RED Komodo

[IronFilm]

2 hours ago, majoraxis said:

I am more of a 3k for $3k guy anyway... So the future for me is probably 6k for $2k, if and when there is a m4/3 mount version or higher end version with swappable lens mount.

I don't understand why people keep on being so short sighted in offering EF Mount cinema cameras without options for other (shallower!) mounts...  Blackmagic, and even Panasonic!! (who have their own MFT Mount that they should be pushing and promoting!!)

[BTM_Pix]

3 minutes ago, FranciscoB said:

White color cameras are stormtroopers. In reds marketing language. 

Ah right.

Blimey.

 

[ntblowz]

I think most ppl will go for 8K for 4K on R5 as ultimate hybrid photo + video solution.

Though Komodo is on my radar for the SDI output solution in a small package  (unreal virtual wall thingy)

[FranciscoB]

This will probably be a good camera but theres still no info about Dr, what's the downside of choosing global shutter and its too bad it only goes to 40fps on 6k. What will be the crop factor of this sensor? 

 

Anyway, it's not for me. 

[FranciscoB]

What's the Dr of the helium sensor? I saw one article claiming 15.2 but cmon... Close to Alexa then? So around 13 stops for the komodo? 

[Video Hummus]

20 hours ago, FranciscoB said:

What's the Dr of the helium sensor? I saw one article claiming 15.2 but cmon... Close to Alexa then? So around 13 stops for the komodo? 

I’m going to say the same as the C300 mk3.

[FranciscoB]

3 hours ago, Video Hummus said:

I’m going to say the same as the C300 mk3.

Why? What's your evidence for this? 

[FranciscoB]

I'm asking because the dr statements from red have always been a little bit too optimistic and canon states that the c300 mk3 has even greater dr, with 16+ stops. While that sounds great, I have a feeling that it won't be that high on the c300 and with that value the komodo would have the highest dr of the whole company.

[Video Hummus]

3 hours ago, FranciscoB said:

Why? What's your evidence for this? 

They most likely share a sensor or sensor tech from Canon.

 

2 hours ago, FranciscoB said:

I'm asking because the dr statements from red have always been a little bit too optimistic and canon states that the c300 mk3 has even greater dr, with 16+ stops. While that sounds great, I have a feeling that it won't be that high on the c300 and with that value the komodo would have the highest dr of the whole company.

I would take any DR numbers from manufactures with a large pinch of salt as they always seem overly optimistic.

Maybe technically there is 16 stops but they aren’t “real” perceived stops. Most are just hovering an ass hair width above the noise floor.

The C300 Mk3 is probably going to come in around 13 stops like the C500, which is quite good (S1H is 12.7; very impressive showing from Panasonic for its form factor!)

It has been said the Komodo is using a Canon sensor, which is probably using a larger variant of the sensor in the C300. It’s also rumored to have PDAF.

So now we have a RED Camera with:

REDCODE RAW, PDAF Canon sensor.

Very attractive combo if RED can keep their price down below $8,000 dollars. I am not optimistic as the price seems to rise with every tease and with every “feature” they add.

We’ve all heard it but if Panasonic would have added Phase Detect AF to their S1H it would have been a mega hit for $4,000! All of it in a modern mirrorless form factor with a versatile screen and IBIS and weather sealing.

I much prefer S1H size over Canon C100 or the Komodo which needs a butt load of expensive accessories to work. No thanks!

No Canon cripples. No RED accessory-money-pit-of-hell.

They missed an opportunity there.

[FranciscoB]

A global shutter with good dr and noise performance is a great feature. Not something that makes people run to buy the camera but its a good thing. The c300 or the kinefinity edge appeal more to me than this camera.

[Geoff CB]

2 hours ago, Video Hummus said:

They most likely share a sensor or sensor tech from Canon.

 

I would take any DR numbers from manufactures with a large pinch of salt as they always seem overly optimistic.

Maybe technically there is 16 stops but they aren’t “real” perceived stops. Most are just hovering an ass hair width above the noise floor.

The C300 Mk3 is probably going to come in around 13 stops like the C500, which is quite good (S1H is 12.7; very impressive showing from Panasonic for its form factor!)

It has been said the Komodo is using a Canon sensor, which is probably using a larger variant of the sensor in the C300. It’s also rumored to have PDAF.

So now we have a RED Camera with:

REDCODE RAW, PDAF Canon sensor.

Very attractive combo if RED can keep their price down below $8,000 dollars. I am not optimistic as the price seems to rise with every tease and with every “feature” they add.

We’ve all heard it but if Panasonic would have added Phase Detect AF to their S1H it would have been a mega hit for $4,000! All of it in a modern mirrorless form factor with a versatile screen and IBIS and weather sealing.

I much prefer S1H size over Canon C100 or the Komodo which needs a butt load of expensive accessories to work. No thanks!

No Canon cripples. No RED accessory-money-pit-of-hell.

They missed an opportunity there.

The sensor in the C300 Mark 3 is explicitly stated to be a dual gain sensor similar to the one found in the Arri Alexa, which creates a much cleaner image compared to even the C500. I highly doubt the komodo will come anywhere close to it's performance, as that would significantly undermine RED's higher end cameras. 

[Mike Mgee]

@Video Hummus Canon claims 16 stops of the C300MKIII but Cinema5D pegged it at around 12.8. Which is 0.1 higher than the S1H. 😕 

[thebrothersthre3]

On 5/19/2020 at 5:50 AM, FranciscoB said:

What's the Dr of the helium sensor? I saw one article claiming 15.2 but cmon... Close to Alexa then? So around 13 stops for the komodo? 

Helium isn't far off from the Alexa probably a stop difference. 

I imagine the Komodo will be around 12.5-13 

The S1H only does 12.7 stops in 6k, and 6k has been shown to have some really heavy NR going on, so once that is cleaned up I am guessing it'll drop back down to 12.3 stops which is what the 4k mode has. Just my guess though. 

The C300 MK3 was rated at 12.9 stops and the C500 MK2 was rated at 13.1 

The S1H has amazing dynamic range either way though. The Pocket 6k even though its rated as less seems to have amazing dynamic range as well, maybe its just the flexibility of RAW that makes it seem higher?

[Mike Mgee]

@thebrothersthre3 The S1H uses noise reduction in 6k, which is illustrated when they compared the S1H Raw vs Internal codec. The S1H vs BMPCC6K is 12.7 vs 11.9 stops. You can see the difference in the highlight rolloff and the "thickness" of the image. You can also tell if you zoom in to around 200%....but that's lame.

[Michael Steiner]

6 hours ago, Video Hummus said:

It has been said the Komodo is using a Canon sensor, which is probably using a larger variant of the sensor in the C300. It’s also rumored to have PDAF.

Where have you read this? From what I know, the people at red so far have always developed their own sensors...? And has Canon ever sold sensors to other manufactors? 

And PDAF is a fact for Komodo, has been demonstrated in a video by Jarred Land already... 

[thebrothersthre3]

3 hours ago, Mike Mgee said:

@thebrothersthre3 The S1H uses noise reduction in 6k, which is illustrated when they compared the S1H Raw vs Internal codec. The S1H vs BMPCC6K is 12.7 vs 11.9 stops. You can see the difference in the highlight rolloff and the "thickness" of the image. You can also tell if you zoom in to around 200%....but that's lame.

The S1H in 6k H265 200mbps was measured at 12.7 stops. A measurement should be taken using prores RAW. I am sure highlights clip at the same point as indicated in that article. However Prores RAW is going to have nosier shadows then H265 internal. That is going to mean a drop in the dynamic range measurement. 

Highlight roll off isn't really an issue with RAW as you can make the highlights roll off anyway you want. I'd think you'll see a much thicker image coming out of the Pocket 6k as its using 12 bit log which is closer to 16 bit unlike Panasonic's linear 12 bit prores RAW. 

[androidlad]

11 minutes ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

The S1H in 6k H265 200mbps was measured at 12.7 stops. A measurement should be taken using prores RAW. I am sure highlights clip at the same point as indicated in that article. However Prores RAW is going to have nosier shadows then H265 internal. That is going to mean a drop in the dynamic range measurement. 

Highlight roll off isn't really an issue with RAW as you can make the highlights roll off anyway you want. I'd think you'll see a much thicker image coming out of the Pocket 6k as its using 12 bit log which is closer to 16 bit unlike Panasonic's linear 12 bit prores RAW. 

BMD's 12bit log encoded RAW is simply a container format, the sensor readout on the Pocket 6K is 12bit linear, it does not become thicker when put into a different container.

While ARRI's 12bit log encoded RAW is derived from 14bit linear readout, now that's real thick.

[thebrothersthre3]

24 minutes ago, androidlad said:

BMD's 12bit log encoded RAW is simply a container format, the sensor readout on the Pocket 6K is 12bit linear, it does not become thicker when put into a different container.

While ARRI's 12bit log encoded RAW is derived from 14bit linear readout, now that's real thick.

Ah shit I thought the 6k used the same dual gain feature as the Ursa mini, my bad. I guess it just comes down to full frame vs S35. Roger Deakins has commented how he thinks the larger format Alexa 65 is richer than Arris S35 cameras. 

[IronFilm]

3 hours ago, Michi said:

Where have you read this? From what I know, the people at red so far have always developed their own sensors...?

And RED has been proven to often lie.... 

[thebrothersthre3]

If RED can deliver a good product with the Komodo, I don’t think they’ll have a problem. RED got a bad rep, although they still have no lack of fanboys, from putting out proprietary products with no actual advantage. This could change it.