New year, New gear

[Alex Uzan]

Hi filmmaker mate,

Best wishes and happy new year for all of you ?

As usual, it's the time of the year when we think about all of great things we hope to accomplish until 2021.
And for some of these things, we need new gear (Not really, but yeah ?)

So this year I've been exclusively shooting with a A7iii for stills, and a GH5 for short movies as well.

I love the Image quality the A7iii can produce, but don't really like using it.
(Can't add a monitor without losing Face detection, can't record externally without losing the a7iii live view).
And I can't have fun grading with 8bits.

So anyway, I'm thinking to separate photos and video, and maybe go the Blackmagic P4k road, with EF lenses, and the Metabones.
But I have some questions, and maybe you can help :
(I know i could probably find my answers on youtube, but I prefer true filmmaker answers)

1) I love the FF 4k from the a7iii, not only about the Bokeh thing, but how everything is modeling.
Will I lose this feelling with the P4k+SB+Ef lenses ?

2) P4k, P6k, my heart want to go 6k, but it seems less reliable.
And the fan more noisy.
But, it already has a EF mount (only APS-C), so the price difference with the 4k is not as important.
Yeah, I don't know ?

3) No ibis, small battery, and needed to be rigged.
But I guess it's a trade. I'm ok with it.
I'm thinking about the Ronin S with the follow focus accessory.
Is any of you use it and is satisfed ?

Really appreciate your help.

Cheers,

[Mark Romero 2]

I don't know if this is helpful or not, but if you like the video image quality of your GH5, then maybe a Panasonic S1 might be usable for you?

It is full frame, has 10-bit, 4K 30fps GOP at 150MBS (no all-i yet, but maybe in a firmware update down the road???). Has HLG-like and full VLOG similar to vericam / EVA1

Great stills camera.

The lenses are pricey... VERY pricey, but good. The 24-105 kit lens is claimed by many to be parafocal and has no focus breathing. I am still testing out mine to confirm (only had it a day so can't say for sure).

Autofocus is NOT in the same league as your a7 III, no matter what anyone says. It is not in the same league as my a6500, and the a7 III is better that the a6500 in terms of AF.

There is a Sigma MC-21 adapter to adapt EF glass to the S1. I have only tested it personally with the Canon 16-35 f/4L and first impressions are that it works fine, except that...

There is no AF-C when using Canon Glass on the MC-21. Only AF-S and Manual focus. Then again,  the BM cameras don't have ANY af-c so there you go...

Manual focus is pretty good when using a native L Mount lens, as it will magnify the area of focus. It isn't so great with a vintage lens. I tried with my Minolta MD Rokkor 50mm f.2 on a "dumb" adapter, and while the LCD screen and EVF are good, the focus peaking is very subtle, and when using a vintage lens on a dumb adapter, there s no magnification.

The Bad News: It is HEAVY.  Very heavy. S1 + 24-105 f/4 = 1,772 grams, or 3 pounds 15 ounces.

The Good news: you can skip Arm Day at the gym now!!!

There are other trade offs too but I don't know the exact technical specs of some of the trade offs. I could be wrong, but I think that the 4K 60p is in Super 35 instead of full frame and it is only 8-bit, but 10-bit if you output to a recorder. I might be totally wrong on this though.

Otherwise, just go out and buy an X-T3 and be happy  ?

[heart0less]

I'm rocking X-T3 with a Zhongyi Speed Booster (Lens Turbo II) and it's an amazing hybrid for the price.

Can't comment on AF, since all the lenses I own are totally manual (believe it or not).

Manual focus assist modes are great and you can choose which you like best (read more about them here:  https://www.jmpeltier.com/fujifilm-manual-focus-assist-modes/ )

 

Video files are a bit hefty (can't play them smoothly on my PC straight out of memory card) thanks to massive amounts of data they provide. It's really difficult to break them.

 

Overall - it's the best camera I've ever had (coming from previous Sony, Panasonic and Samsung NX user).

[IronFilm]

9 hours ago, Alex Uzan said:

So anyway, I'm thinking to separate photos and video, and maybe go the Blackmagic P4k road, with EF lenses, and the Metabones.

What lenses do you have for your GH5? You can use exactly the same lenses on the BMD Pocket 4K? Also consider the Z Cam E2

9 hours ago, Alex Uzan said:

2) P4k, P6k, my heart want to go 6k, but it seems less reliable.
And the fan more noisy.
But, it already has a EF mount (only APS-C), so the price difference with the 4k is not as important.
Yeah, I don't know ?

 

6K has a big price bump! Not worth it in my eyes, 4K is plenty!

And the EF mount is a negative about the 6K, as it will reduce your flexibility. (you won't be able to go as wide / shallow as you could with a 4K  either , if you put a x0.64 focal reducer on the 4K)

 

9 hours ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

The lenses are pricey... VERY pricey, but good.

Once Sigma rolls out their full line up of Sigma lenses for L Mount then that will drop the costs of the L system a lot. 

 

[Alex Uzan]

9 hours ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

I don't know if this is helpful or not, but if you like the video image quality of your GH5, then maybe a Panasonic S1 might be usable for you?

Actually, I don’t ?

Well, i find it good, sharp and balanced, but nothing special to love.
Of course, with a good grade, you can improve a lot of things, that’s true.
but I really prefer the A7iii shots.

I thought about the S1.
Too heavy, too bulky, pricey, and not really mature I think.

8 hours ago, heart0less said:

I'm rocking X-T3 with a Zhongyi Speed Booster (Lens Turbo II) and it's an amazing hybrid for the price.

I already have a X-T3, but only for stills.
I don’t really enjoy to use it for video, since no ibis, bad h265, and battery life in video is not great. Except for 4k60, I found the A7iii better in every way for shooting videos.

[kye]

4 minutes ago, Alex Uzan said:

Actually, I don’t ?

Well, i find it good, sharp and balanced, but nothing special to love.
Of course, with a good grade, you can improve a lot of things, that’s true.
but I really prefer the A7iii shots.

I thought about the S1.
Too heavy, too bulky, pricey, and not really mature I think.

Interesting that you don’t like the GH5 and prefer the A7iii - for most it is the other way around.  Are you shooting log and grading in post or are you shooting a rec709 preset?  I know that the rec709 from the A7iii looks lovely, whereas the GH5 log files are very easy to grade and people struggle with Slog.

In terms of the P4K vs P6K, I agree with @IronFilm about the P4K being the much more flexible option in terms of adapting lenses, but it depends on what lenses you use and like.  For example if you’re going to just use the Sigma 18-35 and 50-100 f1.8 lenses and nothing else then maybe the 6K is a better fit.

Like I say to everyone, get clear on what work you’re trying to do and how you like to work, make a list of your priorities and rank them in order (by asking yourself questions that force you to choose between two priorities) and only then consider what equipment you should buy.  That way you will spend money on things you will use, rather than things that seem cool or that will solve problems you would like to have..

[IronFilm]

30 minutes ago, Alex Uzan said:

I already have a X-T3, but only for stills.
I don’t really enjoy to use it for video, since no ibis, bad h265, and battery life in video is not great. Except for 4k60, I found the A7iii better in every way for shooting videos.

You've got an a7mk3 and GH5 and X-T3??

Three really nice cameras, all of the latest generation!

Maybe slow down a bit and don't buy any new cameras this year? Perhaps even sell one or two of those camera bodies and focus your lenses into just one ecosystem?

19 minutes ago, kye said:

That way you will spend money on things you will use, rather than things that seem cool or that will solve problems you would like to have..

Ah that last part, I let myself fall into that trap now and then in the sound world! Oops

But on one hand, I think it is handy to have solutions ready to go before a problem even presents itself. But on the other hand, I definitely spend too much. 

 

[Alex Uzan]

1 hour ago, IronFilm said:

What lenses do you have for your GH5? You can use exactly the same lenses on the BMD Pocket 4K? Also consider the Z Cam E2

 

6K has a big price bump! Not worth it in my eyes, 4K is plenty!

And the EF mount is a negative about the 6K, as it will reduce your flexibility. (you won't be able to go as wide / shallow as you could with a 4K  either , if you put a x0.64 focal reducer on the 4K)

 

Once Sigma rolls out their full line up of Sigma lenses for L Mount then that will drop the costs of the L system a lot. 

 

I only have the 12-35 2.8 mkII, and the 25 1.7.
Since I only use the GH5 for boring stuff like events, I haven’t put my money on lenses.

About the Apsc EF mount, I’m sure someone will release a speedbooster to enjoy FF lenses.

44 minutes ago, kye said:

Interesting that you don’t like the GH5 and prefer the A7iii - for most it is the other way around.  Are you shooting log and grading in post or are you shooting a rec709 preset?  I know that the rec709 from the A7iii looks lovely, whereas the GH5 log files are very easy to grade and people struggle with Slog.

I’m not sure about that.
what I usually read, is that for most, sony color science is not on par with Canon or Fuji. And with the 8bits limitation, it seems difficult to correct it properly.

I personally disagree with that.
First, the A7iii color science is far better than previous model.
Second, if you shoot in HLG3/bt2020 with a perfect custom WB, and a color checker, colors will not be an issue. Even in neutral mode, you can get good results.

[Alex Uzan]

16 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

You've got an a7mk3 and GH5 and X-T3??

Three really nice cameras, all of the latest generation!

Maybe slow down a bit and don't buy any new cameras this year? Perhaps even sell one or two of those camera bodies and focus your lenses into just one ecosystem?

- The A7iii is my premium work horse.
I use it for everything work related, and love its IQ on video and stills as well.

- The Gh5 is used for no creative work, when I need reliability, and to work fast.
No overheating, flip screen, amazing ibis, it’s a monster for any situation.

- The X-t3 is my fun camera to use in relax mode.
But I bought a x100f for this purpose, so I’ll probably sell it.

You’re right about the eco system.
it’s my main reason to think about the P4K : EF lenses.

I could replace my A7iii by a Eos R 2, and would have only one lenses mount for my 3 cameras.

[Thomas Hill]

6 minutes ago, Alex Uzan said:

- The A7iii is my premium work horse.
I use it for everything work related, and love its IQ on video and stills as well.

Then why replace it?

-- The pot asked the kettle.

[Alex Uzan]

2 minutes ago, Thomas Hill said:

Then why replace it?

-- The pot asked the kettle.

As I said in the first post :

Quote

I love the Image quality the A7iii can produce, but don't really like using it.
(Can't add a monitor without losing Face detection, can't record externally without losing the a7iii live view). And I can't have fun grading with 8bits.

But You’re right, I’m being picky for small reasons.
Maybe it’s the new year GAS ?

[kye]

48 minutes ago, Alex Uzan said:

I only have the 12-35 2.8 mkII, and the 25 1.7.
Since I only use the GH5 for boring stuff like events, I haven’t put my money on lenses.

About the Apsc EF mount, I’m sure someone will release a speedbooster to enjoy FF lenses.

I’m not sure about that.
what I usually read, is that for most, sony color science is not on par with Canon or Fuji. And with the 8bits limitation, it seems difficult to correct it properly.

I personally disagree with that.
First, the A7iii color science is far better than previous model.
Second, if you shoot in HLG3/bt2020 with a perfect custom WB, and a color checker, colors will not be an issue. Even in neutral mode, you can get good results.

I’m confused - you said you like the image you get from the A7iii and don’t really like the image you get from the GH5.

I’m also not clear on what you’re trying to achieve?

[Alex Uzan]

10 minutes ago, kye said:

I’m confused - you said you like the image you get from the A7iii and don’t really like the image you get from the GH5.

I’m also not clear on what you’re trying to achieve?

Yes I like the A7iii image, far more than the one from the GH5. So I use the A7iii for any creative content, and the GH5 for anything else.

What I would like to achieve, is simplify my gear.
1) Replace my A7iii for stills, by a EOS R2 with Ef lenses
2) Replace my A7iii for video by a bmpcc with EF lenses
3) keep my gh5 and use it with EF lenses

One lenses mount to rule them all ?

[IronFilm]

2 hours ago, Alex Uzan said:

I only have the 12-35 2.8 mkII, and the 25 1.7.

Those are two solid starting lenses for MFT!
 

2 hours ago, Alex Uzan said:

About the Apsc EF mount, I’m sure someone will release a speedbooster to enjoy FF lenses.

ha! And someone will invent an antigravity machine? 

Physics say: NO

I regard a good EF to EF focal reducer to be about as approximately likely as a widely available antigravity machine. 

 

2 hours ago, Alex Uzan said:

I could replace my A7iii by a Eos R 2, and would have only one lenses mount for my 3 cameras.

Neither a7mk3 or EOS R have a native EF mount, so I don't see your point here at all in dropping down to the inferior EOS R

 

1 hour ago, Alex Uzan said:

One lenses mount to rule them all ?

I kinda do that with Nikon F Mount

(although, I've got one or two lenses from almost every lens mount now it seems, even PL!)

[kye]

9 hours ago, Alex Uzan said:

Yes I like the A7iii image, far more than the one from the GH5. So I use the A7iii for any creative content, and the GH5 for anything else.

What I would like to achieve, is simplify my gear.
1) Replace my A7iii for stills, by a EOS R2 with Ef lenses
2) Replace my A7iii for video by a bmpcc with EF lenses
3) keep my gh5 and use it with EF lenses

One lenses mount to rule them all ?

I agree with the desire for simplicity and also having one set of lenses, but there are some significant challenges to this approach:

• Having a single set of lenses that will work across multiple sensor sizes is difficult as the crop factor difference makes the lenses different focal lengths.  If you're planning to mix footage from the different cameras then you'll get different 'looks' from the same lenses (the smaller crop factor will reveal the resolution limitations on the glass and the larger sensor will reveal the problems on the edges of the image circle from that lens).  Even if you aren't planning on matching footage from multiple cameras, it still makes it difficult to get an ideal set as there aren't many rectilinear FF lenses that are wide enough to be a wide on a crop sensor (a 16mm is a 20mm lens on the GH5 and that's with the 0.64x SB so will be longer with any other configuration)
• You seem to be attached to face detection (you listed it in your post) but the GH5 has poor AF and BM have no AF-C
• etc..

Reading between the lines a bit, I suspect you're like the rest of us in that you want a camera that does everything, but unfortunately it just doesn't exist.  Almost every discussion on these forums is about this issue - either us getting annoyed at the manufacturers for not making it, refusing to acknowledge that it doesn't exist, refusing to compromise, buying more equipment out of a hope that it will somehow magically side-step the issue, or talking about what the various compromises are that we have made.

I'm no different.  I started out wanting great AF and lamenting Canon for not having real 1080, and I shortlisted many cameras and did all sorts of testing and evaluation before realising what compromises I was willing to make and what priority each factor was for me and how I shoot.  I ended up with a GH5 and native fully-manual lenses because that was the combo that suited my preferences best, but the A7iii + 24-105mm F4 lens was the runner up option and I was only able to come up with a better option by dropping AF completely.  

My advice is to accept that no perfect camera exists, prioritise what you want then work out what equipment fits that the best.  Or, if I put it a little differently, work out your priorities BEFORE buying the gear, because I can guarantee you that if you buy the gear without doing it then you will still do it afterwards.

and here's an observation for consideration - you're rejecting video from the GH5 and the A7iii as a hybrid camera.  Both of these are in the top 3 options available for the situations you're using them for, and many would argue that they're the best in their categories, so I'd suggest that rejecting them is more about your expectations than it is about what is available in the marketplace.

[Mark Romero 2]

17 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Once Sigma rolls out their full line up of Sigma lenses for L Mount then that will drop the costs of the L system a lot. 

Yes, but... there's still no road map for something like a 50mm f/1.8. The only thing on the road map is for a 50mm f/1.4. Sigma is probably going to charge $800+ for their 50mm f/1.4 , and the panasonic version is over $2K ?

[Alex Uzan]

10 hours ago, kye said:

I agree with the desire for simplicity and also having one set of lenses, but there are some significant challenges to this approach:

• Having a single set of lenses that will work across multiple sensor sizes is difficult as the crop factor difference makes the lenses different focal lengths.  If you're planning to mix footage from the different cameras then you'll get different 'looks' from the same lenses (the smaller crop factor will reveal the resolution limitations on the glass and the larger sensor will reveal the problems on the edges of the image circle from that lens).  Even if you aren't planning on matching footage from multiple cameras, it still makes it difficult to get an ideal set as there aren't many rectilinear FF lenses that are wide enough to be a wide on a crop sensor (a 16mm is a 20mm lens on the GH5 and that's with the 0.64x SB so will be longer with any other configuration)
• You seem to be attached to face detection (you listed it in your post) but the GH5 has poor AF and BM have no AF-C
• etc..

Reading between the lines a bit, I suspect you're like the rest of us in that you want a camera that does everything, but unfortunately it just doesn't exist.  Almost every discussion on these forums is about this issue - either us getting annoyed at the manufacturers for not making it, refusing to acknowledge that it doesn't exist, refusing to compromise, buying more equipment out of a hope that it will somehow magically side-step the issue, or talking about what the various compromises are that we have made.

I'm no different.  I started out wanting great AF and lamenting Canon for not having real 1080, and I shortlisted many cameras and did all sorts of testing and evaluation before realising what compromises I was willing to make and what priority each factor was for me and how I shoot.  I ended up with a GH5 and native fully-manual lenses because that was the combo that suited my preferences best, but the A7iii + 24-105mm F4 lens was the runner up option and I was only able to come up with a better option by dropping AF completely.  

My advice is to accept that no perfect camera exists, prioritise what you want then work out what equipment fits that the best.  Or, if I put it a little differently, work out your priorities BEFORE buying the gear, because I can guarantee you that if you buy the gear without doing it then you will still do it afterwards.

and here's an observation for consideration - you're rejecting video from the GH5 and the A7iii as a hybrid camera.  Both of these are in the top 3 options available for the situations you're using them for, and many would argue that they're the best in their categories, so I'd suggest that rejecting them is more about your expectations than it is about what is available in the marketplace.

That’s a very interesting observation, thank you.
And what you say is probably true.

There is no perfect camera. Even if every new one seems very close to be.
That’s why we spend so much time talking and reading on this forum, instead of shooting with the gear we already have ?

It’s true that I’m very satisfied with the A7iii and the GH5. They’re perfect for what I need from them.

But beside that, I’m planning to do more short films this year, and I am seduced by the idea of a true Cinema camera, and to begin to work in manual focus.
Of course I could already do that with a mc11+ cine lenses on the A7iii, and see how it goes. Seems safer.

[Silenkiller]

ive been in this boat for awhile. ive tried just about every camera out there. i need 4k60p.. soo i eventually settled with the blackmagic 4k's... but now I miss the full frame bokeh and my workflow is insane having to CC braw.. FML so now im on a panny s1r and mm the bokeh is back baby and IBIS is incredible but now im stuck with a 15min recording limit and only 8bit.. WTF. so now im thinking it might be time to just bite the bullet and get the 1dxm3 so i can have canon color science right out the gate and FF bokeh. 

[Alex Uzan]

Oh boy ?

Have you tried a speedboster with EF lenses to get the fullframe bokeh ?
Some video I saw on youtube were really impressive.

[Silenkiller]

1 minute ago, Alex Uzan said:

Oh boy ?

Have tou tried a speedboster with EF lenses to get the fullframe bokeh ?
Some video I saw on youtube were really impressive.

yeah i did, that helped a good bit but it was/is still noticeable to me in specific situations i keep running into. but i mean this is a total style choice right.