Administrators Andrew Reid Posted December 2, 2013 Administrators Share Posted December 2, 2013 I think the reason many here expected a review of the D5300 is because you where one of the people that showed the capability of the D5200 to the film community. Until now it is still the reference to show the fantastic low light capability of the Nikon D5200 that rivals the $ 3500 5dmark3 full frame camera which itself is hailed as a very very good low light camera. Now you have told us that you don't want to review it and I respect your opinion because it is your site and your time and you can decide your priorities. I will just tell you why I am interested in this camera, it might just be for the sake of discussion and comprehension. I am not in anyway trying to convince or confront you. When I reviewed the D5200 it was indeed the best camera for the money in terms of low light performance. Not any more. The Pocket Cinema Camera with Nikon mount BMPCC Speed Booster is. A lot has changed since last year. D5300 is a known quantity. It's a D5200. With 1080/60p. Same image. Same features. I already tried one out earlier in the thread and closely compared the codec and image with the D5200 and convinced it's the same. What more do you want? It just doesn't excite me. There's now a big gulf in image quality between cameras like this and cameras like the BMCC / Pocket with ProRes or 5D Mark III with raw. The D5300 isn't even that hot as a video all-rounder. The GH3 and G6 have better features. That's my opinion. You can take it or leave it. D5300 might make sense for some of you. I can accept that. You are all welcome to talk about the D5300 here, analyse it, that's what the forum is for. But please no more dragging the thread off track by lambasting me for having a different opinion or different focus on the blog. I shouldn't have to take crap from people for not validating your potential purchase and not singing the praises of Nikon when actually they're not really offering anything significantly new. When they have something genuinely a leap forward from their old model I will buy one and use it, then there will be an article. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danyyyel Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 Just to make the life of us Nikonians a little more difficult, but please watch this film by Johnnie from Cinema5D, the 70D Although you get no Nikon-stills, and probably moire, aliasing and mushy codec... but I really like the organic/cinematic quality of this handheld shooting, although he probably filmed it during the Golden Hour, but... AF seems a big step upward, considering you don't especially need a rig or follow focus for runandgun shoots anymore... I really was thinking about getting a D5200 or 5300, but then I need new lenses and I'm tempted to buy the Ninja 2 as well (if you got clean HDMI out, you might as well use it, although no more small signature shooting then)... but since I already have a Canon 24-105/f4 L lens as well as a Sigma 30mm prime, wouldn't be the 70D a better choice? Anyone seen a similar great looking D7100/D5300 film yet? Just look at this test between the D7100/70D at about 17.50 min on moire/aliasing between the two. I think it is telling. You cannot get more organic than a hippie style community shot during golden hour LOL. I think the reviewer himself shot some other video and he was a bit critical about the moire/aliasing and low resolution image. For me one of the secret of the Alexa vaunted film look is the highlight roll-off. Many have speculated and analyse that Arri hss put a diffusion filter like the tiffen promist filter before the sensor. There are many thread on reduser forum about this and I have bought a 1/4 promist to test it. I would have preferred a 1/8 but I got a very good price on a used one on Ebay. I wanted the lowest number because I don't want the filtered look too much. Just a little bit seems to make wonders but in the process you loose some resolution. At least with the higher resolution Nikons I can afford it for a much more film like image. Some good resources http://www.hurlbutvisuals.com/blog/2012/06/diffusion-for-the-digital-age-the-use-of-glass-filtration/ skiphunt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danyyyel Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 Just read his comment where he says that the image is extremely soft, noisy and moire/aliasing is everywhere with the 70d. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skiphunt Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 Just read his comment where he says that the image is extremely soft, noisy and moire/aliasing is everywhere with the 70d. I'm looking forward to what Johnnie Behiri at Cinema5D.com does with the D5300. From what I've seen so far, he does very good and seemingly unbiased reviews on gear there. And, it appears from the viewpoint of a budget minded indie filmmaker/journalists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skiphunt Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 When I reviewed the D5200 it was indeed the best camera for the money in terms of low light performance. Not any more. The Pocket Cinema Camera with Nikon mount BMPCC Speed Booster is. A lot has changed since last year. D5300 is a known quantity. It's a D5200. With 1080/60p. Same image. Same features. I already tried one out earlier in the thread and closely compared the codec and image with the D5200 and convinced it's the same. What more do you want? It just doesn't excite me. There's now a big gulf in image quality between cameras like this and cameras like the BMCC / Pocket with ProRes or 5D Mark III with raw. The D5300 isn't even that hot as a video all-rounder. The GH3 and G6 have better features. That's my opinion. You can take it or leave it. D5300 might make sense for some of you. I can accept that. You are all welcome to talk about the D5300 here, analyse it, that's what the forum is for. But please no more dragging the thread off track by lambasting me for having a different opinion or different focus on the blog. I shouldn't have to take crap from people for not validating your potential purchase and not singing the praises of Nikon when actually they're not really offering anything significantly new. When they have something genuinely a leap forward from their old model I will buy one and use it, then there will be an article. "Lambasting" you for having a different opinion? "Take crap for not validating..." Seriously? Where do you see that? The poster you just quoted even went over board telling you he respects your opinion and isn't trying to "convince or confront you"? I think pretty much everyone here knows very well that you aren't interested in any way shape or form, in the D5300. And very aware that your opinion is that it's not an interesting option. Well, sorry... but some of us haven't come to the same conclusion and don't yet share your opinion on this. And, if you include stills performance as a feature defining an "all-rounder", I'm sorry but the GH3 and G6 don't quite stack up in that arena. Just reread several posts, and I'm quite baffled at how you think anyone here is giving you any crap or disrespecting you in any way. If anything, it's the opposite. We all have a good deal of respect for your opinion. Otherwise, no one would ask for it or even visit this site. You have to accept that some people, with different needs than yours, are going to sometimes disagree with your opinion. I can't speak for everyone here, but it appears that most of us have accepted that you don't share our interest in the D5300 and likely never will. And, I think we've moved on from even expecting any actual data-based critical discourse from you at all on the matter. I know I sure have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danyyyel Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 Nikon USA are slowly waking up to the potential of video which is good to see http://cinema.nikonusa.com/blog/ I think they are very interested, they were the first to uncompressed 422 hdmi output (no need for hack) with the D4 and D800. They heavily promoted the D800 at its launch with the video of the guy on a bike. They had a hollywood production on it and some were saying it was in the half a million dollar budget in Chicago. I think there problem now is that they have there $ 800/1200 model outclassing there $ 3000 camera. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danyyyel Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 When I reviewed the D5200 it was indeed the best camera for the money in terms of low light performance. Not any more. The Pocket Cinema Camera with Nikon mount BMPCC Speed Booster is. Again not to be confrontational at all and for the sake of discussion over and above brand. The reason I came here is because you are reviewing video dslr and camera in the affordable range to small or no budget filmmakers. I think you made a big improvement in your testing with the 13 stop scene (with the film camera etc) for the 5dmark3 and kineraw camera. The standardisation makes people get a better idea of each camera and you would gain a lot from doing the same thing for each camera beside any brand etc. From the 70d to the Panasonic gh3 etc It would be like what photo reviewing site like Dpreview do. Test that are sorely missed in the video camera world. Like what I quoted above, how much is what everybody want to see. Is the raw/prores size etc warranted for the budget and disk size needed compared to h264 cameras like the gh3/d5300/70d etc. With time you would get a sizeable database that believe me you would become the 'to go' site for the vast range of large sensor camera users. I take the example of the c100/c300 $ 6.5k-12000 camera that everybody dismissed on internet forum because of its native low bitrate and 8 bit image. Camera that have wipe the floor in the Docu and small film production. The Canne film festival winner was shot on a 8 bit Canon C300!!!! What people like us are just searching are empirical data to compare which camera is good enough for what we need. I take your word about the speed booster Bmcc camera being superior to the D5200/D5300 but by how much is what is important for many. Is the 2 or 3 time investment worth it. A BMcc with a speed booster is $ 1500 and you have to add at least an external monitor because the screen is crap and also use top of the line SD card. I hope I don't sound confrontational but believe me this is what sorely missed on the video world about test of every camera brand like on photo website. And your last test is heading in this way but even if some promising ones like the RX10 looks more like dud now it is important for people too chose. One of the poster here was really interested on either the Sony Rx10 and D5300 for a project that needed a small camera, used in difficult and even dangerous situation. At least now he knows what to expect from the Sony Rx10 which was on paper a perfect choice for an all in one solution but now not so much because of the final image quality. If I was ready to go raw, for me perhaps the perfect camera for my budget would be the Kineraw Mini because of your test. I never thought about this camera before. An apsc camera with 13 stop DR and no moire/aliasing (Reason I won't go BM for now), would be my choice because of your review. Things like these are the reason why aspiring film-makers need those side by side empirical test, we never know what will be coming out of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danyyyel Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 Does the wifi has any use for video? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danyyyel Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 For a youtube video the horse Looks very sharp and the building also is very nice in tonality etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest c2dd7b52878779b55f43cc8c269267c1 Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 For a youtube video the horse Looks very sharp and the building also is very nice in tonality etc. Saw this yesterday too. Thought exactly the same thing about the horse. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest c2dd7b52878779b55f43cc8c269267c1 Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 Can't tell too much from this but not seeing any banding. Toby usually does decent reviews so hopefully we might get one soon. He's been very helpful when I've asked questions in the past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted December 3, 2013 Administrators Share Posted December 3, 2013 I just did a quick explore of low light between the D5200 and new Panasonic GM1. The GM1 actually is now on par with the D5200 in low light at ISO 1600 and 3200. An improvement on GH3 to say the least! It's also just as cheap. It resolves more detail, has a more flexible lens mount and is more feature packed. The small size is slightly crazy but I highly recommend it. For those undecided on D5300 check it out. With the MFT Speed Booster on this thing you will be getting a D5200 bettering image for sure. Michiel78 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skiphunt Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 Just found this on Thom Hogan's site regarding the D5300 and Df sensors: http://www.dslrbodies.com/newsviews/sensor-changes.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skiphunt Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 @Matt... dang you for putting that Pana G6 w/metabones idea in my head! ;) Been reading up on the G6 and am thinking your suggestion was a fairly good one. The samples I'v seen between the D5200 and G6 look as if the D5200 out resolves it and the D5200 just looks tighter and better at high-ISO. However, the user reports rave about this G6 and say it's no comparison. Sure wish I could find more definitive info on the D5300... but the G6 metabones combo you suggested has definitely piqued my interest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted December 3, 2013 Administrators Share Posted December 3, 2013 Why don't you go into a store, stick a memory card in a D5300 and see if it is any good? I did it. Took 10 minutes. It really ain't that hot. Consider the G6, BMPCC, Speed Booster, GM1, RX10, GH2 and last year's D5200 instead. That's my last advice for this thread. Have fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skiphunt Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 Only one shop in town has it in stock, and I know I'm not buying from them... so I can't just go and test if I know they aren't getting my business. Personal ethics I guess. I was impressed with the D5200's resolution and felt the image up to 6400 was quite usable from the test clips I made during the month I had it. I also thought it did a remarkable job with stills. Was actually more or less satisfied with it only I wanted 60p too. The GH6 and metabones option is interesting though. When reviews between the D5200 and G6 claim they're very close... I don't see it. Could be bad test footage, but what I see from the D5200, just looks to have much better low light and resolution performance. What am I missing? @Matt... you offered to send me a password to see some of your G6 footage. Would like to see some if you don't mind shooting me a private message. Do you have any using the metabones adaptor with Nikon glass in low light? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest c2dd7b52878779b55f43cc8c269267c1 Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 The GM1 actually is now on par with the D5200 in low light at ISO 1600 and 3200. An improvement on GH3 to say the least! ... With the MFT Speed Booster on this thing you will be getting a D5200 bettering image for sure. These two sentences have just boggled my mind. GM1 hasn't been on my radar at all - I took one look at that camera and walked on by. Will check it out. Can't believe video mode is going to be good enough though ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest c2dd7b52878779b55f43cc8c269267c1 Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 The GM1 actually is now on par with the D5200 in low light at ISO 1600 and 3200. An improvement on GH3 to say the least! Do you know if this is also true for the GX7? I can't bring myself to buy a mirrorless camera without an EVF. GX7 also looks *slightly* more video orientated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michiel78 Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 GM1 sample, looks on par with the RX10 I think (great resolution and sharpness, but again not that cinematic quality I seek in a camera) On the plus side: the optional benefit of being able to switch lenses... so you'd have more options in lowlight than the RX10 especially with the Speedbooster... Andrew, could you confirm it has only 50i in fullHD? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted December 3, 2013 Administrators Share Posted December 3, 2013 It has 24p and 25p in full HD not just 50i. I have my review coming, it's a pretty special camera and you will see why shortly :) Michiel78 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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