Canon 1DX III, FF 4k60p with 422 10bit internal

[kye]

4 hours ago, wolf33d said:

So I am still waiting for that FF 4K60 10 bit no crop camera. 

I'm curious about why it has to be FF?

I like the FF look, but with great lenses that is possible on APSC or MFT, and when you factor in the price of this camera, the best lenses money can buy aren't actually that much money.

[Caleb Genheimer]

Yea I LOVE my GH5S, and if the S1H didn’t still have a drunk person inside it running the autofocus, I’d have bought that sucker so fast....

Canon just has AF nailed down at this point. It’s 100 % professionally useable. 

I wont deny that they get a whole lot of other stuff pretty mix-bag as far as video is concerned.

Why every influencer isn’t absolutely SCREAMING at Panasonic to fix their AF I have no idea. Maybe 2020 is the magic year for saying enough is enough? I would almost dare call the S1H the perfect hybrid cine camera, but for the AF. Actually, the Sony FX9 gets a step closer, including good AF and electronic ND... but it doesn’t have that juicy full sensor 3:2 mode. It’s also the first Sony camera in a while that doesn’t make skin tones look like hot garbage. That’s one other thing Canon has down well. 

It feels like that Goldilocks camera is somewhere just around the corner...

full frame open gate mirrorless

4K+ 60p

dual native ISO

electronic ND

dual pixel autofocus

internal compressed Raw codec

dual analog gain audio inputs with 32 bit float file recording.

[nathlas]

Internal RAW recording capabality is the game changer ( if crop is not at EosR's level)

BMPCC4k and eventually BMPCC6k along with low price have succeed for that reason mostly.

 

Of course AF is a massive plus if you compare with S1H but not that critical. I nevel liked connect HDDs/recorders externally if I could avoid that.

[OliKMIA]

Looks like another schizophrenic move by Canon:

• On one hand they don't want to be completely left behind and try to play the specs game by adding features for the stickers on the box
• But on the other side, the implementation will suck, it's probably going to crop and omit key video features to protect the cineline.

In any case, who will buy this camera for the video specs? Pro sport photographers don't care about video. Pro video people can buy a real Cine camera at this price. Video enthusiasts and indie filmmakers won't be served by a brick DSLR cam (limited gimbal value), fixed screen, no video assist features...

It reminds me the 1Dx2. The 4k60 on a FF camera was a big "wow" upon release. But then people realized all the dealbreakers: huge 800mbps file,  no LOG, no video features, etc.  I Haven't seen anyone using the 1Dx2 for video work: too big, to expensive, not video friendly, ergonomic designed for war and olympic games photographer.

 

 

 

[ND64]

No reason for crop anxiety. They can do 4k60fps and 6k30fps. They're behind Sony in sensor tech, buy not as much as 3 years ago.

[gt3rs]

59 minutes ago, OliKMIA said:

Looks like another schizophrenic move by Canon:

• On one hand they don't want to be completely left behind and try to play the specs game by adding features for the stickers on the box
• But on the other side, the implementation will suck, it's probably going to crop and omit key video features to protect the cineline.

In any case, who will buy this camera for the video specs? Pro sport photographers don't care about video. Pro video people can buy a real Cine camera at this price. Video enthusiasts and indie filmmakers won't be served by a brick DSLR cam (limited gimbal value), fixed screen, no video assist features...

It reminds me the 1Dx2. The 4k60 on a FF camera was a big "wow" upon release. But then people realized all the dealbreakers: huge 800mbps file,  no LOG, no video features, etc.  I Haven't seen anyone using the 1Dx2 for video work: too big, to expensive, not video friendly, ergonomic designed for war and olympic games photographer.

 

 

 

Just won an Oscar but nobody uses it for video? 

From freesolo director:

"What cameras and lenses did the high-angle team have in hand?

On the walls we were shooting with the Canon C300s [Mark II]. Since I was directing and shooting, and also shooting a NatGeo story on top of it, I was filming with the Canon 1DX Mark II so I could film but also shoot stills. But everybody else was on the C300s. When we were up on the wall, we were using EF lenses, but when we shot vérité we often had the Canon Cinema Primes. The long shots from the ground up the wall were through the Canon 50–1000mm Cine-Servos. As you can imagine, that was a very critical lens throughout this film. Canon went above and beyond in their support of this film. We were very lucky indeed."

They used 1Dx II also as remote triggered video camera, on the BTS you can spot them multiple time. They had custom made long range camera triggers build around Arduino and long range radio

Again tons of pro photographer for Action and Sports do shoot video and many do with the same DSLR that we use for photo. It is not for you but the pro action and sport market is much bigger than the hobbits or limited budget video market and yes we shot video too

 

[Adam Kuźniar]

9 minutes ago, gt3rs said:

Just won an Oscar but nobody uses it for video? 

wait what where

[gt3rs]

Just now, Adam Kuźniar said:

wait what where

Freesolo I have updated the post above. Again It is a camera for sport and action photographer that do also video, if you are video only buy a cinema camera but for people like me I want a single camera that does both the best it can.

[kye]

3 hours ago, Caleb Genheimer said:

Why every influencer isn’t absolutely SCREAMING at Panasonic to fix their AF I have no idea. Maybe 2020 is the magic year for saying enough is enough?

Same reason that they're not all screaming at Canon for lack of un-cropped 4K...  Every brand has weaknesses, to expect otherwise is naive.

I love it when Canon moves slightly, all the people that believe in pixies, santa, the perfect camera, unicorns, the company not driven by profit, and other mythical creatures all appear and emote all over the internet!!

[OliKMIA]

53 minutes ago, gt3rs said:

Just won an Oscar but nobody uses it for video? 

From freesolo director:

"What cameras and lenses did the high-angle team have in hand?

On the walls we were shooting with the Canon C300s [Mark II]. Since I was directing and shooting, and also shooting a NatGeo story on top of it, I was filming with the Canon 1DX Mark II so I could film but also shoot stills. But everybody else was on the C300s. When we were up on the wall, we were using EF lenses, but when we shot vérité we often had the Canon Cinema Primes. The long shots from the ground up the wall were through the Canon 50–1000mm Cine-Servos. As you can imagine, that was a very critical lens throughout this film. Canon went above and beyond in their support of this film. We were very lucky indeed."

They used 1Dx II also as remote triggered video camera, on the BTS you can spot them multiple time. They had custom made long range camera triggers build around Arduino and long range radio

Again tons of pro photographer for Action and Sports do shoot video and many do with the same DSLR that we use for photo. It is not for you but the pro action and sport market is much bigger than the hobbits or limited budget video market and yes we shot video too

 

Good point but even the director in the link said it "everybody else was on the C300s." This is a niche market for very high end production that can afford a bunch of $6,000 camera because it's convenient in some specific situation. If I remember correctly, a few 5DMk2 were used a stunt cameras during Mad Max production. Not really a mass market.

 

 

[andreyblanco]

@Andrew Reid

is a bit funny how much you hate Canon these days, the least you can do is change the website name LOL 

 

I'm almost convinced this Canon won't have a 4K FF RAW or 10Bits, Because this will Cannibalised sales of the unreleased  C500. But let's be clear this is not a Video oriented  camera. The market for this are the Old Fashion-Sport Photographer that are used to a mirror or the odd Rich Youtuber than feel cool with a huge body like this. Canon Still selling bodies and Lens as much are they want. 

[Sid]

Very good article with interesting perspective, but could an unconscious bias still be creeping in ?  Hypothetically, if the Panasonic S1H had originally been announced with these specs and price, with Canon announcing nothing, I'm guessing Panasonic would have gotten accolades and Canon still the punchbag.  Perspective is a strange and fickle thing.  I was so tempted by the Sigma FP but now want to see the Foveon version.  Crazily, I am in a cold sweat for this MkIII, but yeah the price is beyond me.

[Andrew Reid]

11 hours ago, Michi said:

I'm very proud of myself. 

But it has to be a crop for raw recording right?  isn't 4k raw on a 24-28mp sensor only doable through sensor cropping?

No the RAW sensor data can come off the CMOS chip in a number of ways...

It can be pixel binned, full width.

It can be the full pixel readout 24MP / 6K+

Then downsampled on the processor (still remains RAW data)

Only reason you'd go for a 1:1 centre crop is if the sensor is too slow to readout more data, or doesn't have pixel binning implemented.

[gt3rs]

6 minutes ago, OliKMIA said:

Good point but even the director in the link said it "everybody else was on the C300s." This is a niche market for very high end production that can afford a bunch of $6,000 camera because it's convenient in some specific situation. If I remember correctly, a few 5DMk2 were used a stunt cameras during Mad Max production. Not really a mass market.

 

 

If you check the BTS you will spot at least 3 others 1Dx II placed as remote for video.

Not sure why is so hard to understand that the main target is not video only people, but it is sport action photographer that also shoot video and there are many like me.

On the price, I have my 1Dx II since release so by the time the 1Dx III is on the market it will be 4 years old. I have more than 300'000 shutter click on it so let say I can resell it for less that 1000 USD.
So 5k in 4 years it makes around 100$ a month....  the ones that screams around about the price they change systems and cameras in this 4 years a few time and I'm sure that they end up with more than 100$  a month...

And btw the 4k 60p with AF was the main drive for me to upgrade from the 1Dx and 4 years later not many cameras can do that.

Canon is really frustrating because they have the tech to produce better camera and not cripple it like omitting Log etc... Let see what kind of limitations and or crippling will the 1Dx III have..... on the C500 II they went all in let's hope they will do the same with the 1Dx III

[Andrew Reid]

4 minutes ago, Sid said:

Very good article with interesting perspective, but could an unconscious bias still be creeping in ?  Hypothetically, if the Panasonic S1H had originally been announced with these specs and price, with Canon announcing nothing, I'm guessing Panasonic would have gotten accolades and Canon still the punchbag.  Perspective is a strange and fickle thing.  I was so tempted by the Sigma FP but now want to see the Foveon version.  Crazily, I am in a cold sweat for this MkIII, but yeah the price is beyond me.

No unconscious bias. Objective facts, yes. If Panasonic had released a $6K version of the S1H with no EVF, no articulated screen, no anamorphic mode, with a flippy mirror in the way, we'd all be going "eh"

Not saying the 1D X III does not have benefits and is not a big improvement from the previous one....

But it's still limited by being a DSLR, huge file sizes in RAW, very high price, and fact there are much better options around for 10bit if you're ok with manual focus (as filmmaker you should be!)

Foveon version of the Fp I very much doubt will shoot decent video due to how much extra data there is on the Foveon chip.

[Michael Steiner]

31 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

No the RAW sensor data can come off the CMOS chip in a number of ways...

It can be pixel binned, full width.

It can be the full pixel readout 24MP / 6K+

Then downsampled on the processor (still remains RAW data)

Only reason you'd go for a 1:1 centre crop is if the sensor is too slow to readout more data, or doesn't have pixel binning implemented.

Ah ok, didn't know that. I thought that when you have to reprocess the sensor data in any way you couldn't store it in raw anymore... Thanks. 

[cameraeye]

I'm hoping that because of the $6000 price range they'll not cripple it on the video side. I read somewhere on here I think from Andrew that the 1Dx II was considered the 1Dc successor, so if thats true maybe we can expect the III to be the baby cine camera with more video features than the 5D series.

[jgharding]

Having a C200, and never using Canon RAW because of the file sizes, it does not excite me.

TBH I spend more time these days using a GH5 in VlogL at 4K 422 150meg 10-bit, as it's a great balance of file size and quality.

[Sid]

Apparently Canon have confirmed a 5DMk5 is in the works, but also mentioned that a pro-grade mirrorless is being developed.  I wonder if the mirrorless will have these specs, and the what the release timeframe could be.  Olympics 2020 too wishful...?

[Yurolov]

1 hour ago, Andrew Reid said:

No unconscious bias. Objective facts, yes. If Panasonic had released a $6K version of the S1H with no EVF, no articulated screen, no anamorphic mode, with a flippy mirror in the way, we'd all be going "eh"

Not saying the 1D X III does not have benefits and is not a big improvement from the previous one....

But it's still limited by being a DSLR, huge file sizes in RAW, very high price, and fact there are much better options around for 10bit if you're ok with manual focus (as filmmaker you should be!)

Foveon version of the Fp I very much doubt will shoot decent video due to how much extra data there is on the Foveon chip.

Bias can also be by the weight you give the pros and cons of the competing systems. I think it is tough to say for sure how you will feel about it without using it. Yes there are draw backs but nothing comes close to giving internal raw at FF 4k60p with amazing autofocus, pro stills capabilities and pro level ruggedness, to the point where, ye, you can take it to the mountains and film a doco without having to worry about the weather and dust or it malfunctioning. Look how much Sony want to charge you for the Fx9 and still no internal raw and that thing is huge. Gotta give props where it is due.