4K DSLR with no jittery / stutter video ? (Canon vs Fuji vs Sony)

[DeesserLord]

Hi

I shoot family movies in 24 fps 1/50 shutter with my T6i using the CineVision profile. It's canon "mush" but it still looks sweet.

I bought a Sony A6000 as an upgrade to my T6i. I was disappointed with the colors (especially ugly in low light), and felt the motion was weird / jittery. Sold it.

Just bought a X-T30, it's much better than the Sony, but again, the motion was weird / stuttering, and under some LED lights i get some banding which i never had with my T6i. The skin tones are really magenta (like the Sony) though custom grading using F-Log helps. I've also realized i don't like small / compact 15-45mm zoom lens, for some reason i feel they make the footage look like a smartphone video... I prefer my canon kit lens 18-55mm, which does not produce any noise when autofocusing.... You guessed it : i'm returning the X-T30 and i'm bummed. 

Is there an affordable APS-C DSLR with good motion / acceptable rolling shutter / good color science (especially for skin tones and especially in low light) / a good 18mm lens / 200 mbits or more ? i guess it would be around 1500$ ? Does it exist ?

 

Thanks  

[socs]

Magenta skin tones in low light often happens when using auto white balance in any camera.  Are you setting a custom white balance?  or manually setting the wb kelvin to taste ?  I prefer the cool blue look at night sometimes with a kelvin < 3k.

Regarding the jitter... Are you whipping the camera around ?  Move slowly when panning depending on the shutter angle and fps.  Or maybe you mean your computer can't handle 4k and in that case stick with hd, or render proxies.

The xt30 doesn't have ibis so use a tripod if possible.  Otherwise you can try the xh1 which does have ibis but auto focus is little bit worse than the xt30.

[thebrothersthre3]

Try Eterna with custom WB and see what you think. Flog is known to be difficult to grade. The GH5 has a very low rolling shutter in 4k, but its not known to have great color or motion cadence. You could try a Nikon Z6, they come up used for around $1500. 

I'd also suggest the 18-55 kit lens, its very nice in comparison to the cheaper 15-45. I've never really understood what people are talking about in regards to motion though. Try 1080p see if you like it any better.

[Mokara]

Usually that stutter/jitter you see when moving a camera is due to the IS system being at too aggressive a setting. Rock solid IS when the camera is mostly stationary is fine, but if you are moving the camera a lot around an axis, such as panning, you need to turn IS off or you are going to get some seriously ugly jumping going on. Generally things like pans need to be done on something like a tripod or gimbal, with IS switched off.

[DeesserLord]

Thanks

I don't pan or move, i like static shots, and when comparing the T6i to the X-T30 or the A6300 when shooting moving subject, it's very obvious. It is well documented in other threads, just type the name of the camera + jittery or stutter in google. Some people don't see it or don't mind though, i can't help but notice it. My computer is quite a beast and plays 4k perfectly.

About the white balance : i make family movies so i stick to auto white balance. Again, the canon still makes pleasing colors even if the WB is off.

I'm not a fan of Eterna, it's great for some use but i prefer a more colourful profile for what i do. I've made my own LUTs for the X-t30, with the F-Log to FLog_BT.709 baked in. I might share them here.

[frontfocus]

1 hour ago, DeesserLord said:

It is well documented in other threads, just type the name of the camera

where?

Quote

 just type the name of the camera + jittery or stutter in google

didn't find much. 

I know the A6300 has bad rolling shutter, but that's not really jittery. I associate jittery footage with the wrong shutter speed. Are you recording 4K on the Sony and Fuji and 1080p on the Canon? It might just be, that you don't see small defects with the low resolution of the Canon. 

[Inazuma]

I have the Xt30 and dont experience any of the issues you're talking about. Have you already returned it? If not, please give it another chance. Get the 18-55mm f2.8-4 and learn your way around the camera some more.

[DeesserLord]

maybe type X-T30 stutter. It's just that even at 1/50 in 24 fps you it just feels like you're at a way higher shutter speed for some reason. believe me i've looked at every settings, just like on the A6000. it's subtle but it's definitely there, it pulls me out personally.

again a lot of people don't mind it, it's a matter of taste. A lot of videos on youtube with "filmic" look find people go crazy over in the comments section - i find it just awful and overprocessed. Same for photography, some people like overprocessed HDR photography with saturation boosted to 11. I like a soft analog film look whereas people love a more modern one...

[DeesserLord]

3 hours ago, frontfocus said:

It might just be, that you don't see small defects with the low resolution of the Canon. 

probably also true that the lower actual resolution of the canon between (720p and 1080p iirc) helps to hide some nasty things...

[thebrothersthre3]

Have you tried lowering the shutter speed? You should be able to do 1/48 shutter. I know back in the GH2 days a lot of people liked shooting at 1/40 shutter to get a more film look. 

I've heard complaints about rolling shutter for panning shots or handheld, or really fast moving objects. In terms of what you are talking about which is usually called motion cadence, I don't know. I've heard people speak highly of the motion cadence on Fuji cameras. I've heard people diss motion cadence on the black magic pocket and other people say its really nice. 

If you like Canon though why not upgrade to an EOS R or a 5D MK3-4

[DeesserLord]

28 minutes ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

If you like Canon though why not upgrade to an EOS R or a 5D MK3-4

EOS rebel is as big as i'm willing to carry around traveling with kids, and the price point is right for me too  

[thebrothersthre3]

The EOS R is pretty much the same size as a Rebel T6i 

If you want something truly small check out the M6 MKii, seems to be the best bang for your buck canon camera right now. 

[frontfocus]

Can you upload a clip showing the problem? Would be interesting to see different opinions on what causes it

[DeesserLord]

i have one but really that's not the point of the thread

[KnightsFan]

17 minutes ago, DeesserLord said:

i have one but really that's not the point of the thread

That is exactly the point of this thread. We aren't sure what the stuttering that you are seeing is, and therefore can't tell you which cameras (if any) don't have it. "the motion was weird / stuttering" doesn't explain to me what the problem is. If it's rolling shutter you are seeing, then the XT3 is the best APS-C option outside cine cams--or possibly a FF camera using the APS-C crop. If you are seeing stutter from bad playback, then the XT-3 is likely the worst option. If you're just seeing added sharpness over the mushy Canon, then simply use any camera, apply a generous blur, transcode to a lower bitrate and you're good to go lol.

[DeesserLord]

2 hours ago, KnightsFan said:

We aren't sure what the stuttering that you are seeing is, and therefore can't tell you which cameras (if any) don't have it.

Then how could you help at all ? Nothing against you but this common practice of always second guessing the OP on web forums isn't always fruitful.

There's something unnatural about the motion cadence of the A6000 and the X-T30, and all the tests and settings change i did couldn't help it. Believe me i was pissed.

[KnightsFan]

4 minutes ago, DeesserLord said:

Then how could you help at all ? Nothing against you but this common practice of always second guessing the OP on web forums isn't always fruitful.

That's my point, I can't help at all if I don't know what you are seeing. It's not second guessing at all, I'm trying to figure out what exactly the issue is.

[thebrothersthre3]

4 hours ago, DeesserLord said:

i have one but really that's not the point of the thread

I really have never got the motion cadence thing so I would be interested to see a comparison just out of curiosity. Not that you have the time but would be cool to see.

Also would be interested to know if it is more to your liking shoot 24p at 30-40 shutter. Another fellow on here just posted how he shoots 1/40 1/30 shutter a lot on his GH5 which gives it a more film look, in his eyes at least.  
 

[DeesserLord]

10 hours ago, KnightsFan said:

That's my point, I can't help at all if I don't know what you are seeing. It's not second guessing at all, I'm trying to figure out what exactly the issue is.

It's literally in the first post, why would i need to repeat ? Why not telling me which camera is the best under 1500$ right off the bat ? I know a lot of people like the A6000 and X-T30 and probably some of their users reading this thread are unhappy i don't like their camera. If you think they make great footage with great motion cadence and i'm wrong, fine, i really don't care.

9 hours ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

Also would be interested to know if it is more to your liking shoot 24p at 30-40 shutter. Another fellow on here just posted how he shoots 1/40 1/30 shutter a lot on his GH5 which gives it a more film look, in his eyes at least.  
 

I did some tests lowering the shutter speed and while i didn't record them to really precisely compare to 1/50, what i've seen in the live view looked very similar. Again, i think the lower 1080p resolution + the mushy look of the Canon + the bigger darker blurrier 18-55 lens probably helps hide some of the motion artefacts.

This is probably what separates DSLR from expensive dedicated 4K video cameras... They don't have to translate a say 24MP sensor to 3840x2160 in realtime with a modest processor, and their software is more optimized.

[MrSMW]

This thread reminds me of Monty Python's Cheese Shop sketch...