Sony A7III SLog2

[Mark Romero 2]

  On 12/6/2019 at 7:22 AM, Attila Bakos said:

Colorizer.net is my stuff, thanks @Deadcode for mentioning it. I also have Fuji film simulation LUTs specially designed for S-Log2/S-Gamut3.cine, if you're interested. (I used an A6300 for the conversions.)

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Does your custom IDT work for Acesscct as well as Acesscc??? 

[Attila Bakos]

  On 12/7/2019 at 5:32 AM, Mark Romero 2 said:

Does your custom IDT work for Acesscct as well as Acesscc??? 

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The IDT is the entry point for ACES, it linearizes the clips and converts to the color space to ACES AP0. Then ACES will convert this to a logarithmic gamma (either ACEScc or ACEScct in Resolve, whichever you choose), and to AP1 color space. So yes, you can use the IDT with both.

[Mark Romero 2]

  On 12/7/2019 at 6:01 AM, Attila Bakos said:

The IDT is the entry point for ACES, it linearizes the clips and converts to the color space to ACES AP0. Then ACES will convert this to a logarithmic gamma (either ACEScc or ACEScct in Resolve, whichever you choose), and to AP1 color space. So yes, you can use the IDT with both.

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Thanks!

[thebrothersthre3]

  On 12/6/2019 at 10:15 PM, Deadcode said:

Only beginners and Premiere users are crying about banding issues with slog2 ?

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You are saying Premiere causing banding in slog2? That probably makes up for like half the people who own an A73. 

[Deadcode]

  On 12/7/2019 at 6:13 AM, thebrothersthre3 said:

You are saying Premiere causing banding in slog2? That probably makes up for like half the people who own an A73. 

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We were talking about it several times.

Slog2-sgamut3.cine is good most of the time, even with deep blue sky.

Slog2-sgamut is much nore sensitive to banding issues.

Both will be problematic in premiere, but sgamut3.cine is fine in resolve.

Im talking about correctly exposed 4K footage in proper WB.

Underexposed 1080p sh*t with wrong WB will band like hell, the dark footage is noisy, which is smearing due to noise reduction artifacts, which will cause banding. Just keep everything important higher than 40IRE.

Know your camera.

[Mark Romero 2]

  On 12/7/2019 at 6:01 AM, Attila Bakos said:

The IDT is the entry point for ACES, it linearizes the clips and converts to the color space to ACES AP0. Then ACES will convert this to a logarithmic gamma (either ACEScc or ACEScct in Resolve, whichever you choose), and to AP1 color space. So yes, you can use the IDT with both.

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You should probably send a Thank You card to @Deadcode because he helped me decide to try your IDT.

Do we still need to expose slog 2 at approximately 2 stops over?  [EDIT: Just saw @Deadcode post above this about keeping important stuff at 40IRE or higher.]

I usually just set my zebras to 106 and open up until I just barely see zebras, and then close down the aperture 1/3 of a stop to play it safe since an individual color channel might clip but not trigger the zebras. Wish sony cameras had two zebra levels so I could monitor both highlights and shadows. My HDMI monitor zebra only goes as high as 15IRE for the low value, so I don't think I can set a zebra for below 40IRE

  On 12/7/2019 at 8:21 AM, Deadcode said:

We were talking about it several times.

Slog2-sgamut3.cine is good most of the time, even with deep blue sky.

Slog2-sgamut is much nore sensitive to banding issues.

Both will be problematic in premiere, but sgamut3.cine is fine in resolve.

Im talking about correctly exposed 4K footage in proper WB.

Underexposed 1080p sh*t with wrong WB will band like hell, the dark footage is noisy, which is smearing due to noise reduction artifacts, which will cause banding. Just keep everything important higher than 40IRE.

Know your camera.

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QUESTION:

Suppose you have a sky that you KNOW is going to blow out. Maybe it is a sunset, or just really strong backlighting.

In those situations, would it make sense to use SLOG 3 instead of SLOG 2 to avoid super-saturating the highlights, since (from what I understand) SLOG 3 curve is more similar to Cineon Log / Arri LOG C and they tend to reduce saturation in the highlights.

I can live with a big yellow detail-less ball in the sky at sunset. I just don't want a dark brown ring around it.

(It's raining here for the next few days so can't even test it out myself.)

[Attila Bakos]

  On 12/7/2019 at 8:22 AM, Mark Romero 2 said:

You should probably send a Thank You card to @Deadcode because he helped me decide to try your IDT.

Do we still need to expose slog 2 at approximately 2 stops over? 

I usually just set my zebras to 106 and open up until I just barely see zebras, and then close down the aperture 1/3 of a stop to play it safe since an individual color channel might clip but not trigger the zebras.

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I actually know @Deadcode, we help each other where we can
ACES won't force you to change the way you expose, it will actually be easier to correct an overexposed image. The offset wheel's effect is very close to a true exposure controller in ACES.

[Deadcode]

  On 12/7/2019 at 8:22 AM, Mark Romero 2 said:

You should probably send a Thank You card to @Deadcode because he helped me decide to try your IDT.

Do we still need to expose slog 2 at approximately 2 stops over?  [EDIT: Just saw @Deadcode post above this about keeping important stuff at 40IRE or higher.]

I usually just set my zebras to 106 and open up until I just barely see zebras, and then close down the aperture 1/3 of a stop to play it safe since an individual color channel might clip but not trigger the zebras. Wish sony cameras had two zebra levels so I could monitor both highlights and shadows. My HDMI monitor zebra only goes as high as 15IRE for the low value, so I don't think I can set a zebra for below 40IRE

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106 zebras is like shooting ETTR all the time, and works flawlessly most of the time, stay with that. 

If you are working in ACES, you can shift the exposure like in Lightroom, just dial down the offset wheel, to get proper brightness. ACES will handle the shadow/highlight rolloff.

Secret tip: try those highlight/shadow sliders under lift/gamma/gain. Its siiiickk....

[Mark Romero 2]

  On 12/7/2019 at 8:33 AM, Attila Bakos said:

I actually know @Deadcode, we help each other where we can
ACES won't force you to change the way you expose, it will actually be easier to correct an overexposed image. The offset wheel's effect is very close to a true exposure controller in ACES.

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Thanks! 

Speaking of the offset wheel in resolve...

I've heard from somewhere (maybe on liftgammagain) that if you are just going to make a luminance adjustment, better to go into the primary bars and use the Y bar to adjust (and not the wheel / dial at the bottom). I have no idea why it would be different than sliding the horizontal dial under the primary wheels / primary bars. Any thoughts on that? 

  On 12/7/2019 at 8:35 AM, Deadcode said:

106 zebras is like shooting ETTR all the time, and works flawlessly most of the time, stay with that. 

If you are working in ACES, you can shift the exposure like in Lightroom, just dial down the offset wheel, to get proper brightness. ACES will handle the shadow/highlight rolloff.

Secret tip: try those highlight/shadow sliders under lift/gamma/gain. Its siiiickk....

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THANKS!!!

[Mako Sports]

I feel like 106 is wayy to high. Alister Chapman and Doug Jensen (Sony xdcam gods) reccomended around 75 ire for both slog 2/3 I find it works better than doing that standard 100+ for bright white. Especially if its something like an interview with skin.

[Deadcode]

  On 12/7/2019 at 8:39 AM, Mako Sports said:

I feel like 106 is wayy to high. Alister Chapman and Doug Jensen (Sony xdcam gods) reccomended around 75 ire for both slog 2/3 I find it works better than doing that standard 100+ for bright white. Especially if its something like an interview with skin.

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I have tested this several times. If you are working in ACES, you will get almost the same image regardless of your exposure.( after compensation) The only difference is the noise.

[Mark Romero 2]

  On 12/7/2019 at 8:39 AM, Mako Sports said:

I feel like 106 is wayy to high. Alister Chapman and Doug Jensen (Sony xdcam gods) reccomended around 75 ire for both slog 2/3 I find it works better than doing that standard 100+ for bright white. Especially if its something like an interview with skin.

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Maybe I mis-typed / wasn't clear.

Basically, I set zebras to 106 and expose to the right until the BRIGHTEST thing clips (at 106 IRE). Then bring down 1/3rd stop.

As @Deadcodenoted, it is basically exposing to the right... just as far to the right as one can go without clipping the brightest thing in the scene.

[Attila Bakos]

  On 12/7/2019 at 8:37 AM, Mark Romero 2 said:

Speaking of the offset wheel in resolve...

I've heard from somewhere (maybe on liftgammagain) that if you are just going to make a luminance adjustment, better to go into the primary bars and use the Y bar to adjust (and not the wheel / dial at the bottom). I have no idea why it would be different than sliding the horizontal dial under the primary wheels / primary bars. Any thoughts on that?

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The value of Y (luminance) in the lift/gamma/gain bars is calculated from R, G, B (each channel has a different weight in the calculation, green has the most), it's an additional controller that helps you to change luminance without changing chroma, so yes, if all you need is a luminance adjustment, try and see if it works better than using the wheel. The wheel adjusts all three color channels equally.

[Deadcode]

  On 12/7/2019 at 8:39 AM, Mako Sports said:

I feel like 106 is wayy to high. Alister Chapman and Doug Jensen (Sony xdcam gods) reccomended around 75 ire for both slog 2/3 I find it works better than doing that standard 100+ for bright white. Especially if its something like an interview with skin.

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Sidenote: those gods know what are they saying, but they are working with cinema cameras. The noise floor is different and you can turn off the noise reduction. And 10 bit / raw.

Mr. Chapman wrote a long article about exposing to the right with A7s long time ago.

Tip: check the FX9 graded Slog3 ISO test on ProAV TV channel. It's noisy as hell... but the colors are good.

[Mako Sports]

Interesting, I'll shoot some test clips with both cameras @ 90 ire on my next day off then.

[Rinad Amir]

  On 12/6/2019 at 10:19 PM, androidlad said:

You must be based in Dublin ?

So am I.

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Am indeed mate???

[Mako Sports]

Was able to shoot some test shots today. Exposed at 85 ire this time. Once again I shot Slog 2 - S gamut3.cine in camera. Used color space transform in Davinci Resolve Studio. Uploaded both Luts also.

Image 1. Color space transform conversion from Slog 2 to Slog 3

Image 2. XDCAM user Sony Venice - Slog 3 rec 709 look/lut

Image 3. XDCAM user creative lut. (Fuji SL2 1 Stop over) 

 

ACFujish1-SL2-1OVER.cubeFetching info... AC-SL3-to-709-2OVER.cubeFetching info...

[Mark Romero 2]

  On 12/9/2019 at 2:08 AM, Mako Sports said:

Was able to shoot some test shots today. Exposed at 85 ire this time. Once again I shot Slog 2 - S gamut3.cine in camera. Used color space transform in Davinci Resolve Studio. Uploaded both Luts also.

Image 1. Color space transform conversion from Slog 2 to Slog 3

Image 2. XDCAM user Sony Venice - Slog 3 rec 709 look/lut

Image 3. XDCAM user creative lut. (Fuji SL2 1 Stop over) 

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Thanks for posting the photos and the workflow.

Is there any benefit to shooting in SLOG 2 and then using CST to transform to SLOG 3? ( As opposed to just shooting in SLOG 3 to begin with?)

[Dave Del Real]

  On 12/9/2019 at 2:08 AM, Mako Sports said:

Was able to shoot some test shots today. Exposed at 85 ire this time. Once again I shot Slog 2 - S gamut3.cine in camera. Used color space transform in Davinci Resolve Studio. Uploaded both Luts also.

Image 1. Color space transform conversion from Slog 2 to Slog 3

Image 2. XDCAM user Sony Venice - Slog 3 rec 709 look/lut

Image 3. XDCAM user creative lut. (Fuji SL2 1 Stop over) 

 

ACFujish1-SL2-1OVER.cube 947.83 kB · 0 downloads AC-SL3-to-709-2OVER.cube 994.93 kB · 0 downloads

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Thanks for posting.

Did you adjust any other settings in camera? Or is it default SLog2 but with SGamut3.Cine?

[Mako Sports]

  On 12/9/2019 at 2:51 AM, Mark Romero 2 said:

Thanks for posting the photos and the workflow.

Is there any benefit to shooting in SLOG 2 and then using CST to transform to SLOG 3? ( As opposed to just shooting in SLOG 3 to begin with?)

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less likely to have banding with slog 2 than slog 3 with 8 bit recording. Also Slog 3 is a cineon log curve whilst slog 2 isn't, that's why most people will say slog 3 is easier to grade. 

Essentially shooting Slog 2 so there's less of a chance with artifacts and banding, then switch to slog 3 in post because its easier to grade. 

 

  On 12/9/2019 at 3:00 AM, Dave Del Real said:

Thanks for posting.

Did you adjust any other settings in camera? Or is it default SLog2 but with SGamut3.Cine?

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only other thing I changed was instead of the standard -7 detail/sharpness setting, I bring it up to zero. 

I personally prefer a more sharper clinical look.