gt3rs Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 10 minutes ago, Snowbro said: People who bought the 1DX II in 2016 are probably still feeling pretty good, wish I hadn't sold mine. It accidently got ran over by a snowmobile and fell out of a moving car and still worked fine lol. It is a big heavy bitch though. I remember reading here when it was announced... 1.4 crop in video, crippled etc... It was and it still a very good camera. I have mine since it was released and it served me very well for both photo and video. Still the best 4k60p with AF on the market... I was hoping that the new a9 ii would have much better video spec to eventually push canon and nikon to do better but sadly is not the case. It is sad how these company they limit features even on their top of the line cameras... Why no picture profiles, log, 4k 60p etc..? I still hope that the new 1dx iii will have ff 4k60p with clog and fhd 120fps with much better quality... but knowing canon probably not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nathlas Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 Τhis is not the Sony we wait for anyway.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowbro Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 @gt3rs It is just a 1.3x crop. The mark iii supposedly will be 6k from prototype leaks, guess we will see. I don't know if I will ever buy another dslr though lol. Knowing Canon, they wont make a really good mirrorless until the mark iii is 4 years old. So... 2024 we will finally have a good hybrid mirrorless from Canon haha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolf33d Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 This is such a disappointment. Sony really fucked up 2019. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeanRevert Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 Amazeballs, Mako Sports, ntblowz and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otago Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 I'm still not convinced that these camera companies are crippling all their cameras. I think they do with regards to each other i.e. the top of the line has more features than the bottom of the line and they trickledown but I really think they are all coming up against real technical challenges in their top of the line cameras rather than drip feeding technology. I think heat and outdated processors/software are holding them back. I started to think this when I saw that the 5D iv can only have the tagging upgrade or clog installed at the same time, either it is a massive piece of code ( which is pretty unlikely ), there is very little spare memory in that camera ( I think this is most likely ) or they really enjoy pissing off their customers ( which is what most people think! ) It's like they upgraded the imaging chip but didn't update the processors because they still worked for what their goals were. It's hard to know for sure because they give all the processors internal names, has anyone every seen a true breakdown of where those processors sit in something like the ARM range ? The heat is pretty clear when you look at the die casting in something like a C300, it's just a heat sink ( and alignment frame ) attached to a handle really. The RED one and Frankie ( one of the first prototypes ) had an early autofocus system that worked by moving the lens 1 mm when the camera heated up ? I've never worked for a Japanese company but the idea of Kaizen, continuous improvement, seems very embedded in their engineering philosophy so I think it's likely the culprit but also the reason we have shutters that do 500K MTBF, swings and roundabouts. It feels like the polar opposite of western, innovative, engineering - move fast and break stuff. RED is probably a pretty good example of this. I have never had a Japanese camera fail on me, except when I've been far too tough on it, but my M6 needs regular servicing ( well, it feels regular - once every 5 years is pretty good actually ) The next generation, A7V, A7RVI, A7SIII, Nikon D6, D900?, Canon 1DXIII etc... will probably have the next generation of processors in them ( I mean the real next generation in terms of benchmarks to the rest of the world rather than an increment in their own language ) if THEY don't do the stuff we are all wanting then I'll definitely be on the side of the crippling conspiracy theorists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowbro Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 By the time they release the a7siii, it will just be called the a7siv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mako Sports Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 6 hours ago, Snowbro said: By the time they release the a7siii, it will just be called the a7siv You arn't wrong. Its kinda funny that before the Sony A7 line camera to camera upgrades used to be 4 years apart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
no_connection Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 On 10/4/2019 at 10:24 PM, gt3rs said: Why no picture profiles, log, 4k 60p etc..? Simply because the intended audience for it don't care or have use for it. You may not realize but features to cost to implement and since this is a pro camera just having it in there and probably working is not good enough, it needs extensive testing (that costs a lot) and if it impacts the reliability of any other function then there you go. Remember the blinking pixel from a7riii was it? That is simply not acceptable, might be to consumers but ppl who use it as a tool where you need something to work can't be beta testers like in the past. You might be sitting with 200 other photographers contending to get that one shot that will get published, things do take a different perspective. So it's not as simple as a "firmware update". And yes it does such for those that have been waiting or wanting the be all end all super tech thing that does all things but in a more pro body, maybe Sony could add a "creators" firmware with all the functions but with all the alpha testing (pun intended) that comes with it. So the a9ii is a giant upgrade to make it viable where the a9 didn't have the things it needed in that environment. Image quality or megapixels was never what held the a9 back in that regard, usability where it matters was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mokara Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 On 10/4/2019 at 1:24 PM, gt3rs said: I remember reading here when it was announced... 1.4 crop in video, crippled etc... It was and it still a very good camera. I have mine since it was released and it served me very well for both photo and video. Still the best 4k60p with AF on the market... I was hoping that the new a9 ii would have much better video spec to eventually push canon and nikon to do better but sadly is not the case. It is sad how these company they limit features even on their top of the line cameras... Why no picture profiles, log, 4k 60p etc..? I still hope that the new 1dx iii will have ff 4k60p with clog and fhd 120fps with much better quality... but knowing canon probably not. As I said before, it is the processor. They won't have improved video specs until they update the ISP in the processor. I would guess that is in the works but not ready yet, and they needed to update the a9 in time for the Olympics, which means they went with what was available now. On 10/4/2019 at 2:27 PM, Snowbro said: @gt3rs It is just a 1.3x crop. The mark iii supposedly will be 6k from prototype leaks, guess we will see. I don't know if I will ever buy another dslr though lol. Knowing Canon, they wont make a really good mirrorless until the mark iii is 4 years old. So... 2024 we will finally have a good hybrid mirrorless from Canon haha. Don't count on that. Canon should have much better video specs in 2020 models extrapolating from what the Digic 9 should be capable of based on the DV7 specs. If the new 1D uses Digic 9 it may very well have significantly improved video capability. On 10/5/2019 at 5:36 AM, Otago said: I'm still not convinced that these camera companies are crippling all their cameras. I think they do with regards to each other i.e. the top of the line has more features than the bottom of the line and they trickledown but I really think they are all coming up against real technical challenges in their top of the line cameras rather than drip feeding technology. I think heat and outdated processors/software are holding them back. I started to think this when I saw that the 5D iv can only have the tagging upgrade or clog installed at the same time, either it is a massive piece of code ( which is pretty unlikely ), there is very little spare memory in that camera ( I think this is most likely ) or they really enjoy pissing off their customers ( which is what most people think! ) It's like they upgraded the imaging chip but didn't update the processors because they still worked for what their goals were. It's hard to know for sure because they give all the processors internal names, has anyone every seen a true breakdown of where those processors sit in something like the ARM range ? The heat is pretty clear when you look at the die casting in something like a C300, it's just a heat sink ( and alignment frame ) attached to a handle really. The RED one and Frankie ( one of the first prototypes ) had an early autofocus system that worked by moving the lens 1 mm when the camera heated up ? I've never worked for a Japanese company but the idea of Kaizen, continuous improvement, seems very embedded in their engineering philosophy so I think it's likely the culprit but also the reason we have shutters that do 500K MTBF, swings and roundabouts. It feels like the polar opposite of western, innovative, engineering - move fast and break stuff. RED is probably a pretty good example of this. I have never had a Japanese camera fail on me, except when I've been far too tough on it, but my M6 needs regular servicing ( well, it feels regular - once every 5 years is pretty good actually ) The next generation, A7V, A7RVI, A7SIII, Nikon D6, D900?, Canon 1DXIII etc... will probably have the next generation of processors in them ( I mean the real next generation in terms of benchmarks to the rest of the world rather than an increment in their own language ) if THEY don't do the stuff we are all wanting then I'll definitely be on the side of the crippling conspiracy theorists. It is all about processor capability and how hot they get doing it. Crippling has nothing to do with it, rather it is what the processor can do and what sort of compromises to hardware have to be made to fit into a manufacturing cost model. Manufacturers are not competing against their own products, they are competing against competitors products, so crippling for no reason other than crippling would be the equivalent to shooting yourself in the foot. The processors used in these cameras are SoCs so they contain a whole lot more beside the ARM processing cores themselves. It is usually those other bits that limit performance, getting the latest ARM core generally will not solve the problem. Because those other bits have to be developed internally for the most part, development cycles on them can be fairly long, that is the main reason why specs don't increase at the rate we would like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mokara Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 On 10/5/2019 at 9:23 PM, Mako Sports said: You arn't wrong. Its kinda funny that before the Sony A7 line camera to camera upgrades used to be 4 years apart. Not true. Consumer cameras were updated annually with incremental improvements as they came available, so the product stayed up to date as much as possible. All Sony did was extend that approach to prosumer products as well, something Canon and Nikon were not (but should have been) doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MurtlandPhoto Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 5 hours ago, Mokara said: It is all about processor capability and how hot they get doing it. Crippling has nothing to do with it, rather it is what the processor can do and what sort of compromises to hardware have to be made to fit into a manufacturing cost model. Manufacturers are not competing against their own products, they are competing against competitors products, so crippling for no reason other than crippling would be the equivalent to shooting yourself in the foot. You were making a good case until this statement. Canon removing 24p from current and probably future cameras is absolutely purposefully crippling them. There is no extra strain on the processor for 24p/25p versus 30p. It's predatory behavior from a company that is trying to push its customers around - not cool. leeys, newfoundmass and Mako Sports 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newfoundmass Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 Mokara has been searching for every reason EXCEPT the most obvious one to try and explain why 24p was left out. Must have been licensing and cost cutting! Now it must be a processing issue! No. Canon left it out because they want to push the customers that want those features towards their higher priced offerings. It's really that simple. Mako Sports and MurtlandPhoto 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowbro Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 I heard they still haven't implemented touch screen function to the new sony cameras outside of tap af? ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mako Sports Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 12 minutes ago, Snowbro said: I heard they still haven't implemented touch screen function to the new sony cameras outside of tap af? ..... Correct Snowbro 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gt3rs Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 On 10/6/2019 at 4:11 PM, no_connection said: Simply because the intended audience for it don't care or have use for it. As I do pro sport photography and video, own 1dx II, I think I qualify as intended audience.... Many of my colleagues do the same so video is an important aspect of a camera targeted for action and sport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mako Sports Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 3 hours ago, gt3rs said: As I do pro sport photography and video, own 1dx II, I think I qualify as intended audience.... Many of my colleagues do the same so video is an important aspect of a camera targeted for action and sport. This a9ii and the 1dxmkii actually arnt that different when it comes to video. Neither have flat profiles or log. 1DXmkii offers 4K 60, and a really high bitrate. A9mkii has ibis, evf, and better video autofocus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
no_connection Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 Are you telling me you sit at world cup with 200 of the worlds best sports photographers with that much $ in gear and can't afford a 2nd body for video use? You simply don't do video and many times aren't allowed to ether. I have had argument about this with someone that is in the intended audience for this camera and it is a different world. When you are at such an event getting imaged uploaded to the agency while you shoot is one of those make or break things that Sony never had to offer for example. I would argue that pro photographers covering the Olympics is what Sony want to target. Not just action and sports. I'm not sure if my friend is going to the Olympics but if he is you could argue with him there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gt3rs Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 1 hour ago, Mako Sports said: This a9ii and the 1dxmkii actually arnt that different when it comes to video. Neither have flat profiles or log. 1DXmkii offers 4K 60, and a really high bitrate. A9mkii has ibis, evf, and better video autofocus. Better video autofocus since when? 1Dx II is probably the best video AF on the market still, even better than the C200 including AF at 120 fps. Also the 1Dx II you can upload custom picture styles. 58 minutes ago, no_connection said: Are you telling me you sit at world cup with 200 of the worlds best sports photographers with that much $ in gear and can't afford a 2nd body for video use? You simply don't do video and many times aren't allowed to ether. I have had argument about this with someone that is in the intended audience for this camera and it is a different world. When you are at such an event getting imaged uploaded to the agency while you shoot is one of those make or break things that Sony never had to offer for example. I would argue that pro photographers covering the Olympics is what Sony want to target. Not just action and sports. I'm not sure if my friend is going to the Olympics but if he is you could argue with him there. So the A9 II is targeted only to the 200 pro photographers that goes to the Olympics, and out of them only 20 will shoot Sony...…so as soon as the Olympic is over they remove it from the market..... And me and many other colleagues that do both photos and video we are not the target? I have 2 1 DX II and don't want to carry another video body. Just out of curiosity how many A9 or 1Dx or D5 do you have and use for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mako Sports Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 1 hour ago, gt3rs said: Better video autofocus since when? 1Dx II is probably the best video AF on the market still, even better than the C200 including AF at 120 fps. Also the 1Dx II you can upload custom picture styles. When it got the update for AI autofocus with real time tracking and eye autofocus in video... EthanAlexander 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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