge in addition to the required parts and labor charges at the owner's expense."

Thanks for the reply @rawshooter! It’s sounds like there not many lemons when it comes to the FP. What are your opinions on buying an FP grey market?

[Chris Whitten]

I don't know. A few EOSHD members have had issues with their FP that I have not had. So it is random and variable.

It's a very new camera with not many users globally. So if you are worried about hardware issues I would buy from a recognised dealer.

Some official Sigma dealers my have an ex-demo body, or customer return.

I regularly buy nearly new gear from main dealers.

[rawshooter]

8 hours ago, Devon said:

Thanks for the reply @rawshooter! It’s sounds like there not many lemons when it comes to the FP. What are your opinions on buying an FP grey market?

Do not do it. We have the shadow flickering bug that affects only some cameras - so in case this needs to be fixed in hardware, you will be out of luck.

Besides, have you fully read the statement by Sigma? Any repair of a grey market camera does not only need to be paid out of your own pocket, but you'll also be charged $250 extra. That means that the money you saved will evaporate as soon as you need the camera to be serviced.

[Devon]

@rawshooter @Chris Whitten Really good points! Thanks! Yeah maybe I’ll avoid gray market 😕

[Chris Whitten]

Somehow it was discouraged to further add to the thread.

Anyway, I had to shoot a very short clip over the weekend. It is so easy.

I dropped it into Davinci Resolve - engaged the Blackmagic Film setting in the camera drop down (as some have advised not to), didn't use ACES, adjusted a bit of exposure, contrast and saturation and it looked great. Job done.

[canonlyme]

On 1/20/2020 at 4:55 PM, Andrew Reid said:

It's a blazing lens. Glorious. Still totally undervalued. I got my Canon EF version for £200. The AF even works well on the Fringer Nikon Z adapter (pictured below) for stills. Not so much video as the AF motors are clunky and old, very noisy... Optically though, it's glorious.

 

Andrew, will I be able to adapt it to the pocket 4k? Is there a mount which I might find it cheaper in on ebay? 

Cheers 

[PannySVHS]

@canonlyme I have the Tokina in the "Angenieux" F2.6 Version in Nikon mount. I loved the look from 2.8 (2.6) on, through all focal lengths. From my testing back then pretty consistent regarding colour and contrast. Unfortunately didnt get it to inifinity due to crappy adapter on my EF to mft focal reducer. Tested it again on my Sony F3 this week, perfect focus to infinty with a rock solid FZ to Nikon mount. Awesome!

So, yes you can easily adapt it to the pocket. It comes in nikon, canon ef and minolta Amount versions. Nikon version is the only one with manual aperture afik. 200 for the Nikon version in good condition is a great deal. It is not even too hard to find. Would recommend a cheap NF to MFT focal reducer to really make it shine on you camera.

[Andrew Reid]

Tried this lens on the Fp today with the Sigma MC-21 adapter for EF.

Does anybody else find that it greys out the Digital stabilisation option with this adapter?

It only seems to work with my Sigma 45mm F2.8 L mount lens. Is the gyro in the lens?

Doesn't seem to work with adapted MF lenses either.

Hopefully Sigma can put IBIS and a tilt-screen in the Fp2. Would really make it my go-to small full frame camera if they did.

So far with the Fp though, there is a lot to be said for the "forgotten art of sticking it on a tripod" like a GH2. A phrase coined by @BTM_Pix which I am stealing and adopting for many many future uses.

[BTM_Pix]

1 hour ago, Andrew Reid said:

So far with the Fp though, there is a lot to be said for the "forgotten art of sticking it on a tripod" like a GH2. A phrase coined by @BTM_Pix which I am stealing and adopting for many many future uses.

You are also hereby licensed to use the phrase "the forgotten art of using a few lights now and again" as well !

[MikhailA]

Hello.  Here is the official answer from Sigma about 0.1 second shutter lag:

 

”We are so sorry that your fp is showing a lag between the moment of release and the actual picture. We are aware of this, and unfortunately, this is how fp works at this point. This is a display lag happening between the sensor and LCD.

 

I will forward your message to our engineer team, and they will check if there is something they can do to fix this. However, at this moment, we have to ask you to accept that this is how fp works.”

So maybe they will come up with something...

[MikhailA]

By the way, please, can anybody confirm (or deny) that it is possible to shot 12 bit RAW with the flashlight at 1/30 sync speed. I saw the post of Ellis Vener on dpreiew.com  (who made this review https://ppmag.com/news/product-review-sigma-fp) that it is possible? I have no flash to check it.

https://***URL removed***/articles/4708478348/compact-capable-and-imperfect-first-impressions-of-the-sigma-fp?comment=1592968735

Ellis Vener

"The biggest problem I had with it as a stills camera when I was reviewing it is the sync speed. 1/30th at best but that meant twelve-bit raws, but for 14-bit raws, X-Sync drops to 1/15th"

[Andrew Reid]

On 2/5/2020 at 7:10 PM, Scott_Warren said:

Hello all, long time reader / lurker and recent Sigma fp buyer here.

I wanted to join into the fp conversation and ask if anyone else is experiencing black level flickering with firmware 1.01 with 12bit 4K capture?

There are a handful of quick technical tests I've done to figure out the flickering behavior, and this is the most comprehensive:

It doesn't show in the above video, but ISO 400 actually still flickers. With my own camera, 320 is the highest I can go on the low end, and the next one up without flickering is 2500. 

On the other hand, it doesn't seem to be a massive loss right now since 320 + F1.4 seems to be enough to capture a dark city road close to how it appears in person, as you can see with this clip:

Would anyone be willing to do a quick ISO test of their own camera to see if you have any flickering blacks at each ISO level? It shows up quickly, so each ISO wouldn't need more than 5 seconds of capture time to see it. It doesn't seem to matter what the light source is, either, as it happens in sunlight as well as with LED lighting. 

It may be subtle in the image if it happens, but you'll definitely see it happen in the bottom of the waveform on playback in your post software of choice. Oddly, it seems to mostly affect the red and blue channels. 

I've tried resetting the camera and re-installing the firmware to no avail. 

Can confirm this is a bug on mine too. Did you ever find a fix?

It happens to me no matter what video mode or settings are used.

Reminds me of the similar issue on the Nikon Z6 which has a similar sensor!

[rawshooter]

This is a known issue, and there is no fix (yet). Everyone is waiting - and hoping - for firmware 2.0 to fix it.

[JimJones]

Honest question. I have a choice of this cam, the Zcam E2, the S1H or the BMPCC 4k/6K. Use is underwater mainly but above water for B roll etc as well. The biggest single issue for me is selecting a camera that has an underwater housing available for it because all of these cameras are good. All the mentioned cams do have a housing for them - however the FP has what I consider the slickest housing for it. But the others also have good housings for them as well, just not as good as the fp IN MY VIEW.

My perceived needs; RAW is a priority because of WB issues underwater, 12 bit is important for tonality (banding of water hues at low bitrate). Good sensitivity allows creative freedom. I am asking this here on this thread because I feel the FP is the way to go but underwater shooters bag the FP. I am hearing that they feel the S1H is a better cam...is it? I think a lot of it is a Ford Vs Chevy thing.......I prefer Chev, which way do you roll?

So how does one cut through all the chaff and pick a cam that is as good as can be at this point in time (because 2 years from now all these cams will be outdated). The underwater housings cost more then the cameras themselves and lock one into that cam until you drop a boatload of cash on a new housing for the next generation of cam.....its an old game for young players.

[rawshooter]

17 minutes ago, JimJones said:

So how does one cut through all the chaff and pick a cam that is as good as can be at this point in time (because 2 years from now all these cams will be outdated). The underwater housings cost more then the cameras themselves and lock one into that cam until you drop a boatload of cash on a new housing for the next generation of cam.....its an old game for young players.

I've owned both the BM Pocket 4K and the Sigma fp - and while I stuck with the fp because I mainly need a stealthy low-light camera, I'd say that the Pocket 4K is a far more mature camera in every respect (from the user interface to the postproduction workflow, not to speak of the absence of bugs).  

[JimJones]

Thanks for your thoughts Rawshooter.

[PannySVHS]

@rawshooter, would be awesome if sigma would give it some firmware updates. It is a beautiful formfactor with a lot of cool tech underneath and a new exiting mount.