New Nikon D5300 with Expeed 4

[Guest c2dd7b52878779b55f43cc8c269267c1]

Slightly more comprehensive moire test: 

 

Opinions appreciated.

[skiphunt]

Will have to look on another monitor, but I don't see any on my laptop screen at all. What shutter speed is this?

 

Looks good on large plasma HD via Vimeo on Apple TV, though... it looks a little over-exposed. Otherwise looks pretty good. 

 

Just checked out the downloaded full res, looks good.

[Guest c2dd7b52878779b55f43cc8c269267c1]

Will have to look on another monitor, but I don't see any on my laptop screen at all. What shutter speed is this?

 

Looks good on large plasma HD via Vimeo on Apple TV, though... it looks a little over-exposed. Otherwise looks pretty good. 

 

Just checked out the downloaded full res, looks good.

 

Shot at 24p 1/50sec. I'm going to try 50p 1/100 sec tomorrow so motion blur doesn't interfere with details (any moire will be seen more clearly I think). I'll shoot some mesh or something too.

 

I think there is a bit of moire here and there - worst is in the shadows on the roof of the house in the thumbnail.

 

Yes there are a few blown highlights - the lack of a histogram is the thing I like least about this camera. I'm not used to it at all. It'll take me a while to learn how to expose from the LCD.

[skiphunt]

It still looks pretty good. I saw some subtle color shifting/shimmering in the roof tiles that might be a nominal bit of moire, but didn't really notice it in the full res download. 

 

Mine still isn't here, but I'm starting to watch for last minute price drops on the G6. Was obviously a great deal when it was recently going for $500 here, but now all vendors are back up to around $750. Hoping there's some blow-out sales after the holiday.

 

Matt, I know you got the D5300 primarily for the low light performance. Since you have both the G6 and D5300, can you tell if it's really all that much better? Now that you've got it in your hands and have shot a few things, is it really enough low light performance to justify having both cameras? Or, still too early to tell?

 

I don't think it was that far over exposed, and plenty good enough for going off the LCD. It's actually balanced enough that dropping the exposure in post a bit would be fine. I only added that last bit about exposure because you asked for critique. ;)

 

You've told me that given a choice of one or the other, you'd take the G6 hands down for it's overall usability, etc. Does the D5300 excel in enough areas that justify keeping it as a companion with the G6? Or, if you could easily just hand it back for a refund... would you pass on the D5300 for now?

 

Just found this clip on YouTube shot with the D5300 at 60p. Not pertinent shooting info... but it does looks nice. However, I wouldn't say it looks any better than most of the G6 footage I've seen: 

[Guest c2dd7b52878779b55f43cc8c269267c1]

I don't feel I've spent enough time using it yet to answer properly. I'm beginning to really like it I think. The moire is the only thing that is making me vaguely consider returning it - I never saw any moire from 5200 footage. I can return the camera within 28 days. If I decide the moire isn't a deal breaker I'll be very happy with the camera. I like the form factor, I really like the the image aesthetically, I LOVE how the 3.2" LCD looks with the Z-Finder Jr (and because the Jr is light - using the adhesive mount - the swivel screen is actually sturdy enough to support it and act like an EVF if you're careful), and I love how good it is in low light. I'm very impressed by the dynamic range compared to the G6 too - not something I'd thought about before I got it (I'm not very au-fait with DR comparisons though). I'm finding the image straight out of the camera really quite soft (I need to play with a few more lenses though) but it seems to sharpen up very well in post.

I really hope I don't get too bothered by the moire.

 

I think perspective is important - year ago I was ready to spend $5000 on a 5DMk3, before I'd even heard a whisper about ML RAW. I wanted the low light performance and lack of moire/aliasing. Now we have a camera that is much cheaper and much smaller that shoots 50/60p. 

 

I like that my Nikkor primes fit directly to the mount, but the crazy thing is that, for video, Nikon lenses work better on my G6 with the speed booster than they do on the D5300! The speed booster has a clickless aperture ring that works great with Nikkors (non-manual included), and the G6 has a histogram and focus peaking. The D5300 doesn't have any way to meter accurately, doesn't have peaking, and changing aperture with chipped lenses is a pain in the ****. Nikon are idiotic, basically.

 

So far I really like the camera, but as with every camera it has its weaknesses. This is my list of bugbears:

 

1: No way to meter accurately in full manual mode or with un-chipped lenses (I LIKE HISTOGRAMS!)

2: At this point it looks like there might be more moire than the D5200?

3: Inability to change aperture in live view silliness.

4: Peaking would be awesome - come on Nikon hackers! I'm hoping I can learn to focus accurately through the optical VF for stills - so far my photos have been very hit and miss with my manual glass :(

 

Otherwise, I'm liking it a lot.

 

BTW - are you comparing the D5300 with the G6 alone, or with the speed booster? In my mind they are two very different things. Plus you already having Nikon glass, I'd really recommend the SB.

[Danyyyel]

Thanks matt for the test, you really need to look for it and I personally couldn't see it. Any camera will moire at a certain frequency, at this level I would say it is insignificant.

[skiphunt]

Matt, I really don't see what you're talking about with moire. Can you tell me exactly what you're seeing and at what time mark? It looks fine to me. 

 

Regarding softness, are you sure you don't have a focus problem? Your footage does look a bit soft, but to me it looks slightly out of focus or possibly a back focus problem? Some on dpreview were sending D5300s back for focus issues. Your recent clip looks decent though.

 

Regarding G6, yes... would get a SB, but possibly the cheaper copy-cat one as long as it has the clickless aperture ring. I've since seen plenty of compelling footage from the G6. The image is very good, and with the focus peaking, touch screen, handling, etc. it appears to be almost everything I want. I do think the D5300 may have the potential for a more "filmic" looking image, more DR, and possibly significantly better low light performance. 

 

Also, I don't have that much Nikon glass. Sold off some of it a couple years ago. Just have 3 old Nikkor FF lenses, and 3 Nikon DX lenses. 

 

Very curious about this moire problem you believe you have... I don't see any evidence of that in the full res original download of your most recent clip. Perhaps I'm missing something or this Apple Thunderbolt monitor isn't that great to evaluate on?

[Danyyyel]

Getting nervous about the purchase. Of the professional reviews I've read so far, no one seems to be raving about this camera... and most seem to favor the Canons, while admitting the Nikon has a better image. Thom just published his review of the D5300 today: http://www.dslrbodies.com/cameras/current-nikon-dslr-reviews/nikon-d5300-review.html

 

I think you should put those reviews in perspective. Most of them are just treating it as a simple update to the D5200 because it reads 24 megapixel Apsc camera with GPS and wifi. But for the more knowledgeable user there is quite some difference. The first thing for photo and video is that Nikon fixed the banding issue. None of those review site even know about this.

 

For video you have the benefit of no banding and 60 fps at 1080p which is very nice at least for me. To be able to get a camera that can do slowmotion at 1080p while no Canon does that. The last thing is that the D5300 has easily the best image quality in any Apsc camera. It might not have a touch screen or peaking but pair it with a Ninja and you are close to the Canon C line.

 

The irony is that below 800 Iso the $ 800 D5300 is superior to the highest Canon camera in terms of resolution and dynamic range.

[Danyyyel]

Yes could you tell us at what time you see moire. I couldn't find any looking at the downloaded footage.

[Danyyyel]

Matt do you still have the D5200. If ever it would have been nice to see two shoot of the same high contrast subject at base Iso just to compare the Dynamic range.

[Guest c2dd7b52878779b55f43cc8c269267c1]

Well I'm very pleased you guys aren't seeing any moire! 

 

Partly I wanted to play devils advocate to make sure my own perception wasn't skewed, and partly I think it must be one of those weird perception things where once you see something, it's all you notice. When I got the footage back home and first looked at it, I was really relieved because I couldn't see anything - then I looked again later and saw a bit. After that it was all I could see and I was worried buying the camera was a bad decision! Now you and others have said you're not seeing anything, I'm not seeing it so much! There is a little patterning/flicker in the shadow to the left of the roof at 0:53 (it's very evident if you play it online without going full screen but I think that must be caused by Vimeo's scaling, not the D5300). On the earlier video you can see a similar flicker at 0:58 on the bottom of the chair (this is the worst I've seen it). 

 

It's definately not a back-focusing issue causing the softness because I've only used manual lenses (and I know that 50mm is sharp). Most of the first video I put up was shot wide open, because I wanted to test for low light / ISO noise in the way I would normally shoot in low light. So there is quite a narrow focus plane to those shots (e.g. the cathedral is in focus but the trees in the foreground are not). Also, no sharpening was applied to that video except to the grading test on the cathedral (2nd shot). In the second video (moire test) however, I shot everything at f8 or f11, added a fair dose of contrast, and applied a good amount of sharpening. As I say, I think that the footage that comes directly off the card isn't that sharp (not compared to my G6 with SB anyway), but it does sharpen very nicely in post.

 

As soon as I get the chance I'll go out and try to get some nice footage that isn't technical testing. I think the stuff I shot today is very promising - nice colours, amazing dynamic range (I also want to play with Flaat a bit more) and good detail after sharpening. On a practical level it's also really nice to be able to shoot indoors with ambient lighting without worrying about noise.

[skiphunt]

Matt, looked again... replayed about 10 times and didn't see it at :53. Sure you're not talking about the little bird that flies through the shot, left side of roof in shadow at :54/:55?

 

I do recall sharpening up my D5200 a fair amount in-camera when I had it. Always looked good and never any artifact or over-sharpening halos as long as I didn't go too far. In practice would just sharpen in post. 

 

It's looking good so far. Thanks for testing and feedback! 

[Guest]

Matt do you still have the D5200. If ever it would have been nice to see two shoot of the same high contrast subject at base Iso just to compare the Dynamic range.

I never owned the 5200 I'm afraid … 

Yes I wish someone would do a side-by-side

[skiphunt]

My D5300 late today, but I managed to get a few clips shot. I'm just getting re-acquainted with FCP X, so there's not much done to these except for conforming 60p to 24p. No grading or sharping.

 

First test clips from my D5300. Didn't have much time so I tried to check several things out at once. Wanted to see 1. how the 1080 60p conformed down to 24p 2. How well I could focus on the fly by the LCD 3. how well the lens VR worked to stabilize 4. how it looked with no sharpening or grading

 

I had a D5200 for about a month 2 moanths ago. I can say that although on paper it's not that much smaller or lighter, but it feels significantly smaller and lighter. I like the way it feels in the hands. 

 

It was easier to focus with the new LCD screen, but it's still a bit rough and will require more practice. Definitely doable, but I'd much rather have focus peaking for run/gun stuff. Nailed focus more often than I missed. AF on this camera in video mode is pretty much useless.

 

The colors look good straight out of the camera. This is the Standard color profile with the sharpness 1 notch more than default.

 

Most of the shots where made with the Nikon 18-200 VR lens, and a couple were made with the Nikon 35mm 1.8G. All handheld.

 

I don't have a paid Vimeo account, so I put it on YouTube. Will put it on Vimeo too with downloading enabled.

 

 

[skiphunt]

Here's the Vimeo version. Unfortunately, you can't even download a 1080 version with a free account. Here it is anyway:

 

[skiphunt]

Another thing I noticed about 3rd party batteries and the D5300. Figured because the most recent firmware updates to the D5200 and P7700 compact to make them compatible with the new EN-EL14a battery, made 3rd party batteries useless after the update.

 

I have a couple of normal 3rd party EN-EL14 batteries, one MaximalPower and the other is a no-name generic. Both of these batteries work fine in the D5300. I'm assuming the firmware in the D5300 I received just yesterday is the latest since Nikon doesn't list any D5300 firmware on their site at the moment.

 

Here are the two 3rd party batteries I can confirm work fine with my D5300:

 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0090878BW/ref=oh_details_o05_s00_i01?ie=UTF8&psc=1

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009IESFZQ/ref=oh_details_o03_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[skiphunt]

Second compilation of test clips using the Nikon D5300, standard profile, at 60p with old Nikkor Full-Frame 35-105mm f3.5 lens.

 

Acquainting myself with the new Final Cut Pro X 10.1 as well, so all handheld clips stabilized with default settings, mild grading, vignettes added to last clips, conformed to 23.98, and all slightly sharpened.

 

Vimeo version with download enabled here:

[skiphunt]

I'm not sure why the Vimeo version is only displaying a SD resolution and not even a 720p version like the last one I uploaded. Am replacing the file now, just out of curiosity. 

[Guest]

I'm not sure why the Vimeo version is only displaying a SD resolution and not even a 720p version like the last one I uploaded. Am replacing the file now, just out of curiosity. 

I think basic members can only upload one HD video per week ...

[skiphunt]

I think basic members can only upload one HD video per week ...

Ah! Ok. Vaguely remember that. Been awhile. ;)

 

No matter... I'm about finished with sharing test clips anyway. Just figured I'd upload a 2 or 3 for others considering this camera. I know it was so difficult to find anything to judge it's image quality by, so I thought I'd pay back a little. 

 

Also, trying to figure out a combination that's as minimal as possible for taking on my next travels. Will be carrying backpack so I need to keep it sparse. Carrying a portable audio recorder, Sennheiser ME66, a very compact but sturdy tripod, the D5300, maybe a couple small LED lights with collapsible scrims for basic lighting setups, and just one lens. Will likely just take the 18-200VR since it gives me a good range, macro, seems sharp enough, and the VR actually works fairly well smoothing out handhelds. Just is a bit awkward to manually focus and I can't change f-stop manually with it. 

 

I like the look of the older Nikon glass I just tested, but it won't be practical as my only lens, especially for stills, and no AF for street stuff.

 

This isn't all perfectly ideal, but I think there's enough potential in this setup while also being able to carry it all in my backpack and daypack with the rest of my travel stuff.