New Nikon D5300 with Expeed 4

[Guest]

I've just replaced my Flaat 11 video test with a less compressed file that shows quite a bit more detail. Download the original file for best quality. Grading details in description on Vimeo page:

 

[Danyyyel]

That shot was a very extreme test. I exposed very far to the left to retain info in the highs, and then lifted the shadows - so the low noise of the 5300 contributes to the DR a lot here. There was a LOT of noise in the shadows of that shot (tree) and you can see from the lack of detail in the leaves that they have suffered a lot from noise reduction. I also bumped saturation up in the highs as far as it would go to get that green. So really it's a grading test of Flaat 11. Personally I wouldn't use that shot for critical work. But it's interesting that it was possible, and that the shadows didn't get completely crushed.

 

But having said that, I am finding that I can in general pull a lot of information out of the highlights, which is very nice.

 

I was telling myself that it was really challenging shots to be able to get so nice highlight of the sun and the green leaf in back light. If ever someone wants to get the best I guest an extenal recorder will be needed. The noise structure is much tighter and fine grain with a Ninja with the D7100. But the banding forces you to do noise reduction, but it cleans very very well.

[Vesku]

I've just replaced my Flaat 11 video test with a less compressed file that shows quite a bit more detail. Download the original file for best quality. Grading details in description on Vimeo page:

 

 

Why is there so much noise in this video. Was there dim light? What was iso?

[dahlfors]

I made test charts of GH3 and Nikon5200. Nikon is actually pretty good and moire is minimal. Is 5300 sharper than 5200?

 

http://www.personal-view.com/talks/discussion/5118/nikon-d5200-topic/p24

 

Nikon horizontal lines with 30% contrast difference: about 700 and GH3 about 850.

 

I cant load any photos here in this forum. I dont know why.

 

Indeed the GH3 resolves finer detail in the slashcam test. 

[skiphunt]

Here's some D5300 test clips under artificial fluorescent at the mall. Used a 18-200 DX VR lens. Not my sharpest lens, but the VR makes handheld tolerable.

 

[RRRoger]

Did your D5300 arrive yet?! :) If so, have your tried the external recording, etc. yet? 

 

Yes but I lost this thread untill today three weeks later.

 

You won't be sorry if you get one. I am still finding more things I like about it.

 

There are things like controls and less DOF that make my D800 better for Video with 1080P at 24 or 30 fps better.

And there are things like faster AutoFocus and more DOF that make the V1 better, especially when using the PowerZoom.

 

Contrary to Andrews view, I think the D5300 is better in every way than the D5200.

Same Sensor, maybe, but tweeked for more performance.

Expeed 4 enables all kinds of improvements, for example:

Much better high ISO for stills and Video

I now have mine set for AUTO 25,600

The Videos in low light at 12,800 are comparable very clean

As for out of the camera, the 1080P 60 files played back at the same speed as the 1080P 30 at even 3200 ISO

which is pretty much the limit for the  V1 and 6400 ISO for the D800.

The D5300 wins easily.

 

Now about using an external recorder.

It is not clean with the V1

The D800 has the advantage of clean HDMI output while displaying all the controls.

So far, I am only able to record 1080i at 59.94 with my D5300 on the Ninja II and the results are terrible in my eyes.

The internal to card at 1080P 60 are about 4 times better.

I am waiting for the Odyssey 7 to record longer than 10 minutes at a clip.

I have externally recorded 1080P 30 for up 90 minutes with DNxHD 36, but these are about half as good as the 1080P recordings to SD card.

I just got a Meike D5200 grip that fits perfectly. It and the camera accepts two higher powered Vivitar batteries.

These should enable up to 4 hours recording or more if hot swapable.

During recording, I can adjust the Aperture in Manual Mode by pressing the +/- while spinning the wheel.

 

 

[Guest]

Why is there so much noise in this video. Was there dim light? What was iso?

 

That's film grain added in post. Please see grading details on Vimeo page. The low contrast profile of Flaat reveals noise in shadows even at low iso's, so you have to apply noise reduction to most clips. This can give the images a slightly smooth, artificial look. Film grain helps put a bit of texture back in. And personally I like the look. 

[Guest]

Indeed the GH3 resolves finer detail in the slashcam test. 

 

Anyone care to explain the relevance of this? We've established Panasonic cameras have great resolution.

 

The GH3 has other deficiencies though. Personally I'd choose the D5300 over the GH3. Better colours, better dynamic range, better low light, good detail with sharpening, less moire. The GH3 is more user-friendly, but the 5300 is fine to use (I actually really like the way it handles, and the large LCD is amazing with a Z-Finder). What's the best thing about the GH3? The Speed Booster, which is Nikon mount, so lens choice is going to be the same there. And low light performance still isn't going to match the 5300. In terms of latitude for grading, I'd say they are probably on par. I can tell you the 5300 is a pleasure to grade compared to my G6. DR looks better on my 5300 straight out of camera than any graded GH3 clips I've seen, as are colours, so grading isn't as important in comparison.

 

I don't want to start a fanboy battle, but I'd like to know if resolution is really so important to you guys that you're prepared to ignore all of the other stuff?

[Aussie Ash]

Hi Matt

   Glad you like your 5300 .I am pretty happy with mine too ,

high quality of the still photos it is capable of taking is a bonus too.

Have you played around with any sort of "follow focus" ?

I am using AFD lens with manual focus and just using focus marks

on sticky tape.

[Guest]

Hi Matt

   Glad you like your 5300 .I am pretty happy with mine too ,

high quality of the still photos it is capable of taking is a bonus too.

Have you played around with any sort of "follow focus" ?

I am using AFD lens with manual focus and just using focus marks

on sticky tape.

I like to keep my rig as small as possible so I don't use a follow focus. I have mostly AI-s glass, which all has the same beautiful focus mechanism, so I'm happy using that. The z-finder Jr helps a lot with achieving good focus first attempt (though I'm not that practiced at it yet). One thing I'm loving is that (using the adhesive clip-on frame with the z-finder jr on the D5300) the axel on the swivel screen is quite strong and the Jr is quite light, so I can hold the camera low and against my body (much more stable) and, with the screen turned out and up, look down into the z-finder. I may post a photo of this setup as it's really working well for me.

Nikon are supposedly releasing a focus assist that I might get (called NAL-1), but I haven't seen it for sale yet.

 

FYI: I've carefully put a small piece of electrical tape over the contacts on the lens mount of my 35mm f2 AF-D, which allows me to use the aperture ring (I assume the 5300 wants you to lock your AFD lens to f22 when attached too?). This allows you to change aperture while recording. Though you loose metering.

[skiphunt]

That's film grain added in post. Please see grading details on Vimeo page. The low contrast profile of Flaat reveals noise in shadows even at low iso's, so you have to apply noise reduction to most clips. This can give the images a slightly smooth, artificial look. Film grain helps put a bit of texture back in. And personally I like the look. 

 

I like the look too Matt. At some point, I think people should take off the pixel peeping googles and start evaluating, and crafting images based solely on aesthetic taste. 

 

It's fine to try and figure out what your tools are capable of, and whether or not they can deliver the look you're after via grading, etc. But after you've figured out if the tool is capable enough, it's time to focus on the artistic part. 

 

On pretty much all of the camera enthusiast sites, you read post after post that imply some users get stuck in eval mode... they can't see anything other than noise, corner focus, dynamic range, resolution, moire, etc. I do the same thing, but try to recognize when it's time to just start using the tools with the knowledge you've gained in the testing phase, i.e. "This camera's noise is acceptable to me up to about 3200, so I need to make lens and lighting decisions to compensate." or, "This camera tends toward a softer image, so I need to use the sharpest glass I have, and plan on a little sharpening in post when needed." etc.

[Wild Ranger]

I think that the D5300 must be resolving equal to the D7100, in my perspective. I Have a D7100 and it resolve very nice sharp detail: 

[skiphunt]

I think that the D5300 must be resolving equal to the D7100, in my perspective. I Have a D7100 and it resolve very nice sharp detail: 

>

 

 

Some Shot may look a little soft than other, I was trying different picture profiles at that time.

At the beginning i used The Flaat profiles but after started using in camera and i got better results, In my opinion, using the Standard profile with all contrast down and 1 notch of sharpening( yes 1, not 0) ;) trust me, it gives nice detail image. The in camera sharpening is very subtle but add some of that "don't know how to describe it" perception of a more structured image.  

[dahlfors]

 

I wonder if there's any Nikon mount zoom, that gives me the range of 18-200 including macro with good image stabilization and AF, but is significantly sharper? I was starting to just think the D5300's image was a bit too soft, but now that I've compared to other glass... it's clear that my 18-200 isn't quite up to snuff.

 

This is the sacrifice you make with these long zoom range lenses. 18-200, 18-300 - I think both of them have roughly the same performance. There's a 28-300mm that covers full frame, but personally I wouldn't bother with it either of these. I've shot with the 18-200 once and I immediately learnt that it isn't the lens for me, however practical it might be to cover that range in one lens.

 

Hence, my budget recommendation that would cover the 18-200 range:

- 18-55mm kit lens with VR and 55-200mm with VR. This combination will be sharper, and the 18-55 has very close focusing (near macro) capabilities. The 18-55 can be found for ~50 euro used, probably around $50-70 USD in the states. Due to that low price I bought one a few years ago just for closeup shots. The combination of these two lenses is still very compact and lightweight.

 

Another interesting recommendation:

- Tamron 24-70 f/2.8 with image stabilisation, as well as the 70-300 VR. Both of these lenses cover full frame too. A bit more expensive choice. With this choice you can use larger aperture in normal range and gain 100mm reach at the longer.

 

These alternatives are sharper and perform better than 18-200 at most if not all focal lengths. To tell the truth, in my 5 years shooting with Nikon glass, I don't think I've shot anything less sharp than the 18-200.

[Wild Ranger]

That all looks very good to me. What lenses are you using primarily? Just just did a couple more quick tests (not worth uploading) and was checking the sharpness of my 18-200 VR DX lens compared to an old Nikkor 135 FF f2 and my Nikkor 50mm 1.8D. The 18-200 DX VR 3.5-5.6 simply isn't that sharp. It's decent, but the other lenses are noticeably sharper. 

 

Problem is, I was really hoping the 18-200 would be closer to the others because it's VR engaged really helps quite a bit for handheld. 

 

I wonder if there's any Nikon mount zoom, that gives me the range of 18-200 including macro with good image stabilization and AF, but is significantly sharper? I was starting to just think the D5300's image was a bit too soft, but now that I've compared to other glass... it's clear that my 18-200 isn't quite up to snuff.

 

PS. Never mind on which lenses you used... just saw them listed in the comments on your vimeo page

 

Thanks! I like this camera, but after seeing the fixes that the D5300 has on IQ, I'im starting to consider a change. the FPN really holds you down when exposing in some situations. In other side i might wait if there is some "D7200" coming with the same fixes ;)

[Michiel78]

I think that the D5300 must be resolving equal to the D7100, in my perspective. I Have a D7100 and it resolve very nice sharp detail: 

>

 

[Michiel78]

I've just replaced my Flaat 11 video test with a less compressed file that shows quite a bit more detail. Download the original file for best quality. Grading details in description on Vimeo page.

Hey Matt, very nice video. Deep and beautiful colors. Is it me or does the footage (especially where you're panning over the leaves) have some sort of wobbly/wavy feeling. I think its the FCPX stabilization but could you please confirm this?

[Wild Ranger]

Amazing footage with an truly cinematic feel to it. Did you use any rig or monopods or dolly's to get this stable footage?

Tripod my friend, the old fashion classic tripod :)

[Danyyyel]

I like the look too Matt. At some point, I think people should take off the pixel peeping googles and start evaluating, and crafting images based solely on aesthetic taste. 

 

It's fine to try and figure out what your tools are capable of, and whether or not they can deliver the look you're after via grading, etc. But after you've figured out if the tool is capable enough, it's time to focus on the artistic part. 

 

On pretty much all of the camera enthusiast sites, you read post after post that imply some users get stuck in eval mode... they can't see anything other than noise, corner focus, dynamic range, resolution, moire, etc. I do the same thing, but try to recognize when it's time to just start using the tools with the knowledge you've gained in the testing phase, i.e. "This camera's noise is acceptable to me up to about 3200, so I need to make lens and lighting decisions to compensate." or, "This camera tends toward a softer image, so I need to use the sharpest glass I have, and plan on a little sharpening in post when needed." etc.

 

I am all for that, looking at endless discussion etc about pixel peeping is exhausting. But unfortunately non of the testers seem to be interested to give proper test for the D5300. If someone did a proper test with some resolution chart, dynamic range step chart, noise etc. at least we could pass on tech and concentrate on the more artistic side. The only reason I am interested with the D5300 as a D7100 user was the 60p and banding. If the D5300 has about same resolution than D7100, as good DR/lowlight, with good 60p and without banding. I will surely buy it. Hopefully it will be possible to get to record the hdmi output with a Ninja and even not ideal, a little noise will make the 8 bit more than good.

 

It seems that nowadays it is all about technical sheet with nothing interesting to reviewers if it is not RAW or 4k. For me a D7100 minus banding and added 60p for $ 800, is good enough. Things like a good eye and lighting will make a much better impact than RAW and 4k, once you get to this good enough level. More so that I would have to give up image sensor size or practical workflow to get those RAW camera or moire/aliasing etc. There is a thread here about someone asking for storage solution for working in RAW and the cheapest solution was some $ 700 raid system. The cost will add so much that you need to add thousand of dollar more for very little gain, if you don't have good shooting and grading skill.

 

For now we are just explorers who think that we have some gem or good enough camera and only these test will show if we are not just some fools because we are looking at this camera. The day we have something like DXOmark for video that all these nerd discussion will be resolved. Nowadays it has really become the standard at least for sensor/image performance and no need of endless discussion about which one is better etc.

[Danyyyel]

I think the Nikon 18-140 has some reviews as a good all purpose zoom lens. It would be nice if you could post some test scene with the different lens, because it could show if the D5300 is soft or not. You know all these first images tend to stick to a camera. Many people tend to conclude things a bit too rapidly. Hey its a Nikon so it is not good at video while today the Nikon dslr are much better than there Canons one and you would need a $ 3500 canon 5d3 with RAW hack to get better images.