Mako Sports Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 1 hour ago, Andrew Reid said: The laptop screen is just an example, I am talking about shooting in a room with mixed light sources. Sony can't handle it. It is total shit. 8 years of fucking it up and still nobody fired. If it was "total shit" Sony wouldn't be no.1 in full frame camera sales. ? Before some salty canon shooter tries to @ me saying i'm wrong - https://www.bcnretail.com/market/detail/20191124_146544.html&SAR https://www.digitalcameraworld.com/news/sony-wins-mirrorless-race-beating-canon-and-nikon-for-2019-full-frame-sales https://www.techradar.com/news/sony-conquers-canon-and-nixes-nikon-in-the-full-frame-mirrorless-market https://fstoppers.com/news/sony-just-muscled-its-way-top-spot-full-frame-camera-sales-433921 SRV1981 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super8 Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 2 hours ago, Mako Sports said: If it was "total shit" Sony wouldn't be no.1 in full frame camera sales. ? Before some salty canon shooter tries to @ me saying i'm wrong - https://www.bcnretail.com/market/detail/20191124_146544.html&SAR https://www.digitalcameraworld.com/news/sony-wins-mirrorless-race-beating-canon-and-nikon-for-2019-full-frame-sales https://www.techradar.com/news/sony-conquers-canon-and-nixes-nikon-in-the-full-frame-mirrorless-market https://fstoppers.com/news/sony-just-muscled-its-way-top-spot-full-frame-camera-sales-433921 I would kindly tell Andrew if he is wrong but he is 100% correct in his assessment of Sony color. Sony sales are not based on Sony color and Sony shooters have nothing to compare it with except what they've shot from Sony. So many Sony photographers have stopped caring or able to see good color because they're blinded by brand loyalty. I am not a Canon shooter, yet. Arri and Canon have the best color by a mile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mako Sports Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 10 minutes ago, Super8 said: So many Sony photographers have stopped caring or able to see good color because they're blinded by brand loyalty. Lool I guess your correct ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super8 Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 You're kinda doing that in this thread. So ya. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mako Sports Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 13 minutes ago, Super8 said: You're kinda doing that in this thread. So ya. Lets not forget the color is subjective but sure bud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super8 Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 20 minutes ago, Mako Sports said: Lets not forget the color is subjective but sure bud. Where does that come from? I'm asking for a friend? If you apply a LUT or grade and going for a "look", then yes it's subjective. Tell me if I'm wrong, if you camera is set up and exposed the best it can be for a given shot and you capture a beautiful scene with perfect light and subject, isn't your camera suppose to capture what we see in real life, first? That's what a stills or video camera is suppose to do at the very least. Nothing subjective about capturing the colors that we see in real-life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mako Sports Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 14 minutes ago, Super8 said: Where does that come from? I'm asking for a friend? If you apply a LUT or grade and going for a "look", then yes it's subjective. Tell me if I'm wrong, if you camera is set up and exposed the best it can be for a given shot and you capture a beautiful scene with perfect light and subject, isn't your camera suppose to capture what we see in real life, first? That's what a stills or video camera is suppose to do at the very least. Nothing subjective about capturing the colors that we see in real-life. I said earlier in this thread that Sony is the most accurate color wise?? Did you not see that? "Good is subjective, accurate isn't." - I should have said originally, apologies If I confused you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Collins Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 1 hour ago, Super8 said: I would kindly tell Andrew if he is wrong but he is 100% correct in his assessment of Sony color. Sony sales are not based on Sony color and Sony shooters have nothing to compare it with except what they've shot from Sony. So many Sony photographers have stopped caring or able to see good color because they're blinded by brand loyalty. I am not a Canon shooter, yet. Arri and Canon have the best color by a mile. The 'brand loyalty' argument is both naive and simplistic. Afterall, almost by definition, a Sony user has 'switched' from another brand over the past 5 years. The fact is that Sony has a lot of strengths for photography especially mirrorless - it just so happens that 'color' isnt one of them. Also straight out of camera color isnt that important to most photographers as with raw it is always something that you can easily adjust in post. And for those that straight out of camera color is important - they probably arent using Sony. My feeling with Sony though is that their color problems are mostly to do with their 'auto white balance'.... noone and SRV1981 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mako Sports Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 1 minute ago, Robert Collins said: My feeling with Sony though is that their color problems are mostly to do with their 'auto white balance'.... I agree, AWB on Sony still needs work. noone 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super8 Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 11 minutes ago, Robert Collins said: The 'brand loyalty' argument is both naive and simplistic. Afterall, almost by definition, a Sony user has 'switched' from another brand over the past 5 years. The fact is that Sony has a lot of strengths for photography especially mirrorless - it just so happens that 'color' isnt one of them. Also straight out of camera color isnt that important to most photographers as with raw it is always something that you can easily adjust in post. And for those that straight out of camera color is important - they probably arent using Sony. My feeling with Sony though is that their color problems are mostly to do with their 'auto white balance'.... Sony makes good cameras out side of color. You can't argue RAW stills and straight out of camera color and ignore Sony video color. ----------- So Sony AWB is the issue? It might be a little deeper and complicated. Other companies are using Sony sensors and getting great color. That should worry every Sony user. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Collins Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 1 minute ago, Super8 said: Sony makes good cameras out side of color. You can't argue RAW stills and straight out of camera color and ignore Sony video color. Well in the quote from you - you mention 'Sony photographers' so in a sense I can. Sony's success is really built around 'photographers' rather than videographers as I see it. Clearly for video guys out of camera color is way more important. But my real point is this. I dont think there are swathes of delusional Sony users out there believing that Sony's color is great much in the same way as I dont think their are swathes of Panasonic users out there thinking their cameras have great autofocus. noone 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Django Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 Panasonic fanboys will tell ya: Real Men don’t use AF. Canon fanboys will say: FF is overrated, crop brings you closer to S35 ciné standards. Sony fanboys over any criticism: My favorite company is #1. Na-na-nana-na. Super8, aaa123jc, EthanAlexander and 3 others 1 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 1 hour ago, Django said: Panasonic fanboys will tell ya: Real Men don’t use AF. Canon fanboys will say: FF is overrated, crop brings you closer to S35 ciné standards. Sony fanboys over any criticism: My favorite company is #1. Na-na-nana-na. Nikon fanboys: but we do better stills! And we were first for HDSLRs.... why oh why has the filmmaking community forgotten us? ? Fujifilm fanboys: You want IBIS?? Ummm errr... look over there, we've got the X-H1! It's all good, stop hassling us about IBIS, if you want it, we've got it. Oh, you want a bigger sensor? Ummm errr.... look over there, we've got the GFX 100! Now please stop hassling us, and just appreciate the pretty Fuji colors :-) Samsung fanboys: yes, we know it is 2020 (and we've technically be so called "dead" for years), but we're still THE BEST! Pentax fanboys: who? Edit, a recent update for Nikon: Nikon fanboys in 2019 (errr... and 2020, and... when is it going to arrive???): but we have RAW! (errrr.... "soon", eventually, one day, sometime?) aaa123jc 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Hill Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 6 hours ago, IronFilm said: Pentax fanboys: who? Pentax fanboys: Even WE have IBIS! IronFilm, aaa123jc and Mako Sports 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 7 minutes ago, Thomas Hill said: Pentax fanboys: Even WE have IBIS! We identified the one and only Pentax user on EOSHD Thomas Hill and EthanAlexander 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noone Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 13 hours ago, Super8 said: . Sony sales are not based on Sony color and Sony shooters have nothing to compare it with except what they've shot from Sony. Seriously? MOST Sony shooters have come from other brands as photographers. Many are not JUST Sony shooters (I only have cameras from Canon, Fuji, Sony, Panasonic currently but have used Pentax, Nikon Olympus and more...many of those are little P&S rubbish but i am on my 14th ILC currently and only four have been Sony. Sure there must be Sony users NOW that have not used anything else but that aint true for all. That said, colour is subjective and many have grown up with Canon colour and that is pleasing to many people even if it is not accurate (again, I set my canon cameras to vivid for video and jpeg usually if not using RAW for stills). Andrew DOES have a point though I look on it as mainly just being still a bit too red in AWB Many Sony users can download the Live view grading app and have greater colour choice in camera than probably anyone (not the newer highest end cameras that can not use apps though for some reason). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super8 Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 1 hour ago, noone said: Seriously? MOST Sony shooters have come from other brands as photographers. Many are not JUST Sony shooters (I only have cameras from Canon, Fuji, Sony, Panasonic currently but have used Pentax, Nikon Olympus and more...many of those are little P&S rubbish but i am on my 14th ILC currently and only four have been Sony. Sure there must be Sony users NOW that have not used anything else but that aint true for all. That said, colour is subjective and many have grown up with Canon colour and that is pleasing to many people even if it is not accurate (again, I set my canon cameras to vivid for video and jpeg usually if not using RAW for stills). Andrew DOES have a point though I look on it as mainly just being still a bit too red in AWB Many Sony users can download the Live view grading app and have greater colour choice in camera than probably anyone (not the newer highest end cameras that can not use apps though for some reason). Most of these users are not serious photographers or videographers either. If they do video then they know how much work goes into fixing Sony color. I've seen professional photographers that use Sony and post work with horrible unnatural skin tones that can't be fixed by shooting RAW. Sony is not being used by serious professionals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Hill Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 1 hour ago, IronFilm said: We identified the one and only Pentax user on EOSHD Ha! Naw, just pointing out their one claim to fame. But @Mattias Burling's videos make them look pretty good. The same way nearly every camera he makes a video about looks good (for photography). Super8 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted January 13, 2020 Author Administrators Share Posted January 13, 2020 I think the Pentax K1 and K5 are superb stills cameras. Ergonomics tip top. Good IBIS It's amazing though that in 2020 Pentax still hasn't entered the 4K game!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 6 hours ago, noone said: Many Sony users can download the Live view grading app and have greater colour choice in camera than probably anyone (not the newer highest end cameras that can not use apps though for some reason). I feel like this is the MAJOR missing opportunity that all the camera companies are missing out on. Open up their cameras to the maximum extent, let people put any of their own apps on it. Just look at how much better smartphones are than the "feature phones" which went before them! Who'd buy today a "smartphone" which can't install any new apps?? 5 hours ago, Thomas Hill said: But @Mattias Burling's videos make them look pretty good. The same way nearly every camera he makes a video about looks good (for photography). @Mattias Burling should do the Barbie Cam as well one day. noone 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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