skiphunt Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 Haven't abandoned the D5300 since I haven't found anyone reviewing it from the aesthetic of a cinematic perspective. And, there are a few users complaining about focussing issues. The D5200 I tested for a month was capable of very good stills and spectacular lowlight video. However, I can't say it was a pleasure to use. I'm after the best low-end, low-light image I can get (under $1000) and the D5300 would likely deliver. However, this idea of a MFT G6/GH3 with MB has me more than intrigued. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted December 3, 2013 Administrators Share Posted December 3, 2013 True the D5300 isn't great ergonomically. Not being able to change the aperture in live view is a pain. Not many dedicated buttons either. ISO for example requires you to program it to a function key and then press the key AND rotate the dial to change. Archaic. I am sure Nikon stills shooters are used to this kind of thing but I just find it a pain. Watch out for a shootout on EOSHD tomorrow... GM1, GH3, G6, D5200, Blackmagic Pocket, RX100M2 all in it head to head. It will surprise you. skiphunt and Michiel78 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoodlum Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 True the D5300 isn't great ergonomically. Not being able to change the aperture in live view is a pain. Not many dedicated buttons either. ISO for example requires you to program it to a function key and then press the key AND rotate the dial to change. Archaic. I am sure Nikon stills shooters are used to this kind of thing but I just find it a pain. Watch out for a shootout on EOSHD tomorrow... GM1, GH3, G6, D5200, Blackmagic Pocket, RX100M2 all in it head to head. It will surprise you. What about including the RX10 for this comparison? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikkor Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 True the D5300 isn't great ergonomically. Not being able to change the aperture in live view is a pain. Not many dedicated buttons either. ISO for example requires you to program it to a function key and then press the key AND rotate the dial to change. Archaic. I am sure Nikon stills shooters are used to this kind of thing but I just find it a pain. Pressing button + rotate wheel?, it's like that on all cameras that don't have a classic stlye iso wheel (you know, like the speed wheels), at least on the canons and nikons I have tried or own. The d5300 just has the cheapo body. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest c2dd7b52878779b55f43cc8c269267c1 Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 True the D5300 isn't great ergonomically. Not being able to change the aperture in live view is a pain. Not many dedicated buttons either. ISO for example requires you to program it to a function key and then press the key AND rotate the dial to change. Archaic. I am sure Nikon stills shooters are used to this kind of thing but I just find it a pain. Watch out for a shootout on EOSHD tomorrow... GM1, GH3, G6, D5200, Blackmagic Pocket, RX100M2 all in it head to head. It will surprise you. This is good news! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest c2dd7b52878779b55f43cc8c269267c1 Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 The first really nice footage I've found shot with the D5300: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skiphunt Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 The first really nice footage I've found shot with the D5300: Well... that looks pretty good to me from an $800 camera in low light. All the fine lines appear to be resolving very well and the subtleties of the twilight colors appear to be rendering nicely. Do you think the G6/GH3 would resolve the fine detail and pastel twilight as well as is exhibited in this video? I sure wish someone would loan Andrew a D5300 for his shootout instead of the D5200. Haven't seen that much from the D5300 yet, but so far it appears it may not exactly be a D5200 with 60p. Looks like there were some changes made with the sensor that could be considered improvements. All speculative still. Though, I have to admit... from the descriptions I've read of the way the G6/GH3 handles, along with the lens mount flexibility of MFT, it sounds like those little G6's are considerably more pleasant to work with. Yet, I have yet to see fine detail resolving power in any of the G6/GH3 clips I've seen online... except perhaps the video Andrew did between the G6/GH3. That video, especially in the exterior church detail shots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest c2dd7b52878779b55f43cc8c269267c1 Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 Well... that looks pretty good to me from an $800 camera in low light. All the fine lines appear to be resolving very well and the subtleties of the twilight colors appear to be rendering nicely. Do you think the G6/GH3 would resolve the fine detail and pastel twilight as well as is exhibited in this video? I sure wish someone would loan Andrew a D5300 for his shootout instead of the D5200. Haven't seen that much from the D5300 yet, but so far it appears it may not exactly be a D5200 with 60p. Looks like there were some changes made with the sensor that could be considered improvements. All speculative still. Though, I have to admit... from the descriptions I've read of the way the G6/GH3 handles, along with the lens mount flexibility of MFT, it sounds like those little G6's are considerably more pleasant to work with. Yet, I have yet to see fine detail resolving power in any of the G6/GH3 clips I've seen online... except perhaps the video Andrew did between the G6/GH3. That video, especially in the exterior church detail shots. Pretty sure the GH3 won't give such nice colours in low light. Not sure about the G6 - it's colours are good but probably not the same as the 52/5300. The 52/5300 is certainly better than the BMPCC at colours in low light (the BM might give very little noise with the speed booster but it sure looks dull as hell). In colour terms I'm sure the 5300 will be exactly the same as the 5200 (though a Ninja may change that) - I really think the 5200 will be fine as a stand-in for the 5300 in Andrew's tests on all fronts. I'm pretty sure it's the same sensor. Just ignore any comments about banding. This is my thinking at the moment: Like you, I was first drawn to the idea of getting a 5200 after seeing Brandon's stuff. Technical performance on paper is one thing, but I reckon if I liked that look I should probably just go with my gut. The video above has really nice colours, and when I first watched it I thought of some of Brandon's twilight shots. Colour rendition in low light is something we haven't discussed here really. I think the Nikons probably win there by a long stretch - that matters to me. I have Nikon manual glass with aperture rings, so the Nikon video aperture thing isn't a problem for me. Because I've sold my Canon stuff, I'm also lacking a really decent stills camera. I'm going to wait and see what Andrew says about the GM1 tomorrow (I assume it'll just be that the GM1 with speed booster 'outperforms' everything else in low light - though handling and possibly colour rendition will probably make it a no-no for me. And if it's that you can put a BM speed booster on it I'll feel the same). But bar some extraordinary revelation I'm pretty certain I'm going for the 5300. I just like the way it looks. I'm surprised you're not finding the resolution of the Panasonics better though. It's always hard to judge online, but I always find them to be by far the sharpest of the low-bitrate cameras. Personally I think the video above looks quite soft (which I mainly put down to compression and him using a kit lens for some of it). Can't you ask that store you want to buy the camera from to get one in for you? Perhaps even a G6 and a 5300 to compare? A lot of shops here would do that. :unsure: skiphunt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michiel78 Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 I'm surprised you're not finding the resolution of the Panasonics better though. It's always hard to judge online, but I always find them to be by far the sharpest of the low-bitrate cameras. Personally I think the video above looks quite soft (which I mainly put down to compression and him using a kit lens for some of it). I agree with you. Pannys look incredibly sharp... and this D5300 is soft. While I don't like an image to be too sharp, I find this D5300 footage too soft. I've heard some other (photographic) reviewers note that the Nikon kit lens is not good enough for the sensor by far... furthermore, most shots are wide so it's more difficult to assess sharpness as opposed to close/ups. The night footage looks better, perhaps due to his use of the 35mm prime? Although I don't really like the sharp Panny look, I'm very curious what Andrew can deliver with the MB adapter... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest c2dd7b52878779b55f43cc8c269267c1 Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 Although I don't really like the sharp Panny look, I'm very curious what Andrew can deliver with the MB adapter... IMHO the sharpness of the Lumix cameras is only unpleasant when using MFT glass. With FF/legacy glass (and especially coupled with a speed booster) the high resolution is wonderful. Michiel78 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest c2dd7b52878779b55f43cc8c269267c1 Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 The night footage looks better, perhaps due to his use of the 35mm prime? I thought exactly the same thing. Michiel78 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skiphunt Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 The video above has really nice colours, and when I first watched it I thought of some of Brandon's twilight shots. Colour rendition in low light is something we haven't discussed here really. I think the Nikons probably win there by a long stretch - that matters to me. I'm surprised you're not finding the resolution of the Panasonics better though. It's always hard to judge online, but I always find them to be by far the sharpest of the low-bitrate cameras. Personally I think the video above looks quite soft (which I mainly put down to compression and him using a kit lens for some of it). Can't you ask that store you want to buy the camera from to get one in for you? Perhaps even a G6 and a 5300 to compare? A lot of shops here would do that. :unsure: I thought the same thing regarding Brandon's 5D3 twilight shots. It's not that I don't find the Panasonics sharp, it's just that fine lines, like the cables in the referenced video above (about a minute in) shows that it holds fine detail resolution well. The Panasonic footage, though sharp looking... doesn't appear to hang on to the finer details as well. The place I want to buy from is a big-box store. They show all of these cameras "sold out", but I think it's basically BS because they want to clear out as many of other models during the holidays as they can first. Though, they do have the 70D in plenty of stock... so, I'm not sure what's up with Nikon and Panny stuff. They have plenty GH3s and D5200s, so I'm guessing they're trying to blow as many of those out as possible. I really don't know. Didn't want to get into why I'm trying to buy from a particular store, but my wife is getting it for me as a birthday present. She wants to put it on Best Buy account, for the reward points, and the fact I get 45 days to return, as well as 18mos no interest. ;) If I was buying it myself, I'd likely already have something in hand. Though, I don't really need it immediately anyway. I'll need a good week or so to get acquainted with it, and maybe a short shake-out trip to make sure it's going to do the job on the longer trip. Would just like to get something in hand to start familiarizing myself with by the first of the year. Looking forward to Andrew's shootout and will likely make a decision based off that. Truth be told, ultimately... any of the cited options mentioned in this thread would be within my stated parameters and would likely work just fine for my needs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest c2dd7b52878779b55f43cc8c269267c1 Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 While I don't like an image to be too sharp, I find this D5300 footage too soft. I've heard some other (photographic) reviewers note that the Nikon kit lens is not good enough for the sensor by far... furthermore, most shots are wide so it's more difficult to assess sharpness as opposed to close/ups. The night footage looks better, perhaps due to his use of the 35mm prime? If you go to the video's Vimeo page, in the comments he has linked to a download of a short full-res shot. There's lots of annoying autofocus, but in the focused bits you can clearly see the footage is very sharp, the noise looks very pleasant and I can't see any aliasing. This shot is at 1250 ISO. Michiel78 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danyyyel Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 I really think the 5200 will be fine as a stand-in for the 5300 in Andrew's tests on all fronts. I'm pretty sure it's the same sensor. Just ignore any comments about banding. You see that is why you should never assume anything until side by side test from anyone. The sensor are different and it is easy to see http://***URL removed***/forums/thread/3561765 . So assuming that they are the same by people that don't want to make the effort to test is never good. When you think about it the D5200 might be the shortest lived Nikon camera and this will render its test useless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danyyyel Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 Again I have posted it many times... http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?310503-Nikon-D7100-vs-Panasonic-gh2-sharpness A test I did between my gh2 and D7100. Just browse it and see how many did not commit and many got it wrong because the two are very close. I am fed up assuming pseudo testers that take two minutes to test Nikon cameras and some laughable example like philip bloom test of the D4/D800 in a crowded bar in New york. Can you do a more dump test where every second the lighting can change. In the case of the D7100 every of those expert just assumed that the D7100 just a D5200 in video mode while many user report said that the D7100 was sharper than the D5200. I don't know by how much but I sold my gh2 after this test to buy an Atomos Ninja and again a gain in resolution with tighter grain so better resolution and detail that cleaned even better with Neatimage video the banding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danyyyel Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 Someone of dvxuser posted these two sample from Canon 5d3 and Nikon D5300 at 100 ISO. I don't know the specifics but the D5300 looks to have much better DR than the 5d3. One thing looks bizar that that it seems to have like a fix noise in the deepest shadows on the monitor stand. It is not FPN (The 5d3 has vertical FPN) but like a pattern that stays the same. Could be VLC? https://disk.yandex.com/public/?hash=Le4Ee3Biq/a3jOphlYhqqvWPKrkIIj3Z7MAvPZbJ%2BME%3D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest c2dd7b52878779b55f43cc8c269267c1 Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 You see that is why you should never assume anything until side by side test from anyone. The sensor are different and it is easy to see http://***URL removed***/forums/thread/3561765 . So assuming that they are the same by people that don't want to make the effort to test is never good. When you think about it the D5200 might be the shortest lived Nikon camera and this will render its test useless. I've seen these images comparing the sensors many times. I don't think the fact they look different means anything. It could be the same sensor in different housing. My guess is that it is the same Toshiba sensor with some changes by Nikon. See Thom Hogan's post about the D5300: http://www.dslrbodies.com/newsviews/sensor-changes.html He says that he can still see "bit of deep shadow banding." and that he believes "Nikon is continuing to tweak the unseen-to-user aspects of the sensors it is using." It doesn't make sense that it is a different sensor. It is so similar to the D5200 (excellent low light, no moire or aliasing, excellent detail) and no other Nikon sensor is anything like it. I believe they have just found a way to bury the banding a bit deeper. The D7100 is the same sensor as the D5200 but with the OLPF removed (so that is why it is a little sharper). ​One day we will know for sure … :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danyyyel Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 I mean they are definitely not the same sensor like the D5200/D7100, by how much is the question. There are many speculation, but what I am saying is that any test conducted on the D5200 and extrapolating it to the D5300 is not valid at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted December 5, 2013 Administrators Share Posted December 5, 2013 I mean they are definitely not the same sensor like the D5200/D7100, by how much is the question. Proof? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danyyyel Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 Look at the DPreview link above where you have photos of the two sensor which comes with the marketing literature of both camera. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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