Canon EOS 1D MKIII specs revealed

[gt3rs]

17 minutes ago, Django said:

No AF on 6K RAW & 4K60p seems like reasonable compromises for everything else you’re getting.

Hopefully they will have DPAF at least on 4k60p cropped so the same as 1Dx II....
I understand the challenge to have DPAF on RAW although the C500 II can do it but it also has cooling fan and almost 3 times the cost.

[androidlad]

35 minutes ago, Django said:

1DX II didn’t have Log so I think we can expect better DR in this model.

Overall pretty great specs imo. Looks like we’ll finally get FF 4K no crop on a Canon hybrid.

6K RAW internal is a pretty big surprise and if FF no crop a class leading feature on a hybrid system.

No AF on 6K RAW & 4K60p seems like reasonable compromises for everything else you’re getting.

Canon Log is just a tone curve, it doesn't increase DR, as demonstrated by the comparison between 1DC and 1DX II, their DR is exactly the same.

RAW is 5.4K.

[Django]

C-Log should definitely add an extra stop of DR. Usually around 12 stops on Canon DSLRs. Raw should give you extra wiggle room so perhaps 13.

[androidlad]

13 minutes ago, Django said:

C-Log should definitely add an extra stop of DR. Usually around 12 stops on Canon DSLRs. Raw should give you extra wiggle room so perhaps 13.

No and no.

https://***URL not allowed***/canon-1d-x-mark-ii-vs-canon-1d-c-which-one-shoots-better-video/

[Django]

all that test shows is that 2016 1DX II footage has similar DR to the 2013 1DC using CLog1. 

not sure how you make the jump to the 2020 1DX3 having similar DR even though it's a new sensor and camera that can shoot Clog2 & RAW, none of which the aforementioned cameras could do.

[androidlad]

5 minutes ago, Django said:

all that test shows is that the 2016 1DX II sensor has similar DR to the 2013 1DC sensor using CLog1. 

not sure how you make the jump to the 2020 1DX3 having similar DR even though it's a new sensor and camera that can shoot Clog2 & RAW, none of which the aforementioned cameras could do.

1. It's the same sensor with a refreshed logic layer for faster readout, it has little if any impact on DR, do you fall for that marketing BS?

2. The spec sheet is already out, it shoots original Canon Log and RAW is 12bit ADC, and RAW always has lower DR due to almost complete absence of NR.

3. Based on all available evidence and common sense, it's very unlikely for the DR to exceed 1DX II, which is 11 stops.

[habeel]

9 minutes ago, androidlad said:

. It's the same sensor with a refreshed logic layer for faster readout, it has little if any impact on DR, do you fall for that marketing BS?

The 1DC is a 18MP sensor while the 1DX is a 20 MP sensor. So how  are they the same, am i missing something?

 

13 minutes ago, androidlad said:

2. The spec sheet is already out, it shoots original Canon Log and RAW is 12bit ADC, and RAW always has lower DR due to almost complete absence of NR.

But doesn't log footage come from RAW, the diff being in one situation the camera does the processing, in the case of raw you can select clog 2 or 3 etc in the post in your editing software.

Also RAW has more DR since you are able to bring back data from either the shadows or the highlights. Again is there something i am missing or confused about?

 

[Django]

Don't forget it's 5.6K RAW so downscaling to 4K should give better signal to noise ratio (hence increased DR).

Anyways I guess we'll have to wait for real-world tests to find out..

[androidlad]

3 minutes ago, Django said:

Don't forget it's 5.6K RAW so downscaling to 4K should give better signal to noise ratio (hence increased DR).

Anyways I guess we'll have to wait for real-world tests to find out..

DR testing for video looks at pixel-level, it's resolution agnostic.

Otherwise we can downscale to 0.4K and have 20+ stops of DR.

[mercer]

So raw has less DR due to lack of noise reduction? Downscaling reduces noise. No benefit in DR.

[Django]

^ lol.. I'm confused as well.

here is what cinema5d (which is the site androidlad used for his DR assessment) has to say about their own DR tests:

One word about image scaling: if you scale the Sony FS7 image from UHD to full HD (1920×1080), you get an increased dynamic range in IMATEST of about 0.3 stops in the Sony FS7 example (resulting in 12.4 stops), as the downscaling averages 4 UHD pixels into 1 FHD pixel thus lowering the noise. Another argument for 4k acquisition and 2k delivery.

What happens by downscaling and how is the dynamic range increased?

Well, the signal value of four neighboring pixels has a high degree of correlation (luminance will be roughly the same), whereas noise for those pixels in general should show no correlation as it is random. 

Now, by downscaling (or averaging) four pixels of an 3840×2160 image to 1 pixel of an 1920×1080 image the signal value should stay very much the same, but the noise value will reduce because noise is random (uncorrelated), hence averaging (or in mathematical terms the root mean square value of noise which is measured in the recorded image) scales with the inverse square root of the number of samples that we average.

Hence 4 pixels into 1 gives a factor of two (sqrt(4)=2) higher signal to noise (SNR) ratio. Higher signal to noise ratio for a given luminance = higher dynamic range.  

The cinema5D Camera Lab is Back – Dynamic Range Tests

 

also interesting to note there an increase in DR with h265 10-bit intra vs h264 and a full stop of gain from UHD h264 (12,1) to h265 UHD->FHD (13)  in the XT3 results.

 

[wolf33d]

Wait, the multi year old 1DX II does 4K60p (with small crop) WITH DPAF but the Mark III cannot? Must be either another joke from Canon or a rumor mistake. 
Regardless, a 1.5kg tank = not interest for me. That’s great to see powerful features like 10 bit, raw, and so on which will push Sony to have at least 10 bit with the A7S III. 

[Django]

10-bit DCI 4K60p, 5.4K RAW.. etc yeah yeah another bad joke from Canon! Thank god Sony is here and will now include 10-bit in the A7S Unicorn. Get with the times, Sony is the new Canon. A7S3 should have dropped 18 months ago, hell they're already on mark IV generation with people still waiting for the mark 2 successor.. ?

[Mako Sports]

1 hour ago, Django said:

10-bit DCI 4K60p, 5.4K RAW.. etc yeah yeah another bad joke from Canon! Thank god Sony is here and will now include 10-bit in the A7S Unicorn. Get with the times, Sony is the new Canon. A7S3 should have dropped 18 months ago, hell they're already on mark IV generation with people still waiting for the mark 2 successor.. ?

Id rather wait another 6 months for the a7siii and it be really solid with great IQ and features than get it tomorrow and be a lackluster/lateral upgrade like the majority of the Canon stuff for the last + decade.

[Mokara]

1 hour ago, Django said:

10-bit DCI 4K60p, 5.4K RAW.. etc yeah yeah another bad joke from Canon! Thank god Sony is here and will now include 10-bit in the A7S Unicorn. Get with the times, Sony is the new Canon. A7S3 should have dropped 18 months ago, hell they're already on mark IV generation with people still waiting for the mark 2 successor.. ?

Since they want it to be a flagship camera there is no point in releasing a half assed upgrade just because. The S models do not sell in large quantities, never have, so an upgrade has to be significant compared to the competition if it is to sell at all. 

The basic problem Sony have is that in order to get that big competitive upgrade they are going to need a new processor, or at least some way of wringing more performance out of their existing processors. Until they have that solution in place they are probably not going to upgrade the camera. In a way it is similar to the basic problem Canon had with their cameras for the longest while, where the video encoders in their Digic processors were not competitive enough, resulting in them not being able to provide video performance comparable to companies like Panasonic and Sony for many years. Which of course caused the mistaken belief in consumers eyes that they were deliberately "crippling" their cameras. Nothing could be further from the truth - no company makes inferior products compared to their competitors versions in a particular market space on purpose - there is always a reason, be it inadequate technology or to implement cost savings.

[Oliver Daniel]

11 hours ago, androidlad said:

*AF is not available when recording RAW or 4K 59.94p/50.00p (NTSC/PAL) movies

If true, what an absolute load of horse shit. I knew this camera would have a cripple in there somewhere. They just can’t help themselves can they?

Dealbreaker. 

[kaylee]

12 minutes ago, Oliver Daniel said:

Dealbreaker

u know what else doesn't have AF when recording raw? my 5D3 ?

[Super8]

On 1/2/2020 at 12:06 PM, Michi said:

It likely will be the same raw format, meaning 1gbs at 4k. There‘s that Red-patent preventing more compressed raw formats...
 

A massiv crop would mean a massiv jump in resolution compared to the 1dx2, so at least that‘s rather unlikely...

But with gotchas or not: this will be a big and pricey camera, probably quite close to the C200. I wonder what kind of videoshooters would prefer a 1D to a C-Line camera. I can see it as a pricey B-Cam for highend shooters. But why pay 5-6k if you can have a Panasonic with comparable specs for less or a C200 with all the benefits for motion pictures for more or less the same price?

Panasonic cameras can't AF at all. They also don't have Canon color, etc, etc.

[kaylee]

6 hours ago, kaylee said:

u know what else doesn't have AF when recording raw? my 5D3 ?

I'm sorry, my intent here was vague at best, I'm with u ?

I mean:  REALLY???? rlly. 2020.

I think that this may be The Last Emperor of canon dslrs... I'm ALL for mirrorless, but this is a lil disappointing... and this is for what, $6k?

raw without AF feels like a hack ?

[IronFilm]

On 1/3/2020 at 2:39 AM, IronFilm said:

Nothing new here, and the only "good" news is what we already know that is:
 

Quote

shoot 4K videos including 4K60p with 10-bit 4:2:2 Canon Log internal recording.

So yay, 10bit internal FINALLY for a Canon DSLR! </s>

But who knows what weird and random "GOTCHA" they're going to give us with this? A massive crop factor? No DPAF in 4K 60fps 10bit? A far too low bitrate? Or the exact opposite and an overly stupidly large bitrate? Something we haven't even thought of yet that is weirdly bizarre and inexplicable, such as omitting audio recording if doing 10bit internal or only allowing it in B&W????

People should have been disappointed enough times now by Canon to stop getting excited by any new Canon launch. Wait until any new Canon product is shipping, and in the hands of independent reviewers, before starting to get excited about it.  (I'm more interested in knowing what the Nikon D780 announcement will be next week)


 

Quote

"Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me". 

 

BOOM! I predicted it. 

No AF during 4K 60p or raw, and hefty heavy bulky files. 

To easy to foresee, is typical Canon behaviour!

Everyone should promise to end this abusive relationship with Canon and promise never to ever return to her, never to give her a penny more. (& definitely not US$6,500 more!!)
 

12 hours ago, Mako Sports said:

Id rather wait another 6 months for the a7siii and it be really solid with great IQ and features than get it tomorrow and be a lackluster/lateral upgrade like the majority of the Canon stuff for the last + decade.

It feels like YEARS people have been saying "another six months until the a7S mk3, I'll just wait...."

Kinda agree with @wolf33d , Sony is turning into the new Canon. 

Let's support Panasonic / BMD / Z Cam / Sigma / Kinefinity / Fuji etc instead! (we're spoiled for choice, no shortage of options to choose instead of Sony!)