Nikon z50 Apsc camera

[Danyyyel]

The xt3 today cost 450 more, I don't know when Nikon will update their video features like internal 10bit and 4k 60 fps, my guess for the Nikon D6 in the next few month and a second iteration of the z6 like they used to do an S version every two years before. The 120 fps slowmo is very good in my opinion.

[thebrothersthre3]

Just now, Danyyyel said:

The xt3 today cost 450 more, I don't know when Nikon will update their video features like internal 10bit and 4k 60 fps, my guess for the Nikon D6 in the next few month and a second iteration of the z6 like they used to do an S version every two years before. The 120 fps slowmo is very good in my opinion.

XT30 is the same price with 10 bit output. 

[Danyyyel]

31 minutes ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

XT30 is the same price with 10 bit output. 

Yep but you still need to fork out another 800 for an external recorder.

[wolf33d]

It's a piece of crap, just like the A6600. Only good work in APSC video now is from Fuji. 
Panasonic does a really good work in video on M43 (good on FF but some massive caveats like the AF at that price point are unacceptable) 
Fuji very good work in APSC. 

Canon is still a complete joke, Nikon is much better than it used to be but not quite there yet. And Sony is a joke in APSC, let's see with the A7S III if they are king again or if they flop totally.  

Samsung in the past, Panasonic, and now Fuji show us the technology is here, even for small companies. 4K60p, 10 bit, good bitrates, all of this is easy and possible since months/years. The rest of them is just still in this game of protecting other products. 

[frontfocus]

I don't think the camera is bad at all. The problem I see is, that there are no lenses for it. Those two kit lenses? Hell no.
There isn't a single stabilized full frame lens you could use and wide angle is missing, especially primes. 

It feels like they just want to sell a few of those kits to beginners and have abandoned the enthusiast and pro crop camera market. 

[thebrothersthre3]

5 hours ago, Danyyyel said:

Yep but you still need to fork out another 800 for an external recorder.

$600 for the Ninja V. 

You can pretty easily find an Assassin for $500 and a Flame for under $600 used as well. Or a Ninja 2 for about $200 if you only need 1080, which is what I have.

With the price cuts and used market the Nikon Z6 is a great option imho. Has better 1080p than the S1 and the lens selection is a lot better. 12 bit prores RAW, which the S1 can't do only the S1H for $4000.

That said it really should have had 10 bit internal. 

[Cinegain]

I'm curious to find out what Feelworld is up to...

Quote

"wireless record function, FEELWORLD A6 will be coming soon"

 

No clue what that would entail exactly... not sure what Video Devices and Convergent Design are up to these days, but there's not that many players on the market doing external recording now. Atomos really are ruling the game. But it would be interesting to see someone be disruptive and bring recording monitors to even more affordable levels.

[thebrothersthre3]

14 minutes ago, Cinegain said:

I'm curious to find out what Feelworld is up to...

No clue what that would entail exactly... not sure what Video Devices and Convergent Design are up to these days, but there's not that many players on the market doing external recording now. Atomos really are ruling the game. But it would be interesting to see someone be disruptive and bring recording monitors to even more affordable levels.

Something truly affordable would be amazing. 
I'd love to see an external recording device that was pretty tiny with no monitor, just like a box with a light.

[Cinegain]

Yeah, I've heard that more frequently... to just bring back the Atomos 'Ninja Star'-philosophy. Just a screenless recorder! Maybe one day someday someone will answer our prayers.

Regarding APS-C, yeah, I'm not really a firm believer of the Fujifilm approach either. Sony's APS-C E-mount may rot in hell... together with Canon's EOS-M. I might've contemplated going APS-C/S35, but just not like this I'm not. Indeed hoping maybe a higher-end version is on the horizon??

That upcoming E-M5 Mark III might be something to look out for now... I just don't want to commit to a fullframe ecosystem.

[thebrothersthre3]

2 minutes ago, Cinegain said:

Yeah, I've heard that more frequently... to just bring back the Atomos 'Ninja Star'-philosophy. Just a screenless recorder! Maybe one day someday someone will answer our prayers.

Regarding APS-C, yeah, I'm not really a firm believer of the Fujifilm approach either. Sony's APS-C E-mount may rot in hell... together with Canon's EOS-M. I might've contemplated going APS-C/S35, but just not like this I'm not. Indeed hoping maybe a higher-end version is on the horizon??

That upcoming E-M5 Mark III might be something to look out for now... I just don't want to commit to a fullframe ecosystem.

The companies don't seem to see much value in it besides Fuji. I guess Sony just put out 3-4 APSC cameras though and the new 2.8 zoom lens. That zoom combined with a better camera would have been nice. 

Fuji doesn't check all my boxes but it comes close. A little better AF and IBIS and it is there however. I am getting an S1 to compliment my two fuji cameras, but if I had to choose between the two it would be Fuji.

[Castorp]

Out of the APSC cameras in this price range the Z50 certainly looks like the best to me. The Z50 seems well built and the sealing is supposed to be good. I like how the grip, buttons and control wheels are executed. 

That kit lens is tiny and the perfect travel lens. 

The main problem is the lack of lenses. (But what new camera system has a lot of lenses?)

Nikon should have made a DX 23 or 35mm f1.8 lens for the launch.

I am excited about the announced 28mm and 40mm “compact primes”. Seeing that they are not S line lenses they should be affordable. Probably pancakes, they will be perfect for the Z50 as well as the full frame Z cameras. I can see myself adding a Z50 in a couple years with one of those pancakes as a throw around travel camera. 

I hope the cheaper and smaller Z30 is still magnesium and with two control wheels but leaves out the viewfinder and flip screen to cut cost and size.That and the 28mm pancake would be a dream.

[ND64]

2 hours ago, Castorp said:

The main problem is the lack of lenses. (But what new camera system has a lot of lenses?)

The main problem is people want a heavily subsidized Fuji system inside Nikon body. 

[Danyyyel]

On 10/12/2019 at 3:29 AM, thebrothersthre3 said:

$600 for the Ninja V. 

You can pretty easily find an Assassin for $500 and a Flame for under $600 used as well. Or a Ninja 2 for about $200 if you only need 1080, which is what I have.

With the price cuts and used market the Nikon Z6 is a great option imho. Has better 1080p than the S1 and the lens selection is a lot better. 12 bit prores RAW, which the S1 can't do only the S1H for $4000.

That said it really should have had 10 bit internal. 

Can you point me to a place where the Ninja V is 600. Everywhere I look, I see it is  700 USD and why did I put $ 800, because as the owner of a Ninja Flame you have factor the price of at least 2 Sony NPF battery and a charger and a SSD reader which at least would cost you another 100-150 USD.

On 10/11/2019 at 10:15 PM, wolf33d said:

It's a piece of crap, just like the A6600. Only good work in APSC video now is from Fuji. 
Panasonic does a really good work in video on M43 (good on FF but some massive caveats like the AF at that price point are unacceptable) 
Fuji very good work in APSC. 

 

I hold the Fuji, I thought I was holding a toy, at least compared to my z6. I mean I know for many only image quality count but for me other thing like viewfinder, body ergonomics, construction, AF etc count. Those funky little fuji with retro hipster style beauty before functionality is not for me. Nowadays has become like an extension of my arm and I can do so much with it that I don't want to go back to anything that is not practical.

9 minutes ago, Danyyyel said:

Can you point me to a place where the Ninja V is 600. Everywhere I look, I see it is  700 USD and why did I put $ 800, because as the owner of a Ninja Flame you have factor the price of at least 2 Sony NPF battery and a charger and a SSD reader which at least would cost you another 100-150 USD.

I hold a Fuji, or at least I tried. I thought I was holding a toy, at least compared to my z6. I mean I know for many only image quality count but for me other thing like viewfinder, body ergonomics, construction, AF etc count. Those funky little fuji with retro hipster style beauty before functionality is not for me. Nowadays has become like an extension of my arm and I can do so much with it that I don't want to go back to anything that is not practical.

The older 20.9 nikon sensor in the D500 had an excellent reputation in term of Low Light, I expect this one to be at least as good and in Fro Photos the Af was excelent.

 

[frontfocus]

2 hours ago, Danyyyel said:

I mean I know for many only image quality count but for me other thing like viewfinder, body ergonomics, construction, AF etc count. Those funky little fuji with retro hipster style beauty before functionality is not for me.

That's funny, I seem to value the same things as you, but for me most fujis do a better job with the things you listed. At least for me. 

But personal preference is just that and that's why it's interesting to have different manufacturers 

[thebrothersthre3]

4 hours ago, Danyyyel said:

Can you point me to a place where the Ninja V is 600. Everywhere I look, I see it is  700 USD and why did I put $ 800, because as the owner of a Ninja Flame you have factor the price of at least 2 Sony NPF battery and a charger and a SSD reader which at least would cost you another 100-150 USD.

I hold the Fuji, I thought I was holding a toy, at least compared to my z6. I mean I know for many only image quality count but for me other thing like viewfinder, body ergonomics, construction, AF etc count. Those funky little fuji with retro hipster style beauty before functionality is not for me. Nowadays has become like an extension of my arm and I can do so much with it that I don't want to go back to anything that is not practical.

 

ebay

Also you can get a couple NPF batteries for like $20 and a SSD reader for under $10

and you can pretty much assign anything to buttons on the Fuji, without using dials. If you are used to using a Nikon that is one thing but that is beside the point. There is really no downside to a smaller body as you can buy grips and such to make them bigger while a bigger body you cannot make smaller. 

Regardless of the cost of the recorder it gives you an upgrade path. Only reason I'd consider getting a Z6 as it can do 10 bit 4k even though I wouldn't go out and buy a Ninja V right away. The A73 will never be able to do that. 

[David Bowgett]

DPReview have now put up some stills of the Z50's video modes:

https://***URL removed***/reviews/nikon-z50-review/7

In a nutshell, overall 4k video quality looks to be about on-par with the GH5 and G9 (maybe even a touch sharper), which pretty much confirms that it's oversampling from a ~5.5k region of the sensor like those two cameras. Not quite as good as the 4k-capable A6x00 cameras or the X-T3(0), but still way, way better than the 4k video on the M6 Mark II.

1080p quality on the other hand actually seems a little worse than the M6 Mark II, GH5, and X-T3(0), albeit still better than the A6x00 line and Nikon's DSLR line.

[ntblowz]

1 hour ago, David Bowgett said:

DPReview have now put up some stills of the Z50's video modes:

https://***URL removed***/reviews/nikon-z50-review/7

In a nutshell, overall 4k video quality looks to be about on-par with the GH5 and G9 (maybe even a touch sharper), which pretty much confirms that it's oversampling from a ~5.5k region of the sensor like those two cameras. Not quite as good as the 4k-capable A6x00 cameras or the X-T3(0), but still way, way better than the 4k video on the M6 Mark II.

1080p quality on the other hand actually seems a little worse than the M6 Mark II, GH5, and X-T3(0), albeit still better than the A6x00 line and Nikon's DSLR line.

So Z50 have Good 4K but average 1080P,  I think it is more balance than A6x00 line which have very good 4K and very bad 1080p or m6 ii which have very good 1080p and very bad 4K

I just noticed M6II's 120fps is surprisingly sharp, much sharper than normal 1080P from most other camera.

[IronFilm]

On 10/11/2019 at 2:03 AM, Mako Sports said:

Jello/RS - Its nothing to do with the sensor, thats how fast the processor can read it.

It is both..... either could be the bottleneck. 

The sensor might have a limit in how fast it can send out the data, or the processor might have a limit in how fast it can read that data sent to it. 

 

On 10/12/2019 at 4:22 PM, Cinegain said:

No clue what that would entail exactly... not sure what Video Devices and Convergent Design are up to these days, but there's not that many players on the market doing external recording now. Atomos really are ruling the game. But it would be interesting to see someone be disruptive and bring recording monitors to even more affordable levels.

As more and more cameras get 10bit internal, I'd say the market for external recorders is going to die away. 

 

[leslie]

On 12/19/2019 at 8:44 PM, IronFilm said:

It is both..... either could be the bottleneck. 

The sensor might have a limit in how fast it can send out the data, or the processor might have a limit in how fast it can read that data sent to it. 

 

As more and more cameras get 10bit internal, I'd say the market for external recorders is going to die away. 

 

i'm not so sure, even with 10 bit internal, i presume that there will be 12/14 bit external for those that demand it. Now whether they implement as an external recorder like an atomos or do something funky like bmd did with the p4k and usb type c and debayer to get around that patent issue. Thats the question i think.

[noone]

On 12/19/2019 at 9:44 PM, IronFilm said:

 

 

As more and more cameras get 10bit internal, I'd say the market for external recorders is going to die away. 

 

Can not come quick enough for me so i can pick up a 4k external recorder for my first version A7s cheap.