Sigma Fp first shots - how does internal 8bit RAW compare to external 12bit RAW?

[Cinegain]

8 hours ago, The ghost of squig said:

How is it that a handful of volunteers can reverse engineer firmware and make raw work, but a big corporation can't? ?

It's not a matter that they can't. But that they won't. Mostly out of fear of overexterting the cameras capabilities with unforseen consequences. Or just plain marketing... if you give a horse a bucket full of carrots... what makes you think he'll chase the one dangling in front of him?

[Andrew Reid]

17 hours ago, heart0less said:

Didn't know you were a gamer kind of dude, Andrew. Nice place.
o;

Great impressions, looking forward to seeing more!

Got a 10K experiment going on with that. 10K resolution in iRacing

Prefer it to VR.

3x 4K screens even quite cheap these days.

[Waynes]

Did you ever think, that the insane contracts in the industry maybe even might influence supply chain of types of parts?

[Waynes]

11 hours ago, Brian Williams said:

I'm sure they didn't do those thing you mention because it can't handle it, just like almost every other camera out there. You're disappointed that a $1900 Fullframe camera that shoots raw video can't do 6k raw at 50fps??

I'm a realist.  Don't believe people that sell you value added that has nothing to do with costs.  If it has 6k sensor, and can scale it at 30fps, it should be able to do 6k at 30fps. But who knows what's hobbled in the parts.  If it can do 6k 30fps, windowing an extra wide and overclocking, it might get to 50fps.  You think companies always give you the best?

It you run the processing of compression the same rate, you get little extra heat, but a compression quality hit.  But there isn't much of an cdng on camera to start with.  12 bits would be great.  But we see certain cameras like the JVC s35mm did firmware upgrades to add extra performance, one of the few.   JVC was one that usually stepped up in advance.

11 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

You can bet your house that when we have 8K 120fps, people will be disappointed.

What no 240fps 16 bit Raw 3D Andrew?

Just hand over the 60fps 8k please!  

[BTM_Pix]

10 hours ago, Video Hummus said:

Someone needs to make a device with a USB-C port that takes the CDNG from the camera and outputs compressed CDNG to a T5 SSD in realtime.

I think the new version of the Gnarbox might have some potential to do a sort of variation of this, albeit it as a background/post shoot task rather than strictly in realtime.

It can act as a USB drive and can also transcode so potentially could be used as the recording medium and then automatically transcode the files as a batch operation.

Currently it doesn't have the transcode formats (I think it only has 720p mp4 proxy and ProRes 4:2:2 options at the moment) but I don't see a technical reason why they couldn't incorporate more if there was enough demand for it.

As I say, it wouldn't be realtime (or anything like realtime) but at least would give an automated option for it to be ready for when you want to start editing.

[Brian Williams]

Can anyone help figure this out? So after doing some research, I read that the battery the FP uses is the same as a Panasonic battery, I guess the same one the GH2 used? SO I bought two Wasabi BLC-12 batteries. When I put them in the camera, the camera turns on, but I was getting this weird indicator for the battery, which a lighting bolt over it, as though it were charging. So I looked it up in the manual, and it shows the attached screenshot, "Camera is operating on household power or an external battery."

How is that possibly since the camera isn't supposed to be able to run while charging? Or is that only the case when actually charging via USB?

So is it seeing this battery as though it were an external cord, and therefore I'll never actually get an idea of what the battery charge is?

[nathlas]

 

[Lars Steenhoff]

 

bit of moire on the bridge:

 

 

[Caleb Genheimer]

@Andrew Reid

What kind of DR are you seeing compared to the S1H? I’m patiently waiting still for someone to break that Alexa barrier of 14+ stops, but even with RAW becoming pedestrian in the last few years, no camera does yet. The S1H is now a Netflix certified A-camera, which means it is very good... but it still sits right in that 12-ish stop plateau where most all cameras sit (even if it’s a very high quality 12 stop image.) 

Do you think there’s any chance of a full sensor height 3:2 readout on the Sigma similar to the S1H 6K mode? If you’re in contact with Sigma, put that bug in their ear for sure.

[thebrothersthre3]

33 minutes ago, Caleb Genheimer said:

@Andrew Reid

What kind of DR are you seeing compared to the S1H? I’m patiently waiting still for someone to break that Alexa barrier of 14+ stops, but even with RAW becoming pedestrian in the last few years, no camera does yet. The S1H is now a Netflix certified A-camera, which means it is very good... but it still sits right in that 12-ish stop plateau where most all cameras sit (even if it’s a very high quality 12 stop image.) 

Do you think there’s any chance of a full sensor height 3:2 readout on the Sigma similar to the S1H 6K mode? If you’re in contact with Sigma, put that bug in their ear for sure.

I am guessing the Pocket 6k uses a similar sensor to the Fuji XT3. However its raw isn't like what the Fuji can do stills wise. I am guessing its the 12 bit readout vs 14 bit. Although in stills the Fuji gets about 13.5 stops which isn't 14. Still that is more than I could ever imagine needing. I can pretty much shoot directly into the sun and get a well exposed image. 

My XT3 in video's dynamic range gives me most of what I need though. I am guessing that extra stop I'd get from an S1 or Ursa Mini would be sufficient. 

[Francesco Bollorino]

simple question: why not BMRAW option? Is  it in a future upgrade?

[Waynes]

BM would have to license it, but Sigma could make dng act like Braw easily, a little bit of noise reduction processing can be left out, the dng can be put in a container with linear storage space, and meta file and what ever else.  They could do dynamic compression on different parts of the image to save on one area and give more to others.  You can do the multiple log thing.  Put in the latest jpeg format with double the compression efficiency.  They just have to put the work on.

[Brian Williams]

This isn't going to sell the camera to anyone, but I will say, having completely written off the 8-bit raw before I even got the camera, I was intrigued by the article here to give it a go, and while you can't push the grade like you can with the 12-bit, having the benefit of being able to adjust the white balance after the fact is really great, and I'm totally sold on using the 8-bit. Just sucks that a fast UHS-II card with a fraction of the capacity is more expensive than a 500gb T5. (Or half-glass full, awesome that a T5 is cheaper than a fast UHS-II card with a fraction of the capacity!)

Shot with the Sigma MC-21and the Canon thrifty fifty (which is a horrible combination btw, the slowest focusing I've ever seen, they're both going back). Works great in manual. Looking forward to some stabilized L-Mounts.

[Lars Steenhoff]

https://www.smallrig.com/smallrig-cage-for-sigma-fp-camera-ccm2518.html?fbclid=IwAR1qoUkxDzO_43oOWz01kyMNhLRl03UTSIflt1juJ8u4Ed-Own9mfYSFNDg

new cage in development

DB5207CA-ECCB-4AF0-BA5C-5C75477B3FF7.jp2 E240F685-73D5-4C23-9C8D-43C1156734E4.jp2 3B8A9510-4769-4EA8-9799-CADEF398C880.jp2

[MrSMW]

16 hours ago, Lars Steenhoff said:

 

bit of moire on the bridge:

 

 

What is that lens?

Looks very steampunk on the FP.

[Lars Steenhoff]

Looks like a vintage leica summicron 50 f2

[thebrothersthre3]

10 hours ago, Brian Williams said:

This isn't going to sell the camera to anyone, but I will say, having completely written off the 8-bit raw before I even got the camera, I was intrigued by the article here to give it a go, and while you can't push the grade like you can with the 12-bit, having the benefit of being able to adjust the white balance after the fact is really great, and I'm totally sold on using the 8-bit. Just sucks that a fast UHS-II card with a fraction of the capacity is more expensive than a 500gb T5. (Or half-glass full, awesome that a T5 is cheaper than a fast UHS-II card with a fraction of the capacity!)

Shot with the Sigma MC-21and the Canon thrifty fifty (which is a horrible combination btw, the slowest focusing I've ever seen, they're both going back). Works great in manual. Looking forward to some stabilized L-Mounts.

Yeah one of the disadvantages of 8bit is it doesn't hold up to grading, so RAW sorts that issue to an extent. Why not record the 8 bit RAW to an SSD? 

If they can develop RAW with 5:1 compression I'll be all over this camera. 

[kaylee]

On 11/1/2019 at 4:07 AM, Andrew Reid said:

Got a 10K experiment going on with that. 10K resolution in iRacing

suggestion: emulators

 

[Brian Williams]

1 hour ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

Why not record the 8 bit RAW to an SSD?

Yeah, I totally could, it’s just that being able to ditch the SSD hanging off the side of the camera is the main pull for the 8-bit raw; if I have the SSD attached, I feel like I might as well go ahead and shoot 12-bit.

[currensheldon]

Has anyone seen any tests on the photography side? The all electronic shutter concerns me for movement and certain lighting conditions but it would be nice to have a full frame camera this small to have with you at all times.