Upgrading from the Panasonic G7

[IronFilm]

51 minutes ago, EphraimP said:

No need for one of those shooting interviews for nonprofit/small corporate gigs.

I dunno.... it isn't unusual to see that kind of gear on small corporate gigs. 

[kye]

3 hours ago, stv said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I can almost feel the "Australian" heat in that second image.

With my level of skill and the amount of shooting I actually do, a Canon IXUS is probably more than sufficient for my needs. However, buying new gear is like half the fun of shooting!

That said, I've managed to make it through Black Friday without the purchase of a new camera. Thanks for help guys. 

No worries!

Yes, that's a very small taste of the Australian heat..  It's 40C today (104F) and it's what, the third day of summer?  

2 hours ago, EphraimP said:

Affordable he says. Good one ?

 

LOL, yeah, $1000+ for a 1200W light doesn't seem too affordable to me either.

At least, compared to the 1000W Halogen lighting setups you can get from a hardware store for a tiny fraction of that cost, it seems expensive.  I know they're not the same, but getting 40% of the capability for 5% of the price still seems like good value for money in comparison!

[stv]

4 hours ago, kye said:

Yes, that's a very small taste of the Australian heat..  It's 40C today (104F) and it's what, the third day of summer?  

Hah! Thought so! Those pavers just shout Australian backyard to me.

40C? Mate, are you from Perth? It hit 42C here in Perth today. Hopefully it's not like this for the next 3-4 months.

[tupp]

5 hours ago, kye said:

LOL, yeah, $1000+ for a 1200W light doesn't seem too affordable to me either.

US$1,200 for a 1200 watt HMI is a huge bargain (provided that it works safely and reliably).

 

 

5 hours ago, kye said:

At least, compared to the 1000W Halogen lighting setups you can get from a hardware store for a tiny fraction of that cost, it seems expensive.  I know they're not the same, but getting 40% of the capability for 5% of the price still seems like good value for money in comparison!

The desire to go with hardware store fixtures is understandable, but it is best to avoid them.  The controllability and flexibility of many movie lights is primarily what makes them useful on film sets.  Often, the light controls on the fixture are more important than the core of the fixture.

 

So, you are getting much less than 40% of the capability with the hardware store fixtures.  Instead, look for used film lighting fixtures.

[newfoundmass]

7 hours ago, EphraimP said:

Moral of the story? I'd like to be a big boy someday and have lights big enough to shine through a window to light my scenes someday... Maybe.

You can buy a cheap fresnel which might help! It'll intensify the 60W quite a bit. I'm eyeing one myself. 

7 hours ago, EphraimP said:

Affordable he says. Good one ?

In the grand scheme of things it actually is pretty affordable! But only if you're doing this full time on a much bigger scale! Those are the kind of lights that'll last for a long, long time. Whereas if the Godox only lasts me 5 years (I don't think it will, it's really well built) I'll be really annoyed but at the end of the day I only spent $100 on it (got 3 for $100 each!) so I can't complain too much, that one you know it'll go you for years and years. 

Lighting is usually a smart long term investment. An example: My buddy Matt works in NYC doing grip and lighting for TV networks in the area. He's plugged into that scene, and he regularly sees lights that are being given away as studios/networks/etc. upgrade their lighting set up. You're probably thinking "giving away? That doesn't sound like a smart investment!" The thing is these are 20 or 30 year old lights! And they still work! They've gotten their monies worth 100x over on the original investment. People have pieced together light kits that would've cost over $100k 25 years ago, for free, because there's such an abundance of these things all over the place!

[thebrothersthre3]

9 hours ago, EphraimP said:

 

Funny story. I bought the Godox 60w and did a fan replacement (taught myself to solder along the way). The noise definitely went down, and I'm only using it for interviews so no flicker worries at 1/48 shutter speed. It's bright enough for one or two light interview setups, but I don't think it's powerful enough to blast through a window, unless for something like an intimate kitchen or bathroom scene.

Then I went and got a Ninja V. That fan is way noisier than the original 60w's was.

Moral of the story? I'd like to be a big boy someday and have lights big enough to shine through a window to light my scenes someday... Maybe.

I just got this set https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1110971-REG/savage_led2000k_2000w_location_light_kit.html 

so it'll be interesting to see how bright they are. Seems overpriced new but they had them used on Adorama for $300. 

[IronFilm]

7 hours ago, tupp said:

US$1,200 for a 1200 watt HMI is a huge bargain (provided that it works safely and reliably).

 

Finally, someone gets it. 

In fact "insane" bargain might be more accurate than huge bargain. 

This is from Came-TV's "economic" line though, which I think means its ballast is a lot noisier than their more expensive ones? Not too sure, wish there were more than a small handful of reviews out there of them

 

[kye]

8 hours ago, stv said:

Hah! Thought so! Those pavers just shout Australian backyard to me.

40C? Mate, are you from Perth? It hit 42C here in Perth today. Hopefully it's not like this for the next 3-4 months.

Yep!  Both to being in Perth and also about the pavers  

7 hours ago, tupp said:

US$1,200 for a 1200 watt HMI is a huge bargain (provided that it works safely and reliably).

 

 

The desire to go with hardware store fixtures is understandable, but it is best to avoid them.  The controllability and flexibility of many movie lights is primarily what makes them useful on film sets.  Often, the light controls on the fixture are more important than the core of the fixture.

 

So, you are getting much less than 40% of the capability with the hardware store fixtures.  Instead, look for used film lighting fixtures.

If I used lighting for making films then yes, $1000 would hardly be a significant investment (look at people thumbing their nose at 4K cameras now because they're not 6K, and think about what those 6K cameras cost).  

I'd argue that the biggest value you get from having a light is that it's not dark any more and you can see the people in your footage, but then I'd just be being argumentative ???

[IronFilm]

19 minutes ago, kye said:

If I used lighting for making films then yes, $1000 would hardly be a significant investment (look at people thumbing their nose at 4K cameras now because they're not 6K, and think about what those 6K cameras cost).  

Nope, missing my point 
HMI lights are common place on even quite small shoots, where 1080 / 2K / 4K is completely normal. (I don't think I've even been on a 6K shoot at all?? And I'm pretty busy working on all sorts of productions)
 

21 minutes ago, kye said:

I'd argue that the biggest value you get from having a light is that it's not dark any more and you can see the people in your footage, but then I'd just be being argumentative ???

Nooooo..... not at all! 
Getting exposure right is but a small part of using lights, it is for crafting the look you want. 

[IronFilm]

7 hours ago, newfoundmass said:

In the grand scheme of things it actually is pretty affordable! But only if you're doing this full time on a much bigger scale! Those are the kind of lights that'll last for a long, long time. Whereas if the Godox only lasts me 5 years (I don't think it will, it's really well built) I'll be really annoyed but at the end of the day I only spent $100 on it (got 3 for $100 each!) so I can't complain too much, that one you know it'll go you for years and years. 

If you're able to charge full rental rates for an HMI and get even only semi regular work, then that chinese 1.2KW HMI will be paid back in a matter of months, not years. 

 

9 hours ago, newfoundmass said:

Lighting is usually a smart long term investment. An example: My buddy Matt works in NYC doing grip and lighting for TV networks in the area. He's plugged into that scene, and he regularly sees lights that are being given away as studios/networks/etc. upgrade their lighting set up. You're probably thinking "giving away? That doesn't sound like a smart investment!" The thing is these are 20 or 30 year old lights! And they still work! They've gotten their monies worth 100x over on the original investment. People have pieced together light kits that would've cost over $100k 25 years ago, for free, because there's such an abundance of these things all over the place!

Yup, the hot heavy tungsten lights were the standard for many many many years, but people are in the midst of moving away from them now, which means we've got opportunities to pick up those kits for a song if you've got the connections! 

[EphraimP]

12 hours ago, tupp said:

US$1,200 for a 1200 watt HMI is a huge bargain (provided that it works safely and reliably).

 

5 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Finally, someone gets it. 

In fact "insane" bargain might be more accurate than huge bargain. 

This is from Came-TV's "economic" line though, which I think means its ballast is a lot noisier than their more expensive ones? Not too sure, wish there were more than a small handful of reviews out there of them

 

The subtlety of my ironic intent was lost in translation to the Internets. I get that the Came light is actually a good deal compared to Arri or other high end lights. On the other hand, I've spent somewhere between 6-8K or more on film gear this year for about 4k of work, aside from the shooting I do at my day job. So every new piece of "affordable gear" that I come across adds up.

And it's ok; I'm happy to spend on gear as I get jobs. I'm putting kit together while I have the day job so I can make the jump to full time video production and have a decent little one man band operation. I've still got to drop on a purpose built editing machine and 4k display, so I can quit editing on a two-year-old gamer laptop and 1080 tv.
 

I understand the value of good lighting, and I'll eventually pick up higher quality fixtures when I know they'll pay for themselves. Right now, the crappy little Chinese COB light is serving its purpose. And to people who couldn't tell the difference between a Neewer light and a Mole-Richardson package, it looks pro.

11 hours ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

I just got this set https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1110971-REG/savage_led2000k_2000w_location_light_kit.html 

so it'll be interesting to see how bright they are. Seems overpriced new but they had them used on Adorama for $300. 

I'd be interested to know if the whole package is usable, including the light stands themselves. And if you end up modding them like folks in the B&H reviews did to get rid of the color cast to the lights and the fan noise.

 

[IronFilm]

58 minutes ago, EphraimP said:

The subtlety of my ironic intent was lost in translation to the Internets. I get that the Came light is actually a good deal compared to Arri or other high end lights. On the other hand, I've spent somewhere between 6-8K or more on film gear this year for about 4k of work, aside from the shooting I do at my day job. So every new piece of "affordable gear" that I come across adds up.

 

Ah right, so basically is at a hobby level for you at the moment ($4K/yr revenue).

Are you doing shooting at work? You should be talking your boss then into buying more gear! ?

[EphraimP]

2 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Are you doing shooting at work? You should be talking your boss then into buying more gear! ?

You ever work for a nonprofit? It's like squeezing liquid from a stone. And I know, cause I gotta get the liquid in the stone in the first place.

Actually, though, I just got them to buy a bit of gear for my next project, coupla drives and a Mixpre3 ii, a year's subscription to Artlist and insurance for my gear. I put a wireless mic on the expense list, but it got stripped out. I'm going to see if I can get it put back in if I get more funding for the project.

 

It's hobby level for now, hopefully I'll be able to launch a business for real when in six months to a year.

[kye]

8 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Nope, missing my point 
HMI lights are common place on even quite small shoots, where 1080 / 2K / 4K is completely normal. (I don't think I've even been on a 6K shoot at all?? And I'm pretty busy working on all sorts of productions)

We're agreeing

I'm saying that $1k is nothing compared to what people are spending on upgrading cameras that are already fine (and those cameras were to replace other cameras that were probably also fine)!

[ac6000cw]

18 minutes ago, kye said:

I'm saying that $1k is nothing compared to what people are spending on upgrading cameras that are already fine (and those cameras were to replace other cameras that were probably also fine)!

But that upgrading is what pays for the development costs of the new cameras - if people didn't buy them there wouldn't be A7IV/EOS-R/S1/Z6 etc. to drool over... ? (nor would there be loads of cheap second-hand camera bodies available for those on a tight budget).

[IronFilm]

34 minutes ago, ac6000cw said:

But that upgrading is what pays for the development costs of the new cameras - if people didn't buy them there wouldn't be A7IV/EOS-R/S1/Z6 etc. to drool over... ? (nor would there be loads of cheap second-hand camera bodies available for those on a tight budget).

That is why the mk2 for the FS7/FS5 were basically nonexistence with their updates, because they were "too good"

DItto why it is so long for a D750 / a7S mk2 / etc sequel to come out 

[kye]

3 hours ago, ac6000cw said:

But that upgrading is what pays for the development costs of the new cameras - if people didn't buy them there wouldn't be A7IV/EOS-R/S1/Z6 etc. to drool over... ? (nor would there be loads of cheap second-hand camera bodies available for those on a tight budget).

Your argument is circular...  here's what happens if we run the loop backwards:

If people didn't want to drool over new cameras then no-one would need to pay for the development of them.  If no R&D budgets were needed to be re-couped then products would be cheaper as we could just keep making the old ones, and also with economies of scale they would also get cheaper over time.  Therefore, it's people wanting to drool over new tech that prevents cheap cameras being available to people on a tight budget.