$3000 Nikon D800 thrashes flagship $6000 Nikon D4 for video

[Andrew Reid]

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[img]http://www.eoshd.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/d800-fx.jpg[/img]

[url="https://vimeo.com/39035275"]Freelance BBC shooter Johnnie Behiri[/url] has had his hands all over the new Nikon DSLRs recently and has been keeping me informed about their pros and cons. The big news here is just how good the Nikon D800′s video with cutting edge Sony sensor is relative to its big brother the D4.

[url="http://www.eoshd.com/content/7620/3000-nikon-d800-thrashes-flagship-6000-nikon-d4-for-video/"]Read full article[/url]

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[terrykim]

Do you know of any video tests being done with the D800E? Do you think it would have similar image quality to the regular D800? This is somewhat important to me because while I primarily use my cameras for video I'm also a painter and I do need a camera to take the highest resolution pictures of my work for prints and it would be nice to have the extra resolution of the D800E if it does not add a significant amount of moire and aliasing on the video side.

[Andrew Reid]

Don't think any D800E video footage is out there yet. But it would almost certainly exaggerate the mild aliasing and moire issue of the D800 not having an anti-aliasing filter over the sensor.

[tungah]

I think what Nikon needs for them to open their eyes about video is seeing an increase in their sales of the D800 for video people.
They are [url=http://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Electronics-Digital-SLR-Cameras/zgbs/electronics/3017941/]#1 top seller on amazon[/url] right now. I bet a significant part of those are video oriented purchases.
Lets say that, because of the video crowd buying the D800, sales increase by 5%.
That's a HUGE amount of money for a flagship model from a company like Nikon.
That's reason enough for them to invest in R&D for clean video with no moire/aliasing and 1080@60 (and maybe 1080@120, even if only in 1.5 crop mode), or even 4k@24, why not? All the cool guys are doing it.

As noted again and again, they are the only company of the bunch that doesn't have a more expensive lineup to protect.
I hope they wake up and realize that stills/video hybrid is the future, and they showed us that they CAN make good video.

And not only that: Sony will come probably with the same sensor later this year, and they will not wait and see Canon and Nikon go home with their sales. They will hit hard.
And Nikon also has another card up it's sleeve: it's the company with the more compatible lenses/mount of the 3, if Sony chooses the Alpha mount for their next full frame.

They could even buy a company like Ninja or AJA and make a grip-like video recorder only compatible with their cameras for like $1000. Doesn't even need to be RAW video. Just give us 444 Prores and we're good.
That would be THE END of Sony and Canon if they don't up their game and/or down their price.

I know I'm dreaming here, and that this will probably never happen. But who knows? Wait and see Nikon gain 4-5% sales figures from the pro video market on one side, and on the other they see the Kodak nightmare happening. Those 2 factors speak a lot for an enterprise. And we're not talking rocket science here: they only need to deliver  the minimum of what people are asking for video that the others are not willing to give for $3000-$4000.

Exciting times.

*Sorry for my long post and for my english. I get really carried away, ha!*

[terrykim]

I think this obsession with 4k for the masses is a little premature. There are barely any non pro cameras that can even deliver legit 1080p. I think one of the big obstacles in Nikon's way is the fact their lenses rotate backwards. It may not sound like a huge thing but from what I hear that drives a lot of focus pullers nuts.  They need to make a line of video lens that rotate the other way.

[PAVP]

I was already leaning towards the D800 due to the HDMI/4:2:2 output, but now after seeing that the resolution is better than originally reported i'm starting to really be headed towards Nikon.  I had predicted that they are the one company positioned to go further on the video side due to not have a pro video dept. to protect and so far they've almost achieved what many of us want.  If there's any way they can tweak their code to diminish the Aliasing and Moire just a bit more, they would lock up the market IMO.  The D800 is looking like a beast of a camera for Stills and video!

Thank goodness i'm not in a rush to buy a camera at the moment, so I can wait for the coming trade shows and see what Panny does with the GH3.  Very exciting times. 

[Gabe]

Amaaaazing. Wow!! The crop mode on the D4 is truly incredible.  It's a perfectly detailed 1080p image! Imagine combing that with the Atomos Ninja- you would be totally set...and also broke.  The 2.7x factor on all your lens might be difficult to work around though.  A 24mm lens would effectively act like a 65mm lens.  Not too much leeway if you need to get a wide shot in a tight location.

Really it's a brilliant, creative solution by Nikon and they deserve major props for it.  Of course Canon has considered this option as well, and could easily have added it to the 5DmIII but no, they have to protect their C300.

Too bad they couldn't include it on the D800, but the crop factor would probably be even larger than the D4's 2.7, since the D800 has 36 megapixels vs D4's 16.2.  Probably to the point that it isn't practical. 

One thing, I understand the D800 has a cropped DX mode for DX lenses.  I'm curious if recording video in that mode would produce a sharper, more detailed image since it's downscaling less pixels.  Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Competition- I love it!  Nikon has really stepped up their game.  With the D4's Crop Mode, Uncompressed 4:2:2 HDMI out, and the classy downscaling of the D800, I think Nikon has a very strong advantage over Canon in terms of DSLR video.  Though Canon's DSLR may produce nicer colors and of course less moire and aliasing.

That being said, I'm still waiting for a proper color charts test of the D800 vs the 5DmIII head to head before making a purchase.  Also needed is a proper color charts test of D800 internal codec vs Atomos Ninja to see how much more resolution and detail is improved by going directly to Pro-Res.  (Sorry but that initial Youtube footage is totally comprised by YouTube's pitiful compression).

[Tim]

[quote author=Andrew Reid - EOSHD link=topic=463.msg2936#msg2936 date=1332634658]
Don't think any D800E video footage is out there yet. But it would almost certainly exaggerate the mild aliasing and moire issue of the D800 not having an anti-aliasing filter over the sensor.
[/quote]

It will be interesting to see how Nikon's post processing solution does. I don't recall seeing any info whether Capture NX2's moire correction will work on video. Does anyone know?

Cheers

[Simco123]

Didnt everyone was saying how soft D800 video is up untill the last few days? What caused the change of heart?
Andrew, my offer still stand if you want to sell your 5DIII ;)

BTW that D4 footage in 2.7 crop looks soft to me. Is someone wearing rose tinted lens?

[jaybirch]

Crop mode looks very nice... but worth noting this is a pre-production model and the guy filming actually says he thinks there is something wrong (with the camera) in full frame mode.

[stevetownsend]

There is an interesting series of tests on Vimeo confirming the best and worst bits of the D4 and Andrew you will appreciate the inclusion of the GH2 comparisons!!

Check the 5 recent contributions. The last one made me smile.

[url=http://vimeo.com/39133379]Nikon D4 test 1/5 : with 5D2 & GH2 -1[/url]
[url=http://vimeo.com/39133500]Nikon D4 test 2/5 : with 5D2 & GH2 -2[/url]
[url=http://vimeo.com/39133762]Nikon D4 test 3/5 : Crop Modes, 4:2:2 output[/url]
[url=http://vimeo.com/39133897]Nikon D4 test 4/5 : HD Crop (2.7x) Only[/url]
[url=http://vimeo.com/39134161]Nikon D4 test 5/5 : in Studio with D800[/url]

Really questioning my hasty but so far unrealised D4 order.

[5DGH]

"Like a printed 36MP still, video is also downsampled to fit in a smaller area – in this case quite dramatically from 36MP to 2MP. The result averages noise across individual pixels to create ‘superpixels’ with less noise so the DXOMark score does bode well for the D800′s video mode relative to the low light prowess of the D4 and D3s video output."

Can you back that up? There's no evidence D800 does downsample 36 to 2MP. None at all.

Andrew, I'm worried that you're becoming more of sensationalist than ever before. You've been making claims that you can't back up, posting false information, changing your claim whenever you encounter something new.

I really think you should think twice when you make a unsupported claim.

[FilmMan]

In defense of Andrew, he's giving his opinon.  He is allowed to change it if warranted.  With respect to the Canon Mark 5D3, I gave it a test run.  It is a nice camera,however, items mentioned by Andrew were apparent. I used quality lenses and tried shooting indoors and outdoors.  In post, pushed the limits for color correcting. 

Low light very good. 
Video does look soft.  I'm not looking for severe "sharpness" but the overall image detail to be better.  I'm not sure if that makes sense.  Video can have a "mushy" feel to it. 

Canon could have upgraded the 5D3 alot more. Canon could easily keep it's leadership in this DSLR market before the new competition arrives...JVC, Kineraw, Sony, Panasonic, etc.  On a business perspective, keep your audience.  Get them to spend money on your product.  Entice them with the deal of the decade before the money is spent on the competition.  Once a person buys a camera, they won't be jumping around and buying for anytime soon. 
A DSLR leads to more revenue due to  batteries, lenses, etc., being bought.  Sure Canon is bringing out a 4K dslr, but will the dinner be already cold? 

[hq]

[quote author=Andrew Reid - EOSHD link=topic=463.msg2927#msg2927 date=1332625656]
$3000 Nikon D800 thrashes flagship $6000 Nikon D4 for video
[/quote]

Of course it does. Even Nikon's own D4 Product Tour video (@ 0:28s)

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vP1x2DbS55E#ws]Nikon D4 Product Tour[/url]

shows a [url=http://jimbrandenburg.blogspot.com/2012/02/nikon-professional-insights-with-jim.html]D800 image[/url] on its LCD when introducing the D4 video capabilities!

The D800 image can be found on [url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/nikonphotostream/6834885055/#in/photostream]"I Am Nikon" Flickr Stream[/url].

You may [url=http://img1.focus-numerique.com/focus/news/Jim_Brandenburg.jpg]download the full resolution D800 image (with EXIF)[/url]. Courtesy of [url=http://www.focus-numerique.com/nikon-d800-24x36-36-3-mpx-4-vps-video-hdtv-1080p-2900-euros-news-3067.html]Focus Numerique[/url].

[AZVideo]

A few more video samples from the D800 are popping up on Vimeo including this one that you can download the original file. Details look pretty good and colors are really nice. Would really love to see how the GH2, D800 and 5D III compair side by side in different low light and highly detailed situations. Currently I have a GH2 and a 5D II. The logical upgrade would be to buy a 5D III, but I am greatly underwhelmed by what I am seeing from it. D800 keeps looking better, but then it is probably not the best low light solution to complement the GH2. At this point I am tempted to unload all my canon gear. Just not liking the direction the company is going. Prices keep going up, but improvements are not keeping pace.
[url=http://player.vimeo.com/video/39120089]Nikon D800 original format file download.[/url]

[bbb]

Not sure how the article could make the d4 look so bad
When I test mine the crop mode & normal mode look very close

Here are two small samples straight out of the camera D4 with 24-104 lens
The full frame I zoomed in & stopped down to match the field of view & depth of field of the crop mode. ( Remember when comparing the two you must stop down a stop or so to match the depth of field of the smaller sensor area otherwise the crop mode will seem slightly sharper because t has a greater depth of field.

[url=http://www.benbritt.com/d4crop.mov]http://www.benbritt.com/d4crop.mov[/url]
[url=http://www.benbritt.com/d4full.mov]http://www.benbritt.com/d4full.mov[/url]

[Axel]

@bbb
Looks good. Allow a few suggestions for further tests. You did'nt "stress the codec" with this barely shivering leaves. Any DSLR would look as good with them. The organic form and colour are very forgiving and no problem for even the lousiest processing. Next time focus on the stone behind the ficus, it's fine sandy structure, then pan left and right. Does it look like natural motion blur or like porridge swashing around? Let the green be completely blurred to see how the compression treats the soft gradients in motion. Does the bokeh show any banding artifacts? You'd see that very well against a brighter, very sharp background. To compare crop mode vs. full mode, rather change position instead of focal length and aperture. Plan a worst case scenario. Every camera has it's weaknesses. The sooner they are identified, the better they are avoided in future. By avoiding them during tests you gain nothing.

[Andrew Reid]

No, D4 grab in article is fully representative. Those leaves are very smooth, hardly any fine detailed. Not a good test subject. Try a wide angle on landscape instead.

[jtography]

Can you confirm if this apples to the internal codec only? Ie, does it also occur on a atomos? That's the setup I've ordered....

[Simco123]

Neither D4 or D800 videos in FX mode are true FF, both are cropped in FX mode.

Ths is a D800 I know it is youtube compression but it still look soft
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSChHncLSeE#ws]Nikon D800 Digital SLR Full HD Video Outdoors 2[/url]